Posts by LorenzoSmithXVII

42

How much damage has internet done against the The Watchtower Society ?

by opusdei1972 in

in the beginning of internet the society was worried about the information published exposing its falsehood.

so, i wonder how many people lost the society on account of forums and web sites like this.

.

LorenzoSmithXVII

Ironically, the internet is also "damaging" to any mind-control entity, such as the Illuminati.

45

People should learn more about the Bible flaws

by opusdei1972 in

i have noted that the main problem for those who are seduced by the watchtower society is their ignorance about the bible itself.

people who believe that the bible is the word of god usually ignore the studies on textual criticism and how scientific criteria forbid absurd stories like that of the global flood.

so, i strongly believe that students in schools need at least an obligatory course on "the bible" through the point of view of science and the textual criticism.

Let me just comment on this blanket intellectual dismissal of the Bible as a myth. At this level of academic investigation, you have to actually DISPROVE anything in the Bible. There is a bad habit of presuming if no evidence is found by archaeologists for any event then that event didn't happen. That's not the case. The lack of confirmation doesn't dismiss the event, it just remains unproven.

So if someone can actually PROVE that Adam never had intercourse with Eve, then bring it on. Otherwise, simply doubting the story until proven is just a personal choice.

Otherwise, I'd focus on the anti-Biblical BIAS out there. There is lots of archaeological confirmation of the bible's timeline from the time of the Assyrian Period down to the Persian Period. Lots of specific individuals in the Bible are mentioned in the pagan records (i.e. the Mesha Stele, Shalmaneser II, Babylonian and Persian records, etc.) In fact, I recently discovered a statue of Nehemiah from the Persian Period. He can be seen all over Persepolis following behind Xerxes and Artaxerxes (same king!) as the cupbearer. He was a prominent figure in that court. It was very delightful to see that he was also sculpted and preserved in a statue.

But those bashing the Bible always go to those Biblical references that are highly controversial or that are too early in the timeline to be confirmed by pagan histories. The Israelites didn't become an important nation in Canaan until the time of Mereneptah, who mentions them. But nothing the Bible claims is contradicted by the archaeological evidence, it's just that the earlier periods in the history of the Israelites isn't recovered in ancient records. Point being, though, acknowledge when it IS supported! The history of the Israelites from the Assyrian Period down to the Persian Period is not questioned and is reflected in the pagan records. But naysayers don't like to talk about that. They would rather claim what lacks that same level of confirmation is a basis to believe the Bible's history is not reliable.

So, YES, let's get educated. But let's stop cherry-picking and lying.

45

People should learn more about the Bible flaws

by opusdei1972 in

i have noted that the main problem for those who are seduced by the watchtower society is their ignorance about the bible itself.

people who believe that the bible is the word of god usually ignore the studies on textual criticism and how scientific criteria forbid absurd stories like that of the global flood.

so, i strongly believe that students in schools need at least an obligatory course on "the bible" through the point of view of science and the textual criticism.

LorenzoSmithXVII

The Bible vs. evolution debates have gone on for decades. I think there are some aggressive, educated fundamentalists out there who have managed to look at a few of these issues and been able to establish enough doubt for people to continue to believe in God and the Bible.

But to be more specific, there is just not a whole lot of proof you're going to find from science to support some things the Bible says and you have to thus go on faith. But noting that, there are indeed some things in place now that support the Bible that is either ignored or misunderstood by the secular world that artificially give the Bible a bad name, so bring it on! Bring on the criticisms. But next to the criticisms should be what scientists and archaeologists are lying about. Case in point, the Exodus. Per the Bible the Exodus occurred at the end of the reign of Amenhotep III. The 10 plagues actually happened and the next pharaoh became a mnotheist. What a historical confirmation of the impact of the 10 plagues. But lying scholars and dumb fundamentalists who don't know Bible chronology never get there.

So I'm all for "higher education." Let's talk about it ALL! The Bible will remain primarily unsupported by archaeology or science for certain periods. But for the periods that are, people need to know as much about that as possible. In general, from Eden to the Exodus, you have scant evidence. Between the Exodus and Sheshonq you have good evidence but lots of debate about that evidence because of uneducated guessing about dates and distorted dates. But from the time of the Assyrian Period through the Persian Period, there is lots of confirmation of events and individuals mentioned in the Bible, confirming the history found in the Bible. So, yes, let's look at that and yes lets look at what the Bible itself says and not be fooled by scholars who are incompetent or have their own agendas, like JWs who need everything to work for 1914 and the fall of Jerusalem in 607 BCE, or Bryant Wood trying to make the fall of Jericho work for his date of 1400 BC, or the "maximalists" out there trying to make the evidence point to and confirm David and Solomon at a phony date that is a half century too early. So yes, let's get educated about the Bible. Let's dismiss the false books of Esther, Ecclesiates and Song of Solomon from the Bible.

I support education. Yes. Teach everybody about the theory of evolution. But also teach those same people about Biblical fundamentalism. And for Heaven's sake, let's become smart enough to at least date the biggest event in Bible history to the right pharaoh, the Exodus at the end of the reign of Amenhotep III! When that at least happens, then the fundamentalists will start to tackle more aggressive textual criticism. Drop the dishonesty and let's talk! But without honesty, what's the point? There are liars and deceivers on both sides of this argument, I'm afraid. Turns out you need the same amount of "blind faith" not to believe the Bible as you do to believe it in many cases.

18

Where are all these New Anointed Ones Coming from?

by John Aquila in

back in the early 70s, right before 1975 we had about 7 or 8 thousand professed anointed.

cant remember the exact number.

but at every convention we were told that the end is close ---because---the number of anointed is getting smaller and smaller.

LorenzoSmithXVII

Per the Bible, all the "other sheep" were to be invited into the anointed class. That is, the vineyard workers are divided into two groups. The first to come in knew they would get the "penny" which was heavenly life. The workers work for 11 hours. Each hour is 7 years. So from the third-hour workers, they were not told what they would get, and naturally, expected something less, less than a day's wage. So this reflects the two-class system of the witnesses after 1935. 3 hours end after 21 years. 1914 + 21 + 1935. So the "other sheep" are the ones recognized as the third-hour workers, those who did not expect the "penny" that the earliest workers did. Everyone who was first a witness/Bible Student from 1914 were all of the "anointed."

But then, surprise, surprise, when the 12th hour arrived, which would be 7 years from 1991 to 1998, when the workers are paid, turns out EVERY WORKER get's the "penny"! This is a huge surprise to the first-hour workers who murmur against this. That just means the original old anointed ones were not expecting this. But technically, that means the "other sheep" who were not expecting the penny end up being invited into the heavenly class during the 12th hour from 1991-1998. The last will be first.

So, if there happens to be an increase in those partaking, that is just of those who don't understand that after Christ arrives there is no need to partake any more. You see, the Memorial was to be celebrated in the absence of Christ until he arrived. But after he arrives, he eats the first passover upon his return and then ends that ceremony! People now ask why if Christ arrived in 1914 as they claim why are they still celebrating the Passover/Memorial? Good question. Anyway, the majority of the other sheep who understand their anointing don't partake any more. But some who understand they are anointed and don't know that detail mmight insist upon partaking and thus it is expected that the actual number of the "anointed" partaking would see an increase. That's why!

So in reality, many, many, many more are of the anointed, except they know not to partake. But for those who don't quite understand it, they partake and that's the legitimate increase they are seeing.

Furthermore, the 144,000 is just ONE-TENTH of the entire number (Isa 6:13). The natural Jews make up the "root" of the kingdom tree, just 1/10th. So if the 144K make up the root of 1/10th, then the gentiles make up the 90% of the tree and thus the total number of the elect are not just 144,000 but 1,440,000! Per the Bible, of course, many chosen didn't show up and begged off and so there were lots of empty seats that had to be fulfilled by outsiders. Etc.

Anyway, I have to run. A close friend/relative of mine just lost her eldest sister and I'm going to go and just be supportive. She just died this morning.

Have a great weekend everybody!

32

Jesus Christ explains the particle used in my cosmology theory using parables in the bible.

by Aleon in

i wrote a cosmology theory using an expanding particle shaped as a perfect sphere.

in the bible jesus christ speaks of this particle in his parables.

this is good news!.

LorenzoSmithXVII

As far as Jesus' parables and comparisons go, it is very important to understand the culture as well as idiomatic expressions. For instance, when Jesus said the Pharisees used to strain out the gnat and gulp down the "camel" he wasn't talking about the 4-legged dromedary. But "camel" was the common reference for what we call a "horsefly." They called it a "camel fly" and for short a "camel." So what Jesus was saying was that the they would strain out the tiniest fly but gulp down the largest fly.

Likewise, a camel has a hump. Sometimes when there were humps in the thread, or the thread would bunch up behind the eye of the needle with a few strands only getting through, it looked like a camel with a long skiny neck followed by a hump. So the local colloquialism for a lump in the thread was called a "camel." So what Jesus was saying was how difficult it was to get a "camel" or a lump in the thread into a needle; of course, you can't. He wasn't suggesting that women would try to get a literal camel into their sewing.

As far as Jesus' parable about the yeast fermenting the whole lump, he didn't mention anything about enough to make the bread rise apparently. So perhaps his point was that it would only take a slight amount of yeast to pollute the flour making it unfit to make "unleavened bread" as required for the Passover meal. So in that sense, maybe that was the real point of his reference. That when you need something kosher, like unleavened flour to make unleavened bread, if you mix even a little yeast in a large amount of flour, it still pollutes the entire measure of flour, since you now can't make kosher, unleavened bread. Unleavened bread has to be 100% pure and the least amount of leaven makes it unpure, non-kosher.

But this parable still matches the impact the kingdom will have. That is, it will begin very small, affecting a select few. First the elect, God's own people, Jews and JWs then Christendom in general. But eventually it would impact upon the whole world. Something small would change the whole world, like a tiny bit of leaven polluting a large measure of flour. Christ's kingdom begins small then spreads to affect the entire world.

55

What is the "sign" of "Christ's Invisible Presence?"

by Fisherman in

the wts teaches, that from 1914 onward, a sign has been evident, which is proof of god's kingdom.

jw profess to see that sign.

a "sign" means evidence from god.

LorenzoSmithXVII

Note that even though JWs specifically were a target of the Nazis along with the Jews to fulfill the "disgusting thing in a holy place" (i.e. both Jews and JWs are considered the "holy ones"), their leadership eventually become apostate, not that the covenant with JWs and Jews didn't end in 1996.

In the Bible, the JW organization is considered the "temple in its right condition" sect. JWs consider themselves the "only true religion," but if they eventually become the "evil slave" organization, which they do, then there are many other faithful organizations out there. Christ sent out "ten" slaves to do work, not just one. He clearly says he has "other sheep not of this fold," another indication that Christ is gathering sheep in more than one place, not just the JW organization.

But JWs were charged with preaching the "good news." So when you think of the JW organization, don't think of them as the "only true religion" or spiritual Israel. Think of them as the temple or the tribe of Levi within Christendom. That is, just as the tribe of Levi had a special commission to manage the temple aspect of the Jewish culture, likewise in the Christian system, a select Christian sect would serve as the "temple in its right condition. That "temple" sect turns out to be JWs. But as the Bible tells us at 2 Thessalonians 2, the leadership becomes corrupt in the end and makes itself a god in God's own house. God's house is his temple and that is made up of the public anointed ones in the organization, who are glorious ones and thus like "gods" themselves. But the GB has made itself superior to the other anointed ones by claiming they are the new mediator between God and them, calling themselves "God's channel of communication." Thus they have become apostate and Jehovah has cast them into spiritual darkness now. Even so, the "man of lawlessness" is associated with God's house, and thus the temple sect. Identify the temple sect, which would be those who preach the "good news" worldwide, and you can identify the "man of lawlessness," which is a reference to the GB of JW who has now become apostate.

So when Christ comes as described in the Bible, he comes to separate the sheep from the goats in this particular religion and he takes the good sheep out, the faithful anointed, and brings them to "other sheep not of this fold" and abandons the goats and the organization, which becomes part of "Babylon the Great." In fact, since Babylon the Great rides the scarlet-colored wild beast, which represents the UN, when the WTS joined the UN in early 1992, they came under the influence and cooperation of Babylon the Great.

Thus the WTS is like the "broad road" that everybody was on in the beginning. That was fine in the beginning when the destination was general and far off. But now it is leading off into destruction and individuals must leave and find the narrow and cramped path. The "group policy" for salvation that the Witnesses are teaching, is thus a dangerous falsehood.

55

What is the "sign" of "Christ's Invisible Presence?"

by Fisherman in

the wts teaches, that from 1914 onward, a sign has been evident, which is proof of god's kingdom.

jw profess to see that sign.

a "sign" means evidence from god.

LorenzoSmithXVII

First of all, "parousia" is poorly translated as "presence." A parousia was like a long procession preceding the actual arrival of a dignitary who arrived at the very end of that procession. So what they were asking Jesus was what would be some of the events or activities that they would see just prior to his second coming? So the "parousia" is what happens just before the arrival, the "erchomai." So if "pre-arrival events" can be understood as "presence" then fine. If not, then "presence" is a poor translation.

What they were really asking was what would be the signs of his "near-arrival." NEAR-ARRIVAL is a better translation of the word "parousia" compared to presence. "Presents" are what you get at Christmastime. Oh, sorry, I got distracted. (oops! -- smile -- it's late, I've been drinking! Let's try that again:) PRESENCE suggests someone has arrived already, doesn't it? You are "present" *after* you actually arrive.

PARA means near to. So this is a reference to what would happen close to the time of his arrival. What would be the events that we'd see just before your arrival or close to your arrival, or alongside your arrival, accompanying your arrival? So they were asking what would be some of the things they would see just prior to his arrival? But also prior to the "end of the system of things?" Clearly, then, the "end of the system of things" was a big event but they understood that that would occur just prior to his arrival.

Therefore the sign of his near-arrival would be those events mentioned, beginning with a world war, which is "nation against nation and kingdom against kingdom." A world war would be the first event of that "last generation." Thus the "parousia" or near-arrival events before his actual arrival would last no more than a generation of 80 years. Since a world war occurred in 1914, his arrival must occur prior to 1994, near the very end of that generation. In the meantime, the "conclusion of the current system of things" would also end.

Now the "system of things" is a reference to the current state of things for the Jews. Thus the specific "system of things" in reference here is synonymous with the "appointed times of the nations" that was to end. So when they thought of the "end of the system of things" they were referencing the end of the appointed times of the nations, which was the current system of things for the Jews. The end of the appointed times of the nations, of course, is also synonymous with the "end of the gentile times." Thus from this context, we know that the "end of the gentile times" was to occur during this 80-year generation between 1914-1994 AD.

But also prior to to the end of the gentile times, the "good news" was to be preached world wide. That is, those woh preached the "good news" would have become an international organization.

Also a major event that was to happen was the "great tribulation" which was to occur prior to the appearance of the "sign of the son of man" which would be seen by the elect in the heavens.

Now, there were to be food shortages and "social unrest" in one place after another. What is customarily translated as "earth quake" from the Greek word seismos, can refer to a storm or tempest or social unrest. So "social unrest" is a more accurate reference of seimos here than "earth quakes" in one place after another or in various places. So besides food shortages and pestilence, easily fulfilled by the Great Depression and the Spanish Influenza, there would be social unrest in the world, obviously leading to a second world war during which the great tribulation would occur.

Now in the Bible, there are two covenants. One with Christians/JWs and one with the natural Jews. When a reference is specific to the Jews, they Jews are called the "greater number" and thus the "lesser number" is a reference to JWs. So when the Bible speaks about the "love of the greater number cooling off" it is speaking about the popularity in the world of the Jews, and thus is a reference to the increase in antisemitism leading up to the "great tribulation" which is actually a reference to the Holocaust during WWII. Thus the "great tribulation" is a reference to WWII. Now that "great tribulation" was supposed to last for 7 years from 1940-1947 after which the Jews would experience the "end of the gentile times" in 1947. But because two-thirds of the Jews were already exterminated by Hitler by late 1944, the "days" of the tribulation were said to be "cut short" or else no flesh (of the Jews) would be saved.

The specific fulfillment of the "conclusion of the system of things," that is, the "end of the gentile times, occurs on November 30, 1947. The preaching of the "good news" occurring prior to this has a general as well as a specific fulfillment. That is, by 1947, JWs had become an international organization and thus had preached the "good news" worldwide by November 30, 1947. "But specifically that year, then president NH Knorr went on an actual around-the-globe speaking tour. Thus that worldwide speaking tour was a specific sign that the "end of the system of things" or the end of the gentile times would happen shortly afterward, and it did! The end of the gentile times did occur on November 30, 1947 with the UN Partition Agreement, and by the Spring of 1948, the State of Israel was established. Both these events, however, were to occur before the "sign of the son of man" would appear in the heavens to the chosen elect and thus also the second coming.

(Oh, yes! I'm so glad to have cleared that up for everyone. You're most welcome!)

Oh wait, one more thing! Specific Bible chronology has to be fulfilled in connection with the "great tribulation" and the "end of the gentile times" 7 years later. These events thus occur in the context of 70 weeks, a 490-year period that would see the end of the gentile times, the second coming, and the "great tribulation." Within the context of these 490 years, the great tribulation occurs after 62 weeks and is referred to as the "cut off." The 70 weeks are divided into 1 week (7 years), 62 weeks (434 years) and 7 weeks (49 years). So after 434 years into the 70 weeks, the great tribulation would occur for 7 years, just before the restoration of the Jews to their homeland for 49 years, the final 49 years of the 70 weeks and also the final 49 years of the covenant. Thus the "covenant" for both Jews and JWs would end in 1996. That's because the 70 weeks occurring during out time begins in 1506 and ends in 1996 based on a countdown of 70-week periods from 36 CE.

4 x 490 = 1960; 1960 + 36 CE = 1996.

The end of 62 weeks or 434 years thus would begin in 1940 (434 + 1506 = 1940). The 7-year tribulation would be from 1940-1947. During this time, two-thirds of the Jews were prophesied to be exterminated during a great tribulation, an event that never happened before nor would happen again. (Zech 13:8) That event was the Holocaust during WWII. But as noted, two-thirds of the Jews were already killed by the end of 1944, so the "days were cut short." That is, WWII ended early in the Spring of 1945. Even so, the "end of the gentile times" did not occur until 1947, when the final 49 years of the 70 weeks would occur, a "week" of 7 years for each day that would see the end of the covenant in 1996.

So it is important to understand that it is not merely seeing these individual events, but those events in connection with the chronology. Of course, the "great tribulation" has to be a one-time event, and that was the Holocaust. Now on retrospect, could anyone think that out of all the signs given approaching the second coming, that the Holocaust wouldn't be one of them? Of course not. It is prominently focused on, only not recognized by most as the "great tribulation," which most people confuse with the "great tribulatoin" that happens to the gentiles just before Armageddon. So there are two great tribulations; one that happens to the Jews or to the "holy ones" during the Holocuast, and one that happens to the gentiles. But again, therefore, the "sign" would have to be a combination of the fulfilled chronology superimposed on the context of these specific events.

Of course, per the Bible, the Holocaust (great tribulation) and the "end of the gentile times" which allows for the State of Israel to be reborn, represented by leaves growing tender on a "fig tree" all happen prior to the second coming and the appearance of the "sign of the son of man" that is seen in the heavens. So the second coming and the appearance of that "sign of the son of man" don't occur until after 1948. Thus the concept of Christ's return and invisible presence at the very beginning of this last generation of 1914-1994 is contradictory to what the Bible teaches. Christ does not actually "arrive" during this generation until after the Holocaust and the State of Israel is set up. The Bible clearly says at 24:29 "Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days... the sign of the son of man would appear." Further it says that when you see the fig tree (State of Israel) begin to grow tender, then he is "near at the doors," meaning he doesn't arrive prior to the new State of Israel being established.

1947 begins the 70th jubilee of a covenant for the Jews that began when they were in Egypt, beginning 3430 years earlier in 1435 BCE. Based on that, we can date the Exodus specifically 49 years later to 1386 BCE.

thus both CHRONOLOGY and specific EVENTS combine to confirm the "last generation" that would see the second coming prior to 1994, but not prior to 1948.

19

As a Work of Literature The Bible is Just Dreadful

by cofty in

of course it's easy to criticise the bible for all manner of serious flaws, but it fails on a more basic level.. it is just a terrible piece of literature.. this piece on "southern skeptic" is well worth a read.. god is a terrible writer....

LorenzoSmithXVII

If a book is not written in your language, it can be quite dull and confusing.

Clearly, Jesus had special meanings for his own and outsiders were to look on in amazement and see nothing. So the Bible is not meant to be understood by everyone.

Whether you enjoy the bible or not might depend a lot on what you expect to get out of it. The phone book isn't meant necessary to be read from cover to cover. It's a reference work. So is the Bible.

18

What if Satan repent

by James Mixon in

satan, god i'm sorry for my misdeed, will you forgive me.

tell satan.

satan comes.

LorenzoSmithXVII

James Mixon36 minutes ago

Lorenzo: I live 10 minutes from Arcadia Congregation. I may pay them a visit.

ROFL! You're KIDDING!!! You are in the heart of the occult world. If it is the same Kingdom Hall, it also hosts the Monrovia Congregation and a Spanish congregation. That whole region - Santa Anita, Arcadia, Monrovia. That's the center of a lot of occult stuff. Practically everything there has something to do with the occult and secret societies and witchcraft, the advanced "mysteries" and Satanism.

Anyway, yes, go to the mid-week meeting in Arcadia! That's because they have student talks and lots of people participate on the program and you can study them. Sundays is just a talk and a Watchtower. A lot of rich brothers live there apparently. These are the brothers who take the governing body on trips to Russia and all that. People don't realize that there are a lot of rich brothers and they give the Society lots of money. But they make sure the Governing Body get all kinds of perks. IF they need to go on a trip to Russia or someplace, these are the brothers that pay for everything and go with them. They have special programs and trips that I never heard of before. The Azusa congregation is trippy too.

Now let me just assure you I'm not crazy. For instance, I was there to infiltrate some of the secret societies there. So I was given a special pair of glasses. The nose guard broke off and I had to have it replaced. So I went to this occult shop to get it replaced and they put a special nose guard on my glasses. Then I went to another glass shop to get an eye exam and I guess when they saw the special nose gaurd with a special flower, they showed me a special eye test, to see if I recognized some occult figures. Of course I did, so they gave me a special prescription for a special pair of glasses. I don't know what the process was, whether it was a special cut or a special polishing, but they were regular clear prescription glasses that if you looked into the corner of the glasses you could see behind you! No kidding! LIke you can see your reflection in a window pane sometimes. It has either to do with the angle or a special polish. At any rate, I had to pay extra for it. So that is where you can get all that occult secret "watchers" stuff. So imagine having a pair of glasses that you can see behind you with!

So that is real and that was part of convincing me about how underground societies work. But part of that was also wearing a certain type of clothing which evoked cult members to ask you a question. It was some benign question like, "What did you do for your vacation last summer" or something. Now I didn't know the right answer. But I didn't need to. Because I knew as soon as someone asked me that question, they were part of the secret society. See, you don't have to infiltrate an organization to confirm they exist. It is confirmed if you get asked the same question. So it's like if you're snooping around and they are not sure if you're another Freemason or something, they will ask you that question. If you don't have the right answer, then they know you are not a member or you're an imposter. But of course, as soon as they ask you that question, you know who they are, because you know what the question is. As a result, you become very aware of how extensive, at least in this area, the occult secret societies are. All kinds of secret signs everywhere.

Anyway, I had to use those glasses at the Kingdom Hall once to see behind me. That meant I had to sit at the very front in the front row. But I could see everybody behind me and nobody knew I was looking at them. That's the key. People can watch what you are focusing on. They can see what you see. But if you can not be seen looking at something, then they don't know what you're looking at. That's why people who wear shades all the time are suspect; they don't want to get caught watching, Plus they've got some rare libraries. The Baldwin Park Library has some super rare books!

Anyway, you're in the middle of Satandom! ROFL! I guess that means high-level Satanists are around there, that's all. Lots of natural herbs and vitamin shops. It is where the witches and warlocks go to shop, basically. ROFL! Nah, I don't want to scare you. But seeing is believing. I had to be shown just a few things that go on to believe the rest. A lot of things are offered in that area that are not offered anywhere else.

Just go to the congregation with an open mind. Of course, if you live 10 minutes from the Kingdom Hall, you're probably rich too? Maybe not.

18

What if Satan repent

by James Mixon in

satan, god i'm sorry for my misdeed, will you forgive me.

tell satan.

satan comes.

LorenzoSmithXVII

opusdei1972

Satan does not exist, but according to the Jews, he obeys Yahweh as one of his sons.

Actually, he literally does exist. You were misinformed. The modern-day throne of Satan is in Arcadia, California. Have you ever been to the Arcadia Congregation of JW? Man....