"FEAR is the product of religion. RELIEF is the medicine that is peddled. RELIGIOUS identity is the rabbit's foot of comfort.
If that is a HUGE generalization I'm open to refutation."
Hi Terry,
I consider myself religious, but not in a traditional sense.
I am not religious because I fear anything. I don't fear death (I have been in situations where I could have died, so I have had to face this). I'm not religious because I think it's a requirement for immortality. To be quite honest, I'm not yet convinced that there IS any such thing as immortality, but I'm not unconvinced, either. Neither do I feel any need to be immortal, or to "make my name" in the world, so to speak. What I am concerned about most is what can I do now to make a difference for future generations while I am here.
I don't identify with your first two assertions, although I kinda like your last one;)Religious ritual is comforting to me, but more because it fosters a feeling of community. I'm sure you're going to say that I can find this same feeling elsewhere, and you are right, I have. But there is something indescribable about gathering together specifically for religious rituals.
Your inference of persons needing religion due to fear interests me, because just this week, I read something by an author who stated that atheists don't believe because they fear a loss of autonomy. It amuses me that the same arguement has been used for and against the validation of religion.
I am curious-why do you feel a need to convince others that religious belief is nothing but a fallacy?
The dictionary defines religious as meaning "relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to {an acknowledged ultimate reality} or deity. (emphasis mine).
Wouldn't that make a proponent of atheism religious, also?
Cicatrix
JoinedPosts by Cicatrix
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72
Rationalism and religion
by Narkissos ini've not been too good at creating topics thus far, but for my 1000th post (in case you wouldn't notice .
we often oppose reason (ratio) and belief, as if those were mutually exclusive.
reason always works from presuppositions.
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Cicatrix
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Other Religions
by rain insomething i thought of as i was reading through the posts:
i have read through various posts where it has been said that some feel that jws are not the organisation or people of god.
therefore, has anyone after leaving the jws joined another religion?
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Cicatrix
Hi Rain,
I haven't technically joined another religion (I have committment issues now, lol), but I do often go to a nearby Unitarian Universalist church.
When I first left the JWs, I had nothing to do with religion at all. But I realized that I have had a need for spirituality in my life since I was a child, and that I do enjoy religious ritual occasionally. What I no longer have any tolerance for is absolutism or intolerance of others.
I learned about the Unitarian Universalists on this board, actually, and I decided to give that church a try. I've found the members of the particular church I go to, to be tolerant and open minded. Each member is allowed to define and practice their faith, and their choice is respected by other members.
Not only is independent thinking tolerated, it is encouraged. The first sermon I heard, the minister said that we should read all things critically. Respectful debate is the norm, not the exception.
One of the principles of the church is that the inherent dignity of all people should be recognised, and it is. The church community I have joined welcomes everyone who can agree with their seven tenets, and these tenents are just basic commonsense things that nearly everyone can agree on. Therefore, members of ALL religions or no religion are welcome (there are several atheists who attend), persons of all sexual orientations,races,ages,political ideologies,etc.
This church works for me. If there wasn't a UU church in my area, I'm not sure I would go to church at all, though. After the absolutism of the WTS, I'm a much more educated about what I do and do not want as far as religion is concerned.
Edited to add: And alot of my education came from members of this board. Thank you all! -
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Jephthah's daughter
by Cicatrix inso the wts taught us all that jephthah sacrificed his daughter to jehovah's service at the temple.
well, that's not what i found out today.
i was reading a site on archeology, and they mentioned that jephthah had offered up his daughter as a burnt offering, and that this was sometimes practiced by the canaanites.the article said that some of the israelites had initially settled peacefully amongst the canannites about two hundred years before joshua conquered jericho, and that this is an example of how they adopted some of the canaanite practices.
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Cicatrix
"many "scholarly" works, especially in English, are actually fundamentalistic and apologetic stuff which does not really take into account the results of critical research"
Yep. This is all I have run into in regards to Biblical arheology, etc, at the libraries and book stores locally.Most of the sources I've found are online, and are few and far between.
Even my instructors in college were afraid to approach it from the critical perspective (I lived in a very conservative area). My mythology instructor just deleted the Hebrew mythological accounts altogether, although he did like when I alluded to them in my own papers. He read a couple of them out loud to the class:)
At this time, my research is mostly just a hobby, for my own information. I do love Leolaia and Peaceful Pete's threads and will continue to check them out also.
Thanks again for all the info.I learned a lot from what you posted, including some new areas I want to add to my research:) -
31
Where were you three years ago today?
by hemp lover ini was thinking last night that 9/11/01, for this generation, is somewhat akin to 11/22/63 (jfk's assassination) for previous generations.
i remember listening to the adults' stories when i was a child of where they were and what they were doing when jfk was assassinated.. so where were you on 9/11/01?
how has that day affected your life?.
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Cicatrix
I was in a campground about two hundred miles away from my children. We were trying to relocate because of the economic conditions.
I woke up violently ill right around the time the first plane hit. I was drifting in and out of a fitful sleep. Around the time the second plane hit, someone in the campground turned their radio up full blast so we would all know what was going on.
I thought of my children immediately, wishing I could be with them. But I was just too sick to travel, and there was conjecture about whether or not a major bridge about fifty miles away that I had to cross to get home was closed (it turned out it was not).
My children were at our home, which was located not too far from an airbase which has one of the longest runways in the north (it's an emergency landing base for the space shuttles). Because of it's runway, it's viewed as a prime target in the case of invasion.
I was terrified for my kids! I kept have the recurring thought of what if something happens to them or us, and I don't get to tell them how much I love them before we die.Luckily, I was able to reach them by phone later that evening when I was well enough to stand.
I drove home the next day, and listened to radio all the way home.I found myself in tears more than once,as the uncertainty was torturous.When I got home,I watched the media footage over and over again. My daughter and I just sat there silently, watching this footage.
Then I cried for all of the victims and their families.I don't think I stopped for about three days.
Incidentally, I was still JW then. The idea of Armageddon didn't even occur to me, and I was irritated with the "field service" experiences that were reported shortly after the attack (though I can't really pinpoint why-it just angered me to hear them talk about them at the meetings). Six months later, I enrolled in college. Instead of quitting college when they started the pressure on me about going, I quit the meetings. -
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Cicatrix
I'm shedding tears in rememberance of those who died today three years ago.
And tears for all in the world who have died from senseless acts of violence:( -
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Jephthah's daughter
by Cicatrix inso the wts taught us all that jephthah sacrificed his daughter to jehovah's service at the temple.
well, that's not what i found out today.
i was reading a site on archeology, and they mentioned that jephthah had offered up his daughter as a burnt offering, and that this was sometimes practiced by the canaanites.the article said that some of the israelites had initially settled peacefully amongst the canannites about two hundred years before joshua conquered jericho, and that this is an example of how they adopted some of the canaanite practices.
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Cicatrix
"if the whole Hebrew Bible (OT) is the result of a writing/editing/rewriting process which began around the 6th century BC, there really are no older books left. "
Good point. Does the book you mentioned say much about the editing process it underwent? I plan to get a copy as soon as I get moved and settled in.
What do you think about books that were written around the same time that were left out of the Bible cannon? -
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America's Favorite Mormon has finally lost!
by TresHappy inafter 74 wins and 2.5 million, ken jennings has finally lost!
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Cicatrix
"All I want to know is if he wears the funny Mormon underwear! (They are designed to prevent you from doing naughty things with your naughty bits!)"
Okay, is this a farce, or for real? Pardon me my ignorance, but I was just wondering. -
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When you're happy, the whole world smiles with you...
by LittleToe in.
spread some cheer, with a simple smile.. you know you want to.. you'll be ever so happy....
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Cicatrix
I was going to see if I could get through this whole thread without smiling, but you got me. All those smilies were just too contagious, and those kittens, oh my, now I want a kitten (but not too sure what my dog would think of that, lol).
So add another victim to your WMH (weapon of mass happiness) list.
I'm going to go and try to find someone to infect,too:) -
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Snipits from Sept 2004 KM's
by qwerty ini don't think i am breaking any copyright law here by retyping (quoting) a small section from the km.. just look what tactics the organisation are using by appealing to the consience of those trapped!respecting jehovah's authority.
with what do you associate the ancient names korah, dathan, and abiram?
rebellion!
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Cicatrix
"(3) How should we react to the imperfections of those appointed to take the lead?"
And of course, the disclaimer, in case they decide to ease up on the shunning rules again. -
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Buying a new Home...I hope...dream
by Crooked Lumpy Vessel inme and hubby have been looking at some model homes and they were so beautiful...i am completely sold.
we have built over 150,000 in equity in the last 3 years, so it looks like my dream home might be a reality.
this is something i would never have thought of in my earlier jw days.
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Cicatrix
"Some of the friends I confided in have already been putting me down behind my back. Like we dont need a house that size and a fireplace is just another thing to clean and blah blah."
I remember when we bought our first home. The elders counseled us against it. They said something along the lines of "Well, first you buy the home, then it needs new drapes and furniture, and the next thing you know, you're missing meetings so you can have all these material things."
They didn't take into consideration that we were living in a 10x50 mobile home that was thirty years old, infested with mice, had rotten floorboards and resident WEASELS living under the bath tub and in one closet (I kid you not), or that our only source of heat was a woodburning stove that often went out at night (we did have indoor plumbing, though, because I asked for it for a wedding gift, lol).
And did I mention, we had a three year-old and a newborn living in this? Oh, and did I say their attitudes changed totally when we hired one of the elders to build the house? Suddenly they were all for it (picture me rolling my eyes, lol).
Hey-you made a good investment. If you have the resources to have a fireplace and the size of house you feel comfortable with, you've EARNED it.
Congratulations, by the way!!! Hope your vision becomes a reality:)