fulltimestudent

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Posts by fulltimestudent

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  25

  Zoroaster spoke thus

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the following is from: cosmos, chaos and the world to come (pp.

  222-224), norman cohn.

  yale university press.

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  fulltimestudent

  Thnx Phizzy!

  Hope you enjoy many happy hours with google scholar. The only hassle you're going to find will likely be being able to access many of the academic sources. You need a good library to help you do that. Not sure where you're located, but in Australia many university libraries will let you join, but charge you. e.g. Sydney uni, charges $40 a semester and that's $160 a year. And, (grin) consider getting a portable HD to store all the stuff you then download.

  The video you've watched, I suggest you can be quite confident that any ideas presented are partly tradition and partly time-modified belief. No religion will be unchanged over time. Early Christians would be lost in both a Catholic Cathedral and a Kingdom Hall, and contemporary Zoroastrians will believe things that are different from ancient beliefs. As the saying goes, Change is Constant.

  --------------------------------------------

  I was checking out images of 'fire temples' this morning and my search threw up this Pinterest page:

  https://www.pinterest.com.au/mazdayasna/fire-temples/

  There could be more, but since Pinterest disfellowshipped* me, (haha) I get a few roadblocks in looking for stuff on that site.

  Also there was this longish article ( I havn't checked out the web-site) titled- Is there a network of sacred fires across the Himalayas and Central Asia? From Baku to Nepal and back.

  Link: http://www.austriaca.at/0xc1aa5576%200x00358452.pdf

  Maybe Zoroastrian influence is greater than imagined.

  But, most intriguing to me (it set me off to investigate the changing religious beliefs of the ancient Sogdians, who at one stage were the major traders on the ancient East-West Trade Network, now called the Silk Road).

  From a web-site called Quartz India, " The forgotten history of how ancient Zoroastrians helped create the old Silk Road." Link: https://qz.com/india/987379/the-forgotten-history-of-how-ancient-zoroastrians-helped-create-the-old-silk-route/

  The Sogdians even attempted to take China over (during the Tang Dynasty) and so weakened that dynasty that it eventually collapsed leading to 50 years of chaos (known as the Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms era) until a new strong central authority (the Song Dynasty) established itself.

  To understand their full influence in China, check out this article from the (USA) Smithsonian-Freer/Sackler group, "The Sogdians- Influencers on the Silk Road." Link: https://sogdians.si.edu/the-sogdians-abroad/

  
  
• 
  25

  Zoroaster spoke thus

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the following is from: cosmos, chaos and the world to come (pp.

  222-224), norman cohn.

  yale university press.

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  fulltimestudent

  And you can open a window and view some of the past on this Youtube video (made by Journeyman Pictures )

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYTskBBCeIg

  And a good way to find better quality information is by search via google Scholar.

  I used google scholar tp search and the following pages is the result(s):

  https://scholar.google.com/scholar?start=10&q=ZOROASTRIANISM+%27AND.+WESTERN+CULTURE&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5
  
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  25

  Zoroaster spoke thus

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the following is from: cosmos, chaos and the world to come (pp.

  222-224), norman cohn.

  yale university press.

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  fulltimestudent

  
  

  Zoroastrian Faith: Tradition and Modern Research, by S.A.Nigosian (Publisher- McGill-Queen's University Press )

  The Amazon web-site description of this book: The Zoroastrian Faith is organized around five themes: an account of Zoroaster's life and work; discussion of the development and spread of Zoroastrianism from its beginnings to the present; description of the sacred writings and religious documents of the faith; an analysis of the basic Zoroastrian beliefs and their influence on Judaism, Christianity, and Islam; and a description of the prescribed observances. In this historical and analytical study, S.A. Nigosian cuts through these problems to present a concise, systematic survey of Zoroastrianism. This book will intrigue scholars and general readers alike. A glossary and bibliography are provided as aids for further study.

  If it interest you, you can read parts for one hour on the Internet Archive:

  https://archive.org/details/zoroastrianfaith0000unse/page/10/mode/2up
  
• 
  25

  Zoroaster spoke thus

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the following is from: cosmos, chaos and the world to come (pp.

  222-224), norman cohn.

  yale university press.

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  fulltimestudent

  Doug Mason: (QUOTE) "The "Judaism" of the "Old Testament" is not the Judaism of Jesus and his contemporaries. Much took place during the intervening centuries."

  Well said Doug. The more we study, not just Judeo-christian religon, but ALL Eurasian religions, the more we will become aware of the cross-cultural influences evident in each religion.

  The same goes for Zoroastrianism. There seems to be evidence that it too underwent modifications in its thought and beliefs. For those who wish to know a little more, Richard Folz's, 'Religions of the Silk Road,' (Second edition, 2010) has a reasonably brief summary of Zoroastrianism's development and its influence on the development of Judaism (See Ch 2, 'Religion and Trade in Ancient Eurasia.' )

  Zoroaster, may have been a contemporary of Moses, both promoted something like monotheism (the Egyptian Pharaoh, Akhenaton may also have done the same and perhaps lived around the same era). The god that Zoroaster promoted was Ahura Mazda (See https://www.ancient.eu/Ahura_Mazda/ ).

  Before Zoroaster lived, beliefs were prevalent in Iranian influenced areas? That's not completely clear, but likely beliefs werre similar, as essentially Zoroaster was a reformer. Iranian's generally had a common pantheon, perhaps with minor variations of belief, including myths and symbols. Likely 'fire temples' with a continually burning sacred flame (like many war memorials today) existed before (and after) Zoroaster's time. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_in_ancient_Iranian_culture )

  Beliefs may also have varied after Zoroaster's time, as the religion was first codified from the the third century C.E. And, that's roughly the time that rabbinical Judaism and Christianity began a period of codification. The codification of Zoroastrianism began in the era when the Sasanian's had taken over the Empire from the Parthian's, which may indicate that religion was an issue in the competition between the Christian Roman Empire and the Sasanian (Iranian) Empire.

  There's a lot more that we can know about this religion, and a lot we do not know. but I'll leave it there.
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  6

  Koreans Becoming Disillusioned with christianity

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  at the start of sydney's lockdown, family gossip told me that a relative who is a pastor, was telling his church members, "you cant catch the coronavirus in church.

  "i've hear nothing since, but its interesting that in south korea, a major outbreak was traced to a south korean church that had organised a series of recruiting campaigns in china's wuhan city.. .

  now, the hongkong based newspaper, the south china morning post (one of the best informed news outlets in asia) says that south koreans are getting pissed off withe the jesus mob.

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  fulltimestudent

  Intropist posted: "I know Korean people are super religious. They are not gonna be changed so easily by such a thing like the Corona pandemic impact or something."

  Were you being sarcastic? If so, I apologise for dissecting your comment.

  A Pew research comment (August 12, 2014) noted: (Quote) "South Korea has no majority religious group. Its population includes a plurality of people with no religious affiliation (46%) and significant shares of Christians (29%) and Buddhists (23%). South Korea’s current president, Park Geun-hye, is an atheist with connections to Buddhism and Catholicism, according to the Council on Foreign Relations. (See 1)"

  On that basis, your statement, (as above) should have read, "Some Koreans are super religious," because, clearly the number of Koreans who have no stated religious affiliation (i.e.46%) is not insignificant.

  Interestingly. only one year later, a Wikipedia entry (See 2) claims that the 2015 national census gave the following information. (Quote) "Religion in South Korea is diverse. The majority of South Koreans (56.1%, as of the 2015 national census) are irreligious. Christianity and Buddhism are the dominant confessions among those who affiliate with a formal religion. Protestantism represents (19.7%) of the total population, Korean Buddhism (15.5%), and Catholicism (7.9%). A small percentage of South Koreans (0.8% in total) are members of other religions, including Won Buddhism, Confucianism, Cheondoism, Daesun Jinrihoe, Islam, Daejongism, Jeungsanism and Orthodox Christianity" (See 3)

  That 'some' Koreans are suoer religious is true, as the history of catholicism in Korea can demonstrate, and as seen in this image portraying Korean Catholic martyrs who died for their faith (See 4)

  
  

  So, yes. some Koreans were and are super-religious in the same way that some JWs are "super-religious" and died for their religion (refusing blood transfusions).

  -------------------------------------

  1. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/08/12/6-facts-about-christianity-in-south-korea/#:~:text=1South%20Korea%20has%20no,%25)%20and%20Buddhists%20(23%25).
  

  2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_South_Korea

  3. "성, 연령 및 종교별 인구 - 시군구" [Population by Gender, Age, and Religion - City/Country]. Korean Statistical Information Service (in Korean). 2015. Retrieved 17 March 2018.

  4. Quote: "The Korean Martyrs were the victims of religious persecution against Catholic Christians during the 19th century in Korea. Between 8,000 - 10,000 Korean Christians were killed during this period, 103 of whom were canonized en masse in May 1984." (link) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Martyrs
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  6

  Koreans Becoming Disillusioned with christianity

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  at the start of sydney's lockdown, family gossip told me that a relative who is a pastor, was telling his church members, "you cant catch the coronavirus in church.

  "i've hear nothing since, but its interesting that in south korea, a major outbreak was traced to a south korean church that had organised a series of recruiting campaigns in china's wuhan city.. .

  now, the hongkong based newspaper, the south china morning post (one of the best informed news outlets in asia) says that south koreans are getting pissed off withe the jesus mob.

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  fulltimestudent

  At the start of Sydney's lockdown, family gossip told me that a relative who is a Pastor, was telling his church members, "You cant catch the coronavirus in church."I've hear nothing since, but its interesting that in South Korea, a major outbreak was traced to a South Korean church that had organised a series of recruiting campaigns in China's Wuhan city.

  
  
  

  Now, the Hongkong based newspaper, The South China Morning Post (one of the best informed news outlets in Asia) says that South Koreans are getting pissed off withe the Jesus mob. Its interesting, because Korea was one of the only East Asian nations, that the 17th century catholic missionaries (who were based in Beijing) were able to make many converts. Today, some 30% of South Koreans claim to be Christians (maybe 7 or 8% of that 30% are Catholic).

  Here's the SCMP's claims:

  South Korea’s Christians losing faith amid coronavirus outbreaks linked to churches, pastors say.

  • Church-linked coronavirus infections have led the public image of churches to fall drastically in South Korea
  • Christianity has become more unpopular over the years, due in part to church leaders getting into trouble and a view that the religion promotes old-school values, pastors say
  • It included this video:
  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=7&v=fVW0M53Tdjc&feature=emb_logo
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  • and this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=10&v=14rvNZWvGEY&feature=emb_logo
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  • If you want to read all the SCMP had to say, the link is:
  • cmp.com/week-asia/health-environment/article/3100521/coronavirus-south-koreas-christians-losing-faith-amid?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=share_widget&utm_campaign=3100521&fbclid=IwAR0GPd1Ob1IksPgVtz85I0rHWCllwN75KDEsZlq_uzdjmrnFc9LET8vvRzo
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  41

  Is There a Higher Conscious

  by LetTheTruthBeKnown in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  most of the individuals here from what i have read have gravitated to believing in evolution for various reasons and no longer have a belief in a creator.. the questions begs though, is there a higher conscious in the universe than mankind's.

  i am sure everyone agrees that animals are conscious, but to what extent can they reason?.

  here is the link to dr. rupert sheldrake's - is the sun conscious.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfhsobpja8a.

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  fulltimestudent

  Anna Marina said: "Jehovah would never approve that which is harmful to those who love him and their fellow man.."

  So let the mythical YHWH be judged out of his own mouth. Get your bible and read - (2 Samuel 12:10-18 ESV)

  "10 Now therefore the sword shall never depart from your house, because you have despised me and have taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your wife.’ 11 Thus says the Lord, ‘Behold, I will raise up evil against you out of your own house. And I will take your wives before your eyes and give them to your neighbor, and he shall lie with your wives in the sight of this sun. 12 For you did it secretly, gbut I will do this thing before all Israel and before the sun.’ ” 13 hDavid said to Nathan, i“I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, j“The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die. 14 Nevertheless, because by this deed you have utterly kscorned the Lord,2 the child who is born to you shall die.”"

  So David sinned, but will YHWH punish guilty David. NO! old YHWH decides( without even asking David's wives whether they consented to being raped) to punish David's wives, by letting them be raped publicly. Was that an example of YHWHS morals? And, I have not even touched on YHWH's actions concerning the subsequent baby, which surely must count as an act of murder. And did you also note David's actions? During the child's sickness, David acts repentedly, but as soon as the child is dead, David acts normally again. That's barely human.

  And can YHWH defend himself against charges that he permitted slavery? Let's see?

  On the second issue raised, slavery, most ancient 'cultures,' practised slavery. The economies of nations across Eurasia were slave powered economies. Aristotle (greek philosopher) even argued in his "Politics" that some humans were 'natural' slaves. He further argued that a slave was a "piece of property," and owning a slave was like owning a tool. So you're likely thinking at this point, what's all that got to do with the bible?

  The reason you wont find "Jesus" saying 'free the slaves,' is that firstly, from the beginning the Israelites were portrayed in the biblical stories as using war prisoners as slaves, and even selling each other into slavery.

  first century CE, the Jews had (Since conquered by Alexander the Great) had become thoroughly hellenised and would have easily seen a 'slave' as an item of property. In fact, during the next few hundred years, the Jewish Talmud set out rules for slaves, and Jewish traders continued for centuries to buy and sell slaves.

  So maybe your not seeing the world as Jesus saw the world. He likely thought of slavery as 'natural' - just as Aristotle thought it was natural. (Aristotle does give his reasons for his perspective)
  

  But did that make it OK? It may be true that christian's later spoke against slavery, but it took a long time for churches to act against slavery. So long in fact, that there seems no reason to believe that churches in general were guided by either divine law or divine inspiration to oppose slavery
  
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  3

  Early Jerusalem - Not Such a Big Deal - Archaeological overview of Archaeological Discoveries in Early Jerusalem

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this overview is from dw news*, a german public broadcasting service.

  i thought it may be interesting to know that early jerusalem was not as large as some have thought.. .

  https://www.dw.com/en/ancient-jerusalem-smaller-than-believed/a-54671258?fbclid=iwar3svoex_h_2yru0t-wnmnvweyujoxactz-jgglgmdr16vcjoahvl_e8ow4.

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  fulltimestudent

  This overview is from DW News*, A German Public Broadcasting Service. I thought it may be interesting to know that early Jerusalem was not as large as some have thought.

  
  

  https://www.dw.com/en/ancient-jerusalem-smaller-than-believed/a-54671258?fbclid=IwAR3svOEx_h_2yRu0T-wNMnvWeyuJOxaCTz-jgglGmdR16vcjoAhvL_e8ow4

  *DW is a German public international broadcaster funded by the German federal tax budget.
  
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  7

  How Do You Get to Have A God For A Father?

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the answer is simple, a god must impregnate your mother.. i gave this some thought, as i read the following national geographic article, having had my mind thoroughly impregnated by holy spirit in the 40 years i spent as a temple slave, serving the chief god yhwh and his side-kick jesus, who, unlike me, had been completely begotten by holy spirit.. so with interest, i read about olympias, the mother of alexander the great, who told her son (alexander) that he had been begotten by the chief god zeus, who had turned up on night in her bed and had accepted his advances,.

  https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/magazine/2019/11-12/queen-olympias-ancient-macedonia/.

  olympias is an interesting woman.

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  fulltimestudent

  Carmichael, Thnx for you response and the useful reminder of Genesis 6:1-4, that biblical reference to 'mysterious' erotic divinities.

  My own comment was simply to show what may be another possible example of an inter-cultural Hellenistic influence among the people living in what we may still call Palestine.

  Since Jesus wrote nothing (that we know of) we are dependent on the writings of his followers in order to know anything about the early days of Christianity. All of his first followers were, of course, culturally Jewish, but as we are gradually learning, a Jewishness that had been influenced by the around 300 years of a dominant Hellenism. I was attempting to provoke thought concerning my original post. Why was it neccessary to think of Jesus in terms of a virgin conception? Were people (jewish) aware of the legends about Alexander, and therefore, the first Christians started to describe Jesus in terms that elevated him about ordinary men?
• 
  7

  How Do You Get to Have A God For A Father?

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the answer is simple, a god must impregnate your mother.. i gave this some thought, as i read the following national geographic article, having had my mind thoroughly impregnated by holy spirit in the 40 years i spent as a temple slave, serving the chief god yhwh and his side-kick jesus, who, unlike me, had been completely begotten by holy spirit.. so with interest, i read about olympias, the mother of alexander the great, who told her son (alexander) that he had been begotten by the chief god zeus, who had turned up on night in her bed and had accepted his advances,.

  https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/magazine/2019/11-12/queen-olympias-ancient-macedonia/.

  olympias is an interesting woman.

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  fulltimestudent

  The answer is simple, a god must impregnate your mother.

  I gave this some thought, as I read the following National Geographic article, having had my mind thoroughly impregnated by holy spirit in the 40 years I spent as a temple slave, serving the Chief god YHWH and his side-kick Jesus, who, unlike me, had been completely begotten by holy spirit.

  So with interest, I read about Olympias, the mother of Alexander the Great, who told her son (Alexander) that he had been begotten by the chief god Zeus, who had turned up on night in her bed and had accepted his advances,

  https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/magazine/2019/11-12/queen-olympias-ancient-macedonia/

  Olympias is an interesting woman. In a era when society had conservative notions about women's role (not dissimilar to JW standards) women, "were supposed to be quiet, passive, stay out of public life, and maintain the family," Olympias grew up believing that the Greek hero (and demi god) Achilles had impregnated her mother resulting in her (Olympias;) birth.

  According to Plutarch (a Greek biographer) Olympias told her son, Alexander (Who became 'great') that she also had also experienced a divine sexual experience, when the chief Greek god, Zeus had turned up in her bed and impregnated her, leading to the birth of Alexander.

  Alexander's belief was pictured by the Italian artist Giulio Romano in the 16th century fresco that he created on the the wall of the Sala di Psiche of the Palazzo del Te in Mantua, Italy. In the fresco Zeus is visualised as a sea-serpent about to have intercourse with a naked Olympias.

  
  

  Did Alexander believe this? As he started his Empire building wars, he took time off to visit an oracle in the Libyan desert, where he was pronounced to be the son of the Egyptian chief god, Amon, who in Greek thought was supposed to be Zeus.

  Which set me to wondering how many young women in hellenised Judea thought their bed had been visited by a god? And, how many young men got to think that some god or the other was their real father?