to the intellectually honest witness, it seems like it often comes down to this principle.
"fine, if the witnesses aren't the truth, then show me the better answer and i'll consider it.
" and how do you deal with that?
the idea of "who else shall we go away to?" was quite common during the period of Roman rule and civil strife preceding the dates we commonly attribute to Jesus' life. And this is why I wonder if Jesus played a more political role than we give him credit for.
edit: psac btw I did not think you were being arrogant (hence the ) so no worries
to the intellectually honest witness, it seems like it often comes down to this principle.
"fine, if the witnesses aren't the truth, then show me the better answer and i'll consider it.
" and how do you deal with that?
Very few EX-JW's become "liberal christians" or Christians that forge their own path, I don't think they have the psychological make up for it. |
psac, I guess you have us all figured out then -
imo most xjws pass through liberal christianity - some decide to stop there others move on. Liberal christanity is very often the first post.
And anyway Jesus Christ means a lot more than religion. He was a radical revolutionary intent on helping the poor, he was a philosopher, he was a teacher using analogies from nature, he could also be framed as an ancient doctor. XJWS move on to all these sorts of things. The who is not a specific man in history but the person we can become even apart from religion.
source: http://www.diariotextual.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=15022:cordoba-las-victimas-de-sectas-ya-tienen-una-ley-que-las-proteja&catid=58:sociedad&itemid=181.
the english version first (my translation, sorry) and then the spanish version for anyone to check.. i believe that it would be good for someone to contact ms. maria amelia chiofalo and ms. nadia fernandez.
they would truly listen.. the legislature of cordoba, argentina, passed a law that is aimed at creating a program to assist cult victims, for which purpose an interdisciplinary team will be created with doctors, psychologists, attorneys with special knowledge on the issue, for the comprehensive study and approach to assisting victims.. .
thanks for updating us dgp. Very interesting regarding mind control and manipulation and how they stress that family cohesion and one's place in society should not be violated
| What we're dealing with here is only and exclusively the fact that these groups use manipulation methods, which methods have a specific effect, namely destroying or severely damaging the personality of the faithful, or severely damaging the faithful by severing love and social ties with their families. They also make the faithful come into conflict with society because often the idea is that the guru's law is a higher law, or is above the government law. In a democratic nation, this violates the fundamental human rights of the faithful or those in the faithful's social surroundings, and it also attempts against the legal framework", she said. |
i'm james i'm new to this forum as of today and i'm a ex-jw who was "born into the truth" and then left it officially at the age of twenty after "drifting out" of it for some time.
i'm now 34 and whilst i'm not exactly happy with the world i'm living in, i'm largely happy with my own life.. one question i've got about this forum - i didn't join for a long time because i thought it was for active jw's (based on the web-site url), not ex jw's, but then looking at the threads, it seems it is more for ex-jw's!
what is the demographic for the membership?
Hi jook
I don't want to be too specific
i'm james i'm new to this forum as of today and i'm a ex-jw who was "born into the truth" and then left it officially at the age of twenty after "drifting out" of it for some time.
i'm now 34 and whilst i'm not exactly happy with the world i'm living in, i'm largely happy with my own life.. one question i've got about this forum - i didn't join for a long time because i thought it was for active jw's (based on the web-site url), not ex jw's, but then looking at the threads, it seems it is more for ex-jw's!
what is the demographic for the membership?
hi james
Hi Curtains forgive me but what is a "New JW"? As in, not a JW?, Not Labour etc? |
we are new in that we don't know what we are yet in keeping with the sentiments of 1John3:2. We love rank and file Jehovahs witnesses but would like to see much needed changes in the leadership. Other than that we lean towards atheism which seems to be how the WTS depicts jehovah (as they make all the decisions - Jehovah does not make any nowadays), materialism (focus on the new system), keeping active in holy spirit (participating at the meetings - speaking out when moved by spirit).
i'm james i'm new to this forum as of today and i'm a ex-jw who was "born into the truth" and then left it officially at the age of twenty after "drifting out" of it for some time.
i'm now 34 and whilst i'm not exactly happy with the world i'm living in, i'm largely happy with my own life.. one question i've got about this forum - i didn't join for a long time because i thought it was for active jw's (based on the web-site url), not ex jw's, but then looking at the threads, it seems it is more for ex-jw's!
what is the demographic for the membership?
hi James
Londoner born and bred here. Nice to meet you. I am an active new JW (new as in new labour etc )
so i went to my sister's wedding this past sunday, which happened to be smack dab in the middle of a church service.
my all faithful husband told me it was a dfing offense and that he was obligated to tell the elders that i was going to a church.
i really could care less about the actual act of being df it is the fact that my husband felt the need to "turn me in".
Had to go
I'm so sorry this has happened to you. Elders are required to report everything suspicious even if it concerns their own family - it is part of the JW landscape.
If you can accept that your husband is displaying his cultist personality then it may be possible to resolve this issue for yourself in your relationship with him.
Imo it not a disfellowshipping offense to attend church for a wedding but is a conscience matter.
blacksheep
Tell the silly beggar that if he wants to run the risk of having to sit in the back row with with the DFs & DAs just so that he can be with his wife during his indoctrination sessions, then he should go right ahead and report you without even bothering to find a scripture in his Bible that demonstrates that he isn't being a right tw@ |
thankyou mouthy
when read in context karl marx was not directly attacking religion when he wrote those famous words.. .
religious distress is at the same time the expression of real distress and the protest against real distress.
religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation.
here is a wiki entry on Christopher Hitchens - lots here I can agree with (bolded). Did not realize how much I have in common with Hitchens
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Hitchens
8 ] He argues that the concept of God or a supreme being is a totalitarian belief that destroys individual freedom, and that free expression and scientific discovery should replace religion as a means of teaching ethics and defining human civilization. He wrote at length on atheism and the nature of religion in his 2007 book God Is Not Great. |
| Hitchens often speaks out against the Abrahamic religions, or what he calls "the three great monotheisms" (Judaism, Christianity and Islam). He said: "The real axis of evil is Christianity, Judaism, and Islam". |
In a June 2010 interview with the New York Times, he stated that: "I still think like a Marxist in many ways. I think the materialist conception of history is valid. I consider myself a very conservative Marxist". [ 50 ] ] |
| On the issue of abortion, Hitchens prioritizes in affirming that he believes a fetus should be regarded as an "unborn child", but opposes the overturning of Roe v. Wade and supports the development of medical abortion techniques, and fundamentally believes in access to contraceptives and reproductive rights as "the only thing that is known to cure poverty", and in order to prevent surgical abortion altogether. [ 81 ] [ 82 ] |
when read in context karl marx was not directly attacking religion when he wrote those famous words.. .
religious distress is at the same time the expression of real distress and the protest against real distress.
religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation.
wow cofty, that was an awful character assasination on Mother Theresa by Hitchens. Imo she would have done her work amongst the poor regardless of whether or not she became famous. Her fame imo results from her being used as a pawn by those who more powerful than her and who did/do have an agenda. I don't understand why Hitchens cannot see this and attacks the victim instead.
As to her jetting off to America when she was sick - how much say did she have in that?
It is probably better to see Hitchens work as a work of fiction and the Mother Theresa he depicts as a fictitious character who bears some resemblance to the real Mother Theresa - okay then, in that case I'd be prepared to consider his points as there is much validity there.
But Hitchens does not seem to criticise the political and economic structures that have always used religion to keep people anaesthetized and to build their own power bases whereas Marx does. (mind you I have not studied Marxism and am only going on what I have read on the internet. Haven't read God is not Great either and am basing my comments on what has been shared on this thread and of course on my own study of the origins of religion)
