Posts by jst2laws

9

The age of Enlightenment seems to be over.

by Norm in

jw
friends

an excellent british author francis wheen has written a humorous yet very serious book on how enlightenment has lost out to what he calls ?mumbo jumbo among most people.. in his book ?how mumbo jumbo conquered the world a short history of modern delutions?

he demonstrates how widespread this is.

comparing the presidents back 200 years ago with the ones running in the election of 2000 he notes: .

jst2laws

Norm,

Thanks, this book requires an unscheduled trip to Amazon.com.

I have recently read The Godless Constitution (Isaac Kramnick and R. Laurence Moore), Battle for God (Karen Armstrong) and started Free Minds. I'm getting the historical picture that explains what is wrong with America. Basically, IT NEVER WAS WHAT THE WORLD THOUGHT IT TO BE. I'm very disillusioned to arrive at this conclusion but here is why:

It was partly founded by religious fanatics seeking freedom of religion. We are the rejected religious fanatics of England and Europe. Don't forget the difference in pilgrims and Puritans. The colonies were all established as "Christian" commonwealths. Then we had the misfortune of going through two Christian "Awakenings" the same century we won freedom as a nation. The mainstream of this country has always been extremely Christian, protestant at that, even intolerant of Catholics until the mid 1800's.

Meanwhile in the 1700's, being more of a republic than a true democracy, the leadership was highly educated and secular. They were children of the Enlightenment. According to Karen Armstrong the leaders only played nice with religious leaders in the late 1700's so as to get the support of the common people in fighting the revolution against Britton. Most of the founding fathers were deist but spoke fervently about God and Freedom to unite the people. Then after gaining freedom, they were able, with great difficulty, to get the first federal constitution ratified that left God and Religion completely out of the process. This is NOT what the majority of the people wanted but the state representatives who ratified the constitution, mostly educated and rational, saw the wisdom in separating church and state with no "test of religion" requirements for state and federal positions.

So time and circumstances contributed to the first godless Constitution, but the people did not change. In fact it appears, as in the book you quote above, that the United States has fallen far behind Europe as far as being a truly secular state. It just sickens me.

Thanks for the great excerpts. And Belmonts, good to hear from you.

Jst2laws

40

Former JW Conference, October 21-24 in Wenatchee WA.

by jst2laws in

you are invited to attend a conference of former jws october 21-24 at 1835 n. western in wenatchee wa 98801. this is an annual event organized by richard rawe and his associates.

richard is the exjw who's story was portrayed in the "good faith" off broadway play.

if you are like me the word conference conjures feeling associated the word convention.

jst2laws

Just an update on the Wenatchee conference,

Below you will find a map locating the conference. It is being hosted by the Church of God located at 1835 North Western.

For those interested this site provides several hotels and rates. For those on a budget Richard Rawe has noted that the Canna Motel has been totally reconditioned and is $35 a night. (509-246-0703 or 509-546-1917)

http://hotel-guides.us/washington/wenatchee-wa-hotels.html for more hotels

Starts Thursday at 9:00 am

Jst2laws

7

MEPS- Multilanguage Electronic Phototypesetting System, the early story

by jst2laws in

jw
friends

the following is in response to requests on vm44's thread regarding what i know of the watchtower's highly touted multilanguage electronic phototypesetting system.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/79435/1290234/post.ashx#1290234

i was close to the two original developers but left bethel before this project took off.

jst2laws

Roy,

Sorry, I don't know Patrick. I was long gone by then as far as being a regular bethelite. I came back to bethel frequently doing temporary work until the late 80's but I don't remember a Patrick Ware.

Jst2laws

37

Watchtower Computer Engineering Research Lab

by VM44 in

jw
friends

does anyone know anything about the watchtower's computer engineering research lab?.

there was one once, when they designed and built their own system for composing and formatting text.. where was it?

how many people staffed the facility?.

jst2laws

IT and Observador

jst2laws,
That's very interesting, would love to hear more when you get round to it!

and

Jst2laws,

"I have been off line for some time. Perhaps some day I will put together a more detailed account going back to 1976."

It would be nice to read this account!

Observador.

Couldn't sleep tonight. Its about 4:00 am and I just put up the following account.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/79508/1290937/post.ashx#1290937

Jst2laws

7

MEPS- Multilanguage Electronic Phototypesetting System, the early story

by jst2laws in

jw
friends

the following is in response to requests on vm44's thread regarding what i know of the watchtower's highly touted multilanguage electronic phototypesetting system.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/79435/1290234/post.ashx#1290234

i was close to the two original developers but left bethel before this project took off.

jst2laws

The following is in response to requests on VM44's thread regarding what I know of the Watchtower's highly touted Multilanguage Electronic Phototypesetting System. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/79435/1290234/post.ashx#1290234 I was close to the two original developers but left bethel before this project took off. What happened after that point is what these key players told me which may include some hype and fluff to make themselves or the WT look good. I welcome correction and clarification if you can add to this account. My association with these people started when we were all young, 1975, serving on a machine design teem for Brooklyn Bethel. Reiner Holm, John Ekran and I made up a committee engaged in converting a Smyth Book Binding line to bind two books at one time. The pocket size books were small enough to run two through the feeder of each machine in this consecutive series of processes that took a set of sewn signatures to the end product of a finished book. We were also trying to connect the three machines (rounder, backliner and casing-in) to automatically feed to the next, eliminating the need take a few more "pioneers" from the precious field work to stand at a machine feeding books into it. Holm was the lead man and electrical specialist. Ekran was on the team, although not a machine designer or machinist, because of his experience as a bindery mechanic. I was on the team as a machinist. Holm was a German Gilead Grad who was unable to get into his missionary assignment because of VISA problems so he stayed on at bethel working out of the machine shop. His specialty was electronics, college educated and into computers. At that time Ekran and I knew nothing of electronics or computers but we were interested. Holm was glad to teach us so Ekran and I started with a course in radio and TV electronics with the help of Holm. Computer electronics was next. This was in the mid 70's so to use what you learned you had to go out and buy parts and build a computer. The three of us loved to shop at the salvage electronics shops in lower Manhattan and Brooklyn near the factory. This is where Reiner got the parts to build his first computer. Shortly afterward Ekran did the same. This is where I left the team and bethel. While I loved working with these guys I was the only one of the group married at that time. I was also the one of the three who loved scriptural debates, philosophy and science. As you can imagine with the changes bethel was going through I was starting to feel out of sorts and left bethel just a few years before Chris and Norma Sanchez, Rene Vasquez, Ed Dunlap and Ray Franz were unceremoniously booted from bethel. Somewhere about 1978 the news had reached the right people that these two were doing their own ministry school scheduling, attendant scheduling and accounts on their home built computers in their bethel room. Having been in machine design for some years it was natural to raise the question if these hobby toys could be used to aid in type setting and printing. They received their new assignment at Watchtower farm to develop software, presumably to run on an IBM mainframe, that would allow them to pour text of several different languages into the society's two column page format with preset graphics. This seemed simple enough but three major projects emerged as a side affect of the original purpose.

1 Fonts had to be created for each language. This was a major project not only because fonts were not readily available then as now, but because each of the many thousands of fonts for the Japanese language had to be created a pixel at a time. 2 To assist in the leap from raise letter printing to lithographic printing it was natural to include in the process a laser plate etching machine. Once the digital product was ready for printing it was sent a page at a time to a printer, similar to a modern laser printer, however the image was shot onto a zinc coated metal plate. This was then etched by acid and the result was several printing plates, one for each of the three colors per page, ready to put on the press. 3 As a side project these two used part of their budget to make several Personal Computers that would handle this project. This was unauthorized and in time caused some battling in bethel between the MEPS team and the data processing department. The PC's could be built cheaply (later they started buying Compaq PCs) and sent to other branches that did printing. This eventually raised doubt as to justifying the cost of the IBM mainframe installed in Brooklyn. As I understand, to the chagrin of Ed Sainthill, the mainframe was removed in the mid eighties as micro computers proved sufficient for the job.

Once they were able to demonstrate to the GB that it could be done (late 70's) then a business was established with Gary Horn, brother-in-law of factory assistant overseer Cal Chyke. Cal tried to get me to work with Horn on a design project I was doing for the society back in 1970. I was able to play the political system so as to keep the project in-house. On the MEPS project I suspect it was best that Horn was involved as he was much more experience than Holm and Ekran in the mechanics side of MEPS. I suspect there were many others who came and went while this was happening who contributed much to its development, perhaps some even more qualified then those in charge. That was common at bethel. However I suspect everything they produced is outdated and discarded. Of the design work I did for them all that remains is a picture on a Watchtower post card. MEPS was bragged on frequently by the Watchtower in the 1980's. I do not know enough about the history of computers and their link to lithographic plate making to say if their boasts were justified. Perhaps others like Cyberguy can enlighten us on that. However, I do know these two men were sincerely working for "kingdom interest". They were both honest and self sacrificing. John was especially humble. Now both are in their 50's. Considering Bill Gates is the same age and sold his first operating system about the time MEPS began, I would sympathize with these men if they were to wake up to the truth about the "truth" at this late date. I hope they truly enjoyed their life and work since we went different directions 25 years ago. At least that would be a consolation. If you know Holm or Ekran I hope you pass this on to them with the URL. I would love to help my old friends discover there IS life outside the Watchtower. Jst2laws

37

Watchtower Computer Engineering Research Lab

by VM44 in

jw
friends

does anyone know anything about the watchtower's computer engineering research lab?.

there was one once, when they designed and built their own system for composing and formatting text.. where was it?

how many people staffed the facility?.

jst2laws

There have been so many tales about the developement of MEPS. I have heard, as Narcissos, that a group of bros with IBM developed it. I also heard that a group of brains from Japan came to Brooklyn to produce it.

Briefly, It was the project of Reiner Holm and John Ekran who were sent to the WT farm with a minimal budget to produce a demonstration of what they thought they could do. About a year later the GB approved the project with enthusiasm and a real budget. Holm was the computer science nut. Ekran was into software.

Gary Horn, if I remember correctly, was related to Cal Chyke, factory administration. He lived near WT farm and had the manufactoring expertise. The project was intitially to produce software to "pour" text of any language into the WT page format. With Horns help it soon included a lazer photo electric system for making lithographic printing plates. As a side project they also produced low cost PCs that could do the work so they eventually phased out the IBM (I thought it a was very expensive mainframe).

Holm has left Bethel. Ekran, last I heard, is still there in charge of informations systems. I understand Gary Horn was given the licence to use MEPS commercially. I don't know if it is true that they have dropped MEPS for commercial software, but I would not be surprised.

I have been off line for some time. Perhaps some day I will put together a more detailed account going back to 1976.

Jst2laws

20

Bonnie and Berta Go to France!

by Farkel in

yep.

the saga of bonnie boyd and berta peale is now translated into french and about to invade the land of great food and crappy politics!.

rutherford demasque : l?affaire berta et bonnie.

jst2laws

Farkel, you are a top notch Watchtower Apostate

Jst2laws

132

Why does God need to be worshiped?

by Scully in

just curious about this question today and wondered if anyone else has pondered this.. is worship meant to be a reverent show of appreciation for life that god imparts to individuals?

if that's the case, and someone - by the mere accident of their birth - has a truly crappy life, why should these people worship god or show him "appreciation" for their unfortunate circumstances?

why should anyone who endures hardships worship god, particularly if they have been worshiping god and then all of a sudden a heap of trouble just plops into their lives, unannounced and unwelcome??.

jst2laws

Karen Armstrong in her book "History of God" opens in chapter one saying

"In the biggening man created god"

Perhaps because mankind is ensecure we created an ensecure god who needs attention and praise.

We also created a proud god who felt his name and personal vindication was more important than human life.

I too believe most of all sacred stories are nothing more than sacred stories. Beat me up if you will, but they are nevertheless a journey of mankind's to discover the 'First Cause', the 'ultimate reality' of which the god concept is a primative manifestation.

Jst2laws

14

?The Organization? Denied Us Holy Spirit

by jst2laws in

i have found that jw?s and most former jw?s have a distorted view of how the holy spirit works.

after years of hearing the ?mind numbing?

phrase ?jehovah?s spirit directed organization?

jst2laws

Ross, Try this:

But when they are leading YOU along to deliver YOU up, do not be anxious beforehand about what to speak; but whatever is given YOU in that hour, speak this, for YOU are not the ones speaking, but the holy spirit is Mark 13:11

But when they are leading YOU along to deliver YOU up, do not be anxious beforehand about what to speak; but whatever is given YOU in that hour, speak this, for YOU are not the ones speaking, but the holy spirit is Mark 13:11

The scriptural plan is the answer will be "given YOU" as to what to speak. It is not something given by the organization in advance preparation but 'given you IN THAT HOUR'.

I am telling the truth in Christ; I am not lying, since my conscience bears witness with me in holy spirit Rom 9:1

I am telling the truth in Christ; I am not lying, since my conscience bears witness with me in holy spirit Rom 9:1

On conscience issues we were never allowed to decide for ourselves but had to look of a WT ruling, as the org was "spirit directed". Scripturally we are to our own 'conscience' make the judgment "in holy spirit".

Jst2laws

14

?The Organization? Denied Us Holy Spirit

by jst2laws in

i have found that jw?s and most former jw?s have a distorted view of how the holy spirit works.

after years of hearing the ?mind numbing?

phrase ?jehovah?s spirit directed organization?

jst2laws

I have found that Jw?s and most former Jw?s have a distorted view of how the holy spirit works. After years of hearing the ?mind numbing? phrase ?Jehovah?s spirit directed organization? we forgot how the spirit really works.

We accepted the 1985 change in the baptismal questions acknowledging the Father and Son but relegating the spirit?s to guiding the ?spirit directed organization?

On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?

The second is:

Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah?s Witnesses in association with God?s spirit-directed organization?

WT 1986 6/1 p30

While we now know this was wrong here is the SHOCKER:

SCRIPTURALLY the spirit of God NEVER OPERATES ON AN ORGANIZATION OR ON A CHURCH.

It only ?moves?, ?fills? or operates on INDIVIDUALS.

Do a word search on WT Library with quotations marks ( ?holy spirit? ) and you will find no reference to congregation, association or organization. It always operates on INDIVIDUAL people.

Try and see what you get. Share some examples with us.

Jst2laws