"Love ketchup on....rice. Learned that from a German brother when I lived overseas."
I learned that mustard tastes pretty good on french fries when I lived there. It seemed a little odd at first, but they have some awesome mustards there.
I am a Tabasco AND salsa person. I'm not a big ketchup fan.
Cicatrix
JoinedPosts by Cicatrix
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64
ketchup on your eggs-poll
by zev ini dont know if its my n.e.
upbringing, but how many of you out there enjoy a little ketchup with your eggs.
tabasco sauce doesn't count.
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Cicatrix
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Saturday morning house to house not good enought anymore!
by XQsThaiPoes injust came from the assembly.
they critisized us for going house to house implying that it was cheating the system and just a way to get fs hours with out talking to people.
now they want jws to do mostly bus and business witnesses in the afternoon during weekdays.
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Cicatrix
LOL Blondie. I wonder why we never heard those scriptures pontificated on. I only remember hearing something about gluttony in connection with all you can eat buffets in restaurants during convention times.
I wonder how much of this has to do with the fact that they are turning people off at the door, and how much of it has to do with legalities.They've been turning people off at the door for over a hundred years, and it hasn't bothered them much before.
I remember odd talks from the CO and DO the last couple of years I was in about trespassing signs, and that we are entering the properties at our own risk. They stated very carefully and plainly that the WTS would not assume any responsibility for any legal action a publisher had taken against them (yet at the same time somehow made the publishers feel guilty if they chose not to go to houses with the signs. So, everyone in my area, who were too poor to hire lawyers and deal with legal headaches, quit going to places with no trespassing signs. People caught on and started putting up more no trespassing signs, lol.And suddenly when the CO and DO came, the emphasis was on parking lot work (as if one couldn't get in trouble doing that-geesh). Well, by the next visit, the stores had clearly posted signs about solicitors, and specifically included religious solicitors in some places (don't know how legal that was of them, but they did it).
And the whole "learn to speak another language" thing was emphasized in the last couple of years I was in, too. I guess you stand better odds of reaching people who are relative newcomers to the country, or who have a language barrier that may prevent them from reasoning on issues such as how they handle child abuse. Also, I imagine they are hopeful that people who have probably just moved thousands of miles aways frm their families will be more amenable to changing their religions since they don't have the influence of their family members to counter the stuff the WTS tells them. -
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WT Now actively encouraging Education Awake Oct 8th
by stillajwexelder intake a look at awake october 8th page 11 --- bullet point "try to get some education" "the wise are the ones that treasure up knowledge," says proverbs 10:14. while it is especially true of bible knowledge, it is also true of secular education.
you need to develop the necessary skills to make a living --------- .
--------- nicole was later able to get training to support herself as a paralegal.
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Cicatrix
"Nicole was later able to get training to support herself as a paralegal. -------- Study courses by correspondence may prove practical."
Notice that the example given was that of pursuing paralegal certification. That usually takes two years at most, and if you can manage it by correspondence and stay away from all those "worldly" people, how much more the better.
Technical training and any certification program that aren't over about two years in duration are tolerated, but the elders will ride you about your field service time and personal study time the whole duration. I watched someone get dropped from a nursing program because they couldn't find enough time to do the necessary study, due to "theocratic" activities.This person had two small kids to support, but Jehovah had to come first.
Four year degrees, or graduate school are absolutely looked down upon. Some who are prominent in the congregaton manage to go without too much flack, but if you are already considered "weak" you will be game for becoming "bad association" really quickly.Especially if you are a serious student and refuse to give up your study time.
Been there, did that, lol. -
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If its good, God did it... if its bad Satan did it....
by Elsewhere in.
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i've read the bible and i don't recall satan himself actually ever doing anything evil or harmful... however i read many accounts where god killed or tormented countless thousands of people for arbitrary reasons.. aside from prophecies where jehover says that satan will hurt people in the future (hasn't happened yet, and no sign that it will happen), can anyone cite an example in the bible where satan actually harmed anyone?.
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Cicatrix
"In the overall story, who is the "good guy" and who is the "bad guy"?
Everything I read in the bible keeps telling me that the "God" character in the story is a brutal dictator who wants slaves who will blindly obey him and who will torture and kill anyone who defies him. Satan, on the other had, seems to want to grant everyone freedom."
This is why I think it does matter whether you think of the Bible as being even partly literal or not. Who the "good guy" is and who the "bad guy" is depends a lot on whether you identify yourself with and accept this particular world view, or if you view yourself as more of an outsider.
If you view the Bible as the literal word of God, you probably have no problem with the idea of dedicating yourself wholly to the God of the Bible. In this view, anything He does would been seen as being for the greater good, even if it does amount to killing people.God is seen as all-knowing, and loving, and that as the creator of all things, has the ultimate say over what will happen to His creation. This is a reflection of what happens in our time, when there are wars that must be fought. Some people think that the ends justify the means, that sometimes there must be sacrifice of the lives of despots and their supporters for the eventual greater good (the identification of the despots and their supporters being divided by political, religious, and ideological lines and deeds). Other people think that loss of life is never good, that it is our ideology about war that must evolve.
Who is right? Well, both sides really. But it often depends on circumstances which way society as a whole leans.
Same with good versus evil in the Bible. Some will distinctly separate the two entities-that God is all good and Satan is all bad (and heartily condemn others who don't think their way). Others will read the same thing and think that it depends on the issue, or decide that the accounts in the Bible are symbolic, meant to encourage us to examine events issue by issue (and heartily condemn people who take the Bible literally). And yet others think that there really would be no knowledge of what is good without its opposite being present, that Satan is just the shadow aspect of God.
A lot depends on an individual's own life experiences.And views on this can change as a person's experiences change.
We can look at our own lives, too. I don't think I'm all good, that's for damn sure. I can be vindictive, outraged, looking for justice. I can be altruistic, forgiving, and loving. Sometimes I can be everything at once (especially if my children are concerned, lol).
I don't know if that helps any. I'm just throwing out lots of theories today. -
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If its good, God did it... if its bad Satan did it....
by Elsewhere in.
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i've read the bible and i don't recall satan himself actually ever doing anything evil or harmful... however i read many accounts where god killed or tormented countless thousands of people for arbitrary reasons.. aside from prophecies where jehover says that satan will hurt people in the future (hasn't happened yet, and no sign that it will happen), can anyone cite an example in the bible where satan actually harmed anyone?.
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Cicatrix
LT,
"Who said it was a test?
That would be contrary to scripture (James 1:13)."
Good point.I was aware of that scripture, hence my confusion. But that still doesn't really answer why God put the trees in the garden in the first place (Gen.3:9), told Adam and Eve to stay away from them,then when Eve was decieved by the snake,greatly increased Eve's pain in childbirth, caused her to have problems with her hubby, and kicked her and Adam out of the garden so they couldn't eat from the other tree.To me, the "I" statement indicates that he did this directly and deliberately (for whatever reason he had), not that it was simply a consequence of the actions they chose to take.
I could understand it if the trees were just there in the first place. But Genesis specifically mentions that those trees were put in the Garden by God, and they are mentioned by their names, not just as "trees".
I guess I'm looking at this from the viewpoint of being a mother. I wouldn't expect young children to stay away from something that would cause their death, I would remove the death dealing thing from their area, or remove them from the death dealing thing BEFORE they got themselves in trouble with it. Or not bring it into the area where they were in the first place, if it was within my control.
"Under the Christian framework "grace" would surely be necessary to allow "free will" to work the other way too, wouldn't it?"
But why do humans need grace to begin with, if the whole Garden thing was not a test, and they are created in God's image? Aren't people fine the way they are, or is it a spirtual evolutionary kinda thing? Can you give me some sort of example of what you mean by grace? It's been a long time since I've dealt with the subject of grace, though I did learn a bit about it as a child before I joined the JWs. In my background, grace was equated with forgiveness and mercy, which needed to be applied because humans inherited sin from Adam and Eve.
"Try substituting "Christ" for "tree of life", in the Genesis account, and see if that does anything for you, regarding the concept of grace over works."
Ahh, "Christ" and the "tree of life" are an interesting correlation. Thanks for giving me something to think about.I don't have a problem with the grace over works thing. Even as a JW, I never bought into the works thing.It's the free will issue that I constantly ruminate on:)
"It's good to question our preconceptions, especially when they've been given us by the WTS."
I think so, too. I tend to think more along the lines of universal symbols, though, so maybe I need to hone in on particulars a bit more. I've noticed the correlation between the world tree and divinty/messiahs/avatars/shamans in many mythologies, and have wondered about many of the shamanistic aspects of Christ. The new correlation you suggested between Christ and the tree of life has piqued my interest even more.
Thanks, Little Toe. I love when my brains hurt from thinking about new concepts someone has introduced me to:) -
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If its good, God did it... if its bad Satan did it....
by Elsewhere in.
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i've read the bible and i don't recall satan himself actually ever doing anything evil or harmful... however i read many accounts where god killed or tormented countless thousands of people for arbitrary reasons.. aside from prophecies where jehover says that satan will hurt people in the future (hasn't happened yet, and no sign that it will happen), can anyone cite an example in the bible where satan actually harmed anyone?.
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Cicatrix
Undercover,
I view the Bible as mythological, which is a combination of morality stories and
the history of a certain group of peoples, viewed through the somewhat slanted lenses of said peoples.Like all of us human beans, sometimes they are honest, sometimes they are combining fact and fiction, and sometimes they are telling some really vivid tall tales.
We can learn as much or more sometimes about human nature from stories than we can from reality. Sometimes "reality" can be explained better in story form than with dry facts;) -
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Pyramids vs the Flood
by ezekiel3 inhistorians and scientists agree: the egyptian pyramids were built between 2500 - 2100 bc.
we even have some astronomical evendence that this is true: http://www.robertbauval.com/articles/gpdating.html.
jws teach that:the flood occured at 2370 bcestimates that the tower of babel was constructed around 2189 bcjoseph was sold into slavery 1750 bc (eventually to eygpt, already established as a world power).
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Cicatrix
"So, in 230 years you get the wonder of the world and a complete civilization? Talk about a quick-build."
ROFLMAO! The ultimate quick build.No wonder the early WTS fathers tried to claim it as some sign from Jehovah. Too bad it was Pagan and they can't use the example of the slaves who built the pyramids to urge the brothers and sisters to "do more" in the quick build work.
Great thread, btw! Thanks to all you historians who contributed. -
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Visions..
by StinkyPantz inyou have several vivid visions.
in the visions a person/entity tells you that s/he is god.
when this happens you are awake and you have not deliberately ingested any drugs.
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Cicatrix
Does it really matter from whence it came, if the message is positive and brings you peace?
"Those who know It speak of It not, those who speak of It know It not."
~Vedas
I agree with Sirona and Gently Feral on this one.
I'm glad you'e willing to keep an open mind, 'cause believe me, you'll need one if it actually happens to you;) -
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If its good, God did it... if its bad Satan did it....
by Elsewhere in.
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i've read the bible and i don't recall satan himself actually ever doing anything evil or harmful... however i read many accounts where god killed or tormented countless thousands of people for arbitrary reasons.. aside from prophecies where jehover says that satan will hurt people in the future (hasn't happened yet, and no sign that it will happen), can anyone cite an example in the bible where satan actually harmed anyone?.
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Cicatrix
Hi Undercover,
Glad to see I'm not the only one who's confused about this:) -
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If its good, God did it... if its bad Satan did it....
by Elsewhere in.
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i've read the bible and i don't recall satan himself actually ever doing anything evil or harmful... however i read many accounts where god killed or tormented countless thousands of people for arbitrary reasons.. aside from prophecies where jehover says that satan will hurt people in the future (hasn't happened yet, and no sign that it will happen), can anyone cite an example in the bible where satan actually harmed anyone?.
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Cicatrix
"Also, how do we know that Adam and Eve weren't forgiven?
We know that they had actions and consequences (from the story) but why does that preclude them taking advantage of "grace"?"
Good point, LT, but if "free will" were truly such, why would we need "grace" in the first place? This is what confuses the heck out of me!
Also, why would God feel inclined to set up a test by putting the tree of knowledge and the tree of life in the garden in the first place? To me, that's akin to putting a cake on the table and telling your hungry three year old not to touch it:) Paul said that God doesn't need anything from humans, so why this need to test humans by demanding obedience?