Posts by clarity

ambient abuse is the stealth, subtle, underground currents of maltreatment that sometimes go unnoticed even by the victims themselves, until it is too late.

ambient abuse penetrates and permeates everything but is difficult to pinpoint and identify.

it is ambiguous, atmospheric, diffuse.

clarity

Hhmmmm ....yup, has watchtower written all over it!

The crazy-making jw behavior can make you very ill!

*

Looks like you are quite new here, welcome to jwn.

Sorry if missed your opening post ....there are so many

coming out of wt right now it is hard to keep track of all

you wonderful newbies!

clarity

10

My views.

by ivanatahan in

jw
friends

this is more of an introductory post discussing my views and background than anything else, really.. i was, unfortunately, born into this religion.

my mom was, and still is, a pioneer (or as some call it: "piousneer"), and my father is an elder.

admittedly, up until a few months up to a year back, i was indeed a zealous "servant of jehovah".

clarity

Ivan.. wonderful that you have woken up,

congratulations & welcome.

So glad you have started on a path that will

lead to a real life.

Realize that watchtower is a Real Estate Investment CO.

A most brilliant idea that I've ever heard! Imagine, WT uses

your money to buy good realestate properties, then uses

your free labour to renovate the properties. They are used

to produce & print millions of magazines & books ...btw these

are not only peddaled from d2d, but are SOLD to a captive

audience of 7 million members ....who MUST buy them to

study for the meetings!

Now, when the value of their realestate holdings goes up,

watchtower sells them off ....they never tell you where all

those millions goes! World Wide Work ...is a joke!

The biggest bonus of all, and why they use religion as a front,

is that all this money is .... TAX FREE!

Many more scams...read about the Assemblys & Convention scams!

clarity

4

Working on a Sunday morning!

by lurkernomore in

jw
friends

it's coming up to 4 months since our last meeting.

apart from three visits to the house in the first 4 weeks we've not heard a peep from anyone, except for two 'encouraging' cards from two older ladies in the local hall.. a couple self-righteous, not even exemplary witnesses, have taken it upon themselves to pre-emptively shun me on a couple occasions, which i found rather funny.. anyway my grandad needed some minor building work doing to the front of the house, which my brother and i happily agreed to do for him.

his house is on a main road running up the hill to the kingdom hall.

clarity

24

do other religions change doctrines like the wt society does?

by sowhatnow in

i just wondered.

i mean ok, the catholic church seems to make 'adjustments' more or less , by accepting previously held prejudices.

against certain things, like gays, or birth control, or rather tolerate it more, but is that a genuine change of doctrine?.

clarity

http://gwest59.tripod.com/ChristIsLord/id26.html

24

do other religions change doctrines like the wt society does?

by sowhatnow in

i just wondered.

i mean ok, the catholic church seems to make 'adjustments' more or less , by accepting previously held prejudices.

against certain things, like gays, or birth control, or rather tolerate it more, but is that a genuine change of doctrine?.

clarity

For those who have not read about the wt's

view of all their errors & changes...

here is an eye opener!

Fred Franz was under oath .......

**

Back to the point now. A false prophesy was promulgated? A. I agree that. Q. It had to be accepted by Jehovah's Witnesses? A. That is correct. Q. If a member of Jehovah's Witnesses took the view himself that that prophesy was wrong and said so he would be disfellowshipped? A. Yes, if he said so and kept persisting in creating trouble, because if the whole organisation believes one thing, even though it be erronious and somebody else starts on his own trying to put his ideas across then there is disunity and trouble, there cannot be harmony, there cannot be marching. When a change comes it should come from the proper source, the head of the organisation, the governing body, not from the bottom upwards, because everybody would have ideas, and the organisation would disintegrate and go in a thousand different directions. Our purpose is to have unity. Q. Unity at all costs? A. Unity at all costs, because we believe and are sure that Jehovah God is using our organisation, the governing body of our organisation to direct it, even though mistakes are made from time to time. Q. And unity based upon an enforced acceptance of false prophecy? A. That is conceded to be true. Q. And the person who expressed his view, as you say, that it was wrong, and was disfellowshipped, would be in breach of the Covenant, if he was baptized? A. That is correct. Q. And as you said yesterday expressly, would be worthy of death? A. I think - - - Q. Would you say yes or no? A. I will answer yes, unhesitatingly. Q. Do you call that religion? A. It certainly is. Q. Do you call it Christianity? A. I certainly do. Fred Franz, then vice-president of the Society, also answered questions for the attorney for the Ministry of Labour and National Service. Q. In addition to these regular publications do you prepare and issue a number of theological pamphlets and books from time to time? A. Yes. Q. Can you tell me this; are these theological publications and the semi-monthly periodicals used for discussion of statements of doctrine? A. Yes. Q. Are these statements of doctrine held to be authoritative within the Society? A. Yes. Q. Is their acceptance a matter of choice, or is it obligatory on all those who wish to be and remain members of the Society? A. It is obligatory. The British government counsellor later directed attention to certain teachings that the Society had in time rejected, including some involving specific dates. What, he asked, if someone, at the time when such teaching was promulgated, had seen the error in it and had therefore not accepted it? What would the organization's attitude toward such one be? The testimony explains: Q. Did [Pastor Russell] not fix 1874 as some other crucial date? A. 1874 used to be understood as the date of Jesus' Second Coming spiritually. Q. Do you say, used to be understood? A. That is right. Q. That was issued as a fact which was to be accepted by all who were Jehovah's Witnesses? A. Yes. Q. That is no longer now accepted, is it? A. No. Q. But it was a calculation which is no longer accepted by the Board of Directors of the Society? A. That is correct. Q. So that am I correct, I am just anxious to canvas the position; it became the bounden duty of the Witnesses to accept this miscalculation? A. Yes. Q. So that what is published as the truth today by the Society may have to be admitted to be wrong in a few years? A. We have to wait and see. Q. And in the meantime the body of Jehovah's Witnesses have been following error? A. They have been following misconstructions on the Scriptures. Q. Error? A. Well, error. Again the question as to how great the authority attributed to the Society's publications is came in for discussion. While at one point the vice president says that "one does not compulsorily accept," his testimony thereafter reverts back to the earlier position, as can be seen: A. These [Watchtower Society] books give an exposition on the whole Scriptures. Q. But an authoritative exposition? A. They submit the Bible or the statements that are therein made, and the individual examines the statement and then the Scripture to see that the statement is Scripturally supported. Q. He what? A. He examines the Scripture to see whether the statement is supported by the Scripture. As the Apostle says: "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good". Q. I understood the position to be - do please correct me if I am wrong - that a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses must accept as a true Scripture and interpretation what is given in the books I referred you to? A. But he does not compulsorily do so, he is given his Christian right of examining the Scriptures to confirm that this is Scripturally sustained. Q. And if he finds that the Scripture is not sustained by the books, or vice versa, what does he do? A. The Scripture is there in support of the statement, that is why it is put there. Q. What does a man do if he finds a disharmony between the Scripture and those books? A. You will have to produce me a man who does find that, then I can answer, or he will answer. Note Franz's waffling. He is unwilling, even under oath, to admit that present understanding can be in error, even though he just finished testifying that what is published as truth today may be error in a few years. Q. Did you imply that the individual member has the right of reading the books and the Bible and forming his own view as to the proper interpretation of Holy Writ? A. He comes - - - Q. Would you say yes or no, and then qualify? A. No. Do you want me to qualify now? Q. Yes, if you wish? A. The Scripture is there given in support of the statement, and therefore the individual when he looks up the Scripture and thereby verifies the statement, then he comes to the Scriptural view of the matter, Scriptural understanding as it is written in Acts, the seventeenth chapter and the eleventh verse, that the Bereans were more noble than those of Thessalonica in that they received the Word with all readiness, and they searched the Scripture to see whether those things were so, and we instruct to follow that noble course of the Bereans in searching the Scripture to see whether these things were so. Q. A Witness has no alternative, has he, to accept as authoritative and to be obeyed instructions issued in the "Watchtower" or the "Informant" or "Awake"? A. He must accept those. To recap, Haydon C. Covington basically said that the Watchtower Society views unity as more important than even doctrinal truth, and that this desire for unity may even result in a forced acceptance of false prophecy. Fred Franz's testimony confirmed this, and further showed that, while the Society makes a show of encouraging people to examine its doctrines in light of the scriptures "to see whether these things are so" (Acts 17:10,11), it does not allow its members to freely act upon the results of that examination if the Society's claims are found wanting. Since the Society will never admit to members that it is wrong right now, it does not truly allow them to examine its doctrines to see "whether these things were so," but in practice requires them to examine the scriptures to confirm that these things are so, and to "readjust" their thinking if they are unable to do that. In other words, no matter what an individual finds, he is obligated to believe whatever the Society teaches at that moment. At least, he is obligated not to publicly or privately disagree with the Society, and so if he really cannot bring himself to accept some doctrine, he must pretend to accept it, and live a lie in order to remain in good standing. Since Psalm 51:6 says of Jehovah, "you have taken delight in truthfulness itself in the inward parts," and the Bible says that Jehovah is a God of truth, this attitude would appear inconsistent with his will. So, even though the Society states it is fallible and is not inspired, no member is allowed to act on this without serious consequences ranging from loss of congregational privileges to disfellowshipping. The Society wants every member to believe, as Covington testified, that any member who acts on the fact that Watchtower Society leaders are not infallible is worthy of death.

59

At This Point In Time Would You Ever Subject Yourself To A Judicial Committee?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i certainly wouldn't.

and if the elders wanted to have a meeting with me, i would respectfully decline.

if the elders wanted to deal with you, would you talk with them?.

clarity

When I first realized those basturds lied to me,

and sent me out to preach those lies ....oh yes I

wanted to mess with them!

Now ....I wouldn't dirty my hands!

I have a lawyer ready if & when...they can talk to him!

18

JW Friend was Married this Weekend. Tutto è bene che riesce bene.

by objectivetruth in

a close jw friend of mine, got married this weekend.ever since he and i meet (13 years ago) when we were both 18 we've been close and we've experienced different life experiences together.. our qualities, have complemented each other well over the years..he the voice of responsibility and reservedness, & i the voice of spontaneity and passion.i taught him about life and he taught me about perseverance through trial.. i care about justice, he cares about reputation.he is a better person then i will ever be, but so stricken by society.. i always stuck my neck out for him, but our friendship was the thorn in his reputations side.he was on the path to mts, and i was on the path of frivolity.despite all this.. when the 2 of us were together, free from the scrutiny of the outside world he was himself, and he was a great friend.

though naive about much, he always tried to do what he could to be a friend.. i was there when he and his now wife first started dating.. i envisioned him marrying her, and my wife & i spending many enjoyable times with them as a couple.. shortly after they meet my wife & i learned ttatt.. i explained my findings to him as i did with all my friends and family.

he being a person, whom i perceived to have great deal of biblical knowledge, i expected valiant effort coming from him to "help me" see where i had erred.all i got was a email with 3 irrelevant watchtower articles & some even more irrelevant scriptures.. i would have surely been his best man, but instead another mutual jw friend was asked.i am not da'd or df'd but this is the pseudo non-invitation that he sent :.

clarity

J-Dubbed ...so sorry that happed to you, I can

relate to your words as I am experiencing that

sort of evil thing too.......hard to believe that your

own flesh & blood ..... can do this!

clarity

18

JW Friend was Married this Weekend. Tutto è bene che riesce bene.

by objectivetruth in

a close jw friend of mine, got married this weekend.ever since he and i meet (13 years ago) when we were both 18 we've been close and we've experienced different life experiences together.. our qualities, have complemented each other well over the years..he the voice of responsibility and reservedness, & i the voice of spontaneity and passion.i taught him about life and he taught me about perseverance through trial.. i care about justice, he cares about reputation.he is a better person then i will ever be, but so stricken by society.. i always stuck my neck out for him, but our friendship was the thorn in his reputations side.he was on the path to mts, and i was on the path of frivolity.despite all this.. when the 2 of us were together, free from the scrutiny of the outside world he was himself, and he was a great friend.

though naive about much, he always tried to do what he could to be a friend.. i was there when he and his now wife first started dating.. i envisioned him marrying her, and my wife & i spending many enjoyable times with them as a couple.. shortly after they meet my wife & i learned ttatt.. i explained my findings to him as i did with all my friends and family.

he being a person, whom i perceived to have great deal of biblical knowledge, i expected valiant effort coming from him to "help me" see where i had erred.all i got was a email with 3 irrelevant watchtower articles & some even more irrelevant scriptures.. i would have surely been his best man, but instead another mutual jw friend was asked.i am not da'd or df'd but this is the pseudo non-invitation that he sent :.

clarity

Objective ...... even when you see it coming,

the rejection is gut wrenching. So sorry...you

are the better man & deserve better!

Well damn it, we all deserve better than what

these jehovah witness programmed drones

dish out!

So glad we woke-up and have a treasure worth

having ........freedom to think, freedom to speak

and love for our unique & wonderful selves!

clarity

2

#OPCultOffensive (OP Cult Offensive)

by objectivetruth in

__ __ ____ ______ ____ ____ ________ _ __/ // /_/ __ \____ / ____/_ __/ / /_/ __ \/ __/ __/__ ____ _____(_) _____ /_ _ __/ / / / __ \/ / / / / / / __/ / / / /_/ /_/ _ \/ __ \/ ___/ / | / / _ \/_ _ __/ /_/ / /_/ / /___/ /_/ / / /_/ /_/ / __/ __/ __/ / / (__ ) /| |/ / __/ /_//_/ \____/ .___/\____/\__,_/_/\__/\____/_/ /_/ \___/_/ /_/____/_/ |___/\___/ /_/ an open letter to:the watchtower bible and tract society(jehovahs witnesses)the church of jesus christ of latter day saints(mormons)the church of scientologythe holy spirit association for the unification of world christianity (unification church)the family (children of god)christian identity movement (aryan nations, christian identity church, klu klux klan, etc.

)united pentecostal church.

greetings cult leaders everywhere!

clarity

Thanks for taking a strong stand ObjectiveTruth!

I agree with Flipper!

clarity