Yup, I think that's the way we got the bible.
fulltimestudent
JoinedPosts by fulltimestudent
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The First Flood Story - How Much Do You Know About It?
by fulltimestudent inyou may have heard that before the genesis document (of the bible) was written there was a flood story circulating in west asia.. if your short of time, here's a 5 minute video by irving finkel discussing a flood story document written in cuneiform.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbfr-9us31k.
of course, the christian argument may be that the bible had the original (truthful) version and the cuneiform story came later.
but that's so difficult to prove.
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The First Flood Story - How Much Do You Know About It?
by fulltimestudent inyou may have heard that before the genesis document (of the bible) was written there was a flood story circulating in west asia.. if your short of time, here's a 5 minute video by irving finkel discussing a flood story document written in cuneiform.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbfr-9us31k.
of course, the christian argument may be that the bible had the original (truthful) version and the cuneiform story came later.
but that's so difficult to prove.
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fulltimestudent
Above is a section of the tablet Irving discusses.
A claim made in the Sumerian King List says: In ancient Mesopotamia, the Sumerian King List reads
After kingship came down from heaven .... the kingship was taken to Shuruppak. In Shuruppak, Ubara-Tutu became king; he ruled for 5 sars and 1 ner. In 5 cities 8 kings; they ruled for 241,200 years. Then the flood swept over.
So you can note the claim of the extraordinary long lives led by pre-flood worthies.
If you're interested in all the the legends of destructive floods, Wikipedia may be a good general view of these stories.
It says: "The Mesopotamian flood stories concern the epics of Ziusudra, Gilgamesh, and Atrahasis. The Sumerian King List relies on the flood motif to divide its history into preflood (antediluvian) and postflood periods. The preflood kings had enormous lifespans, whereas postflood lifespans were much reduced. The Sumerian flood myth found in the Deluge tablet was the epic of Ziusudra, who heard the gods' plan to destroy humanity, in response to which he constructed a vessel that delivered him from great waters.[2] In the Atrahasis version, the flood is a river flood.[3]
In the Genesis mythology of the Hebrew Bible, Yahweh decides to flood the earth because of the depth of the sinful state of mankind. Righteous Noah is given instructions to build an ark. When the ark is completed, Noah, his family, and representatives of all the animals of the earth are called upon to enter the ark. When the destructive flood begins, all life outside of the ark perishes. After the waters recede, all those aboard the ark disembark and have Yahweh's promise that he will never judge the earth with a flood again. He causes a rainbow to form as the sign of this promise.[4]
In the 19th century, Assyriologist George Smith translated the Babylonian account of a great flood. Further discoveries produced several versions of the Mesopotamian flood myth, with the account closest to that in Genesis found in a 700 BC Babylonian copy of the Epic of Gilgamesh.[5]:20 In this work, the hero Gilgameshmeets the immortal man Utnapishtim, and the latter describes how the god Ea instructed him to build a huge vessel in anticipation of a deity-created flood that would destroy the world. The vessel would save Utnapishtim, his family, his friends, and the animals.[6]
In Hindu mythology, texts such as the Satapatha Brahmana and the Puranas contain the story of a great flood,[7] wherein the Matsya Avatar of Vishnu warns the first man, Manu, of the impending flood, and also advises him to build a giant boat.[8][9][10]
In Plato's Timaeus, Timaeus says that because the Bronze race of Humans had been making wars constantly Zeus was angered and decided to punish humanity by a flood. Prometheus the Titan knew of this and told the secret to Deucalion, advising him to build an ark in order to be saved. After nine nights and days, the water started receding and the ark was landed at Mount Parnassus.[11]"In the example of Plato's story we may be noting that his version of what he had heard (or, read) was adapted to suit Greek religion and history.
Is that what the author of the Genesis document also did?
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The First Flood Story - How Much Do You Know About It?
by fulltimestudent inyou may have heard that before the genesis document (of the bible) was written there was a flood story circulating in west asia.. if your short of time, here's a 5 minute video by irving finkel discussing a flood story document written in cuneiform.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbfr-9us31k.
of course, the christian argument may be that the bible had the original (truthful) version and the cuneiform story came later.
but that's so difficult to prove.
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fulltimestudent
However, if you have a deeper interest in the topic, you may also be interested in Finkel's hour long lecture on the topic as given to The Oriental Institute:
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The First Flood Story - How Much Do You Know About It?
by fulltimestudent inyou may have heard that before the genesis document (of the bible) was written there was a flood story circulating in west asia.. if your short of time, here's a 5 minute video by irving finkel discussing a flood story document written in cuneiform.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbfr-9us31k.
of course, the christian argument may be that the bible had the original (truthful) version and the cuneiform story came later.
but that's so difficult to prove.
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fulltimestudent
You may have heard that before the Genesis document (of the bible) was written there was a flood story circulating in West Asia.
If your short of time, here's a 5 minute video by Irving Finkel discussing a Flood story document written in cuneiform.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbfr-9US31k
Of course, the Christian argument may be that the Bible had the original (truthful) version and the cuneiform story came later.
But that's so difficult to prove. We can locate the approximate time that the cuneiform version was written, but we have no ancient versions of the Genesis document that go back to that time. All the extant versions are much later.
And, if we accept the JW/WTS perspective on Genesis, i.e. that Moses wrote it based on earlier documents, we need to ask what kind of documents were they and who wrote them? The WT publication, 'Aid to Bible Understanding,' claim's Moses was born about 1593 BCE.
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BIG,Dead Place
by fulltimestudent inbig, dead place is a name a sharp-witted aussie gave to the antarctic base at mcmurdo sound, managed by uncomprehending american bureaucrats located in faraway nebraska.. you can read the origins of the name on the australian abc's web-site today:.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-30/big-dead-place-the-wikileaks-of-antarctica/9666244.
but as i read that story, i thought what a wonderfully descriptive name for nathan knorr's vision of the 'new world society' - the name of jw.com's predeccessor, and the name by which i knew the organisation of the christian witlesses of yhwh when i first got conned into thinking that i had found not only the truth, but the solution to the starving billions of this world and all the other shit that worries humankind.. but i will spare your the re-run of my wasted life in later versions of big, dead place.
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fulltimestudent
BIG, Dead Place is a name a sharp-witted Aussie gave to the Antarctic base at McMurdo Sound, managed by uncomprehending American bureaucrats located in faraway Nebraska.
You can read the origins of the name on the Australian ABC's web-site today:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-30/big-dead-place-the-wikileaks-of-antarctica/9666244
But as I read that story, I thought what a wonderfully descriptive name for Nathan Knorr's vision of the 'New World Society' - the name of JW.com's predeccessor, and the name by which I knew the organisation of the Christian Witlesses of YHWH when I first got conned into thinking that I had found not only the truth, but the solution to the starving billions of this world and all the other shit that worries humankind.
But I will spare your the re-run of my wasted life in later versions of BIG, Dead Place.
I just wanted to ask whether anyone else thinks that's a good name for YHWH's chosen few?
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Are the Christian Greek Scriptures (the NT) Jewish or Gentile?
by fulltimestudent intoday's oxford university press blog has a brief discussion by biblical scholar, ann conway-jones**, examining how we may 'see' the nt?.
"the new testament: jewish of gentile.".
conway-jones acknowledges the work of jewish scholars (for example, geza vermes) in correcting some mistaken historical christian viewpoints.
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fulltimestudent
Jewish concept of Messiah as a global CONQUEROR ‘with Jehovah’s hand being constantly supporting him in His sworn integrity’ (Isaiah 42:7).
Sure, so we are still waiting, waiting, waiting, for this Jewish hero to be the global conqueror and restorer of the the kingdom of god.
It's interesting to consider just who the author of Isaiah may have thought he was writing about, and why he considered it necessary?
We are on surer ground when we get to Daniel's prediction of a global conqueror. Written after the conquests of Alexander the Great, restless native peoples predicted the rise of a 'native' hero who would restore a local kingdom. You can find local demotic literature in Ptolemaic Egypt making similar predictions.
None of them were fulfilled in any meaningful way. That's why the tiny christian sect resorted to myth and magic with the death of Jesus, who briefly thought he was that hero.
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Chinese Scientists claim that the mountain that formed NK's Nuclear test site has collapsed.
by fulltimestudent intodays's 'south china morning post,' has the headline:.
north korea’s nuclear test site has collapsed ... and that may be why kim jong-un suspended tests.
the mountain’s collapse after a fifth blast last fall has led to the creation of a massive ‘chimney’ that could leak radioactive fallout into the air, researchers have found.. full report at: http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2143171/north-koreas-nuclear-test-site-has-collapsed-and-may-be-why-kim-jong-un?utm_source=emarsys&utm_medium=email&utm_content=20180426&utm_campaign=scmp_today&aid=190131336&sc_src=email_2221295&sc_llid=54531&sc_lid=151076047&sc_uid=z7rq3jwhwq&utm_source=emarsys&utm_medium=email.
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fulltimestudent
Irrespective of the motives of any of the major players in the Korean drama, today was rather unique as Kim Jong-un crossed the border (in the into South Korea for talks with Moon Jae-in, President of South Korea. (President Moon stepped onto the NK side for a brief moment).
The BBC reports (video):
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Chinese Scientists claim that the mountain that formed NK's Nuclear test site has collapsed.
by fulltimestudent intodays's 'south china morning post,' has the headline:.
north korea’s nuclear test site has collapsed ... and that may be why kim jong-un suspended tests.
the mountain’s collapse after a fifth blast last fall has led to the creation of a massive ‘chimney’ that could leak radioactive fallout into the air, researchers have found.. full report at: http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2143171/north-koreas-nuclear-test-site-has-collapsed-and-may-be-why-kim-jong-un?utm_source=emarsys&utm_medium=email&utm_content=20180426&utm_campaign=scmp_today&aid=190131336&sc_src=email_2221295&sc_llid=54531&sc_lid=151076047&sc_uid=z7rq3jwhwq&utm_source=emarsys&utm_medium=email.
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fulltimestudent
Todays's 'South China Morning Post,' has the Headline:
North Korea’s nuclear test site has collapsed ... and that may be why Kim Jong-un suspended tests
The mountain’s collapse after a fifth blast last fall has led to the creation of a massive ‘chimney’ that could leak radioactive fallout into the air, researchers have found.
I guess its a reasonable question that the SCMP then asks, whether that's the reason for Kim Jong-un's sudden reversal of policy?
The SCMP also points out that the 'chimney' formed by the mountain's collapse may be releasing radioactive substances into the air.
Not a very desirable thing to happen.
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Are the Christian Greek Scriptures (the NT) Jewish or Gentile?
by fulltimestudent intoday's oxford university press blog has a brief discussion by biblical scholar, ann conway-jones**, examining how we may 'see' the nt?.
"the new testament: jewish of gentile.".
conway-jones acknowledges the work of jewish scholars (for example, geza vermes) in correcting some mistaken historical christian viewpoints.
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fulltimestudent
Today's Oxford University Press blog has a brief discussion by biblical scholar, Ann Conway-Jones**, examining how we may 'see' the NT?
"The New Testament: Jewish of Gentile."
Conway-Jones acknowledges the work of Jewish scholars (for example, Geza Vermes) in correcting some mistaken historical christian viewpoints.
Quote: "In the first century, it was impossible to distinguish between what was “Jewish” and what was “Christian.” “Messiah” started as a Jewish concept, and the followers of Jesus interpreted his life, death, and resurrection within the framework provided by the Jewish scriptures."
and
"The theology of the New Testament, even its Christology, is Jewish. It represents one offshoot of the tremendous variety within Second Temple Judaism. But a complex relationship developed between the New Testament’s theology and its sociology. It turned out that its ideas had more traction among Gentiles than Jews. Paul was already aware of the ironies–hence his convoluted, horticulturally suspect, image of the wild olive shoot grafted into the cultivated olive tree (Romans 11:17-24)."
But notes,
Quote: "In the New Testament, we see the inception of the struggle between Jews and Christians over the same God. What was to be the future of the God of Abraham, Moses, Isaiah, and Jeremiah? Who knew best how to interpret the scriptures? The New Testament read Sunday by Sunday in churches is not a simple record of the Jewish Jesus and the Jewish Paul. It witnesses to the beginnings of Christian identity formation–a convoluted process whereby Jewish concepts were appropriated by outsiders. The relationship between Judaism and Christianity was skewed from the start, and the complications are still with us today."
If that discussion interests you, you can find the full article at:
**Ann Conway-Jones is an Honorary Research Fellow at the University of Birmingham and The Queen’s Foundation for Ecumenical Theological Education. She is the author of Gregory of Nyssa’s Tabernacle Imagery in its Jewish and Christian Contexts.
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How did ancients know entire Earth was covered by water?
by Bad_Wolf inentire world used to be covered by water.
i am not talking about the 'great flood', but on earth's formation itself.
the bible talks about earth being only water and then god making dry land appear.
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fulltimestudent
The author of Genesis Ch one, believed that the earth was once covered with water because that was an ancient Egyptian myth, and he borrowed the idea from the Egyptian stories he had heard.
There were many ways people living in what we now call Palestine knew the Egyptian creation myths. The Palestine area was once part of the Egyptian Empire, so strongly influenced by Egyptian culture. There was also trading contact with Egypt.
Here's a statement from a web-site on ancient Egyptian beliefs:
The Creator God's Offspring
At a time the Egyptians called Zep Tepi (the First Time), Atum created two offspring. His son, Shu, represented dry air, and his daughter, Tefnut, represented corrosive moist air. The twins symbolize two universal principles of human existence: life and right (justice).
The twins separated the sky from the waters. They produced children named Geb, the dry land, and Nut, the sky. When the primeval waters receded, a mound of earth (Geb) appeared, providing the first solid dry land for the sun god, Re, to rest. During the dynastic period, Atum was also known as Re, meaning the sun at its first rising.
https://www.historymuseum.ca/cmc/exhibitions/civil/egypt/egcr09e.shtml