Presiding Overseers are now Coordinator of the Body of Elders
Aw geeze, really? Guess I haven't been keeping up with 'noo lite'!
Posts by Mary
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44Find What Your Social Status Was in the Congregation
by Mary inever notice how the "happiest people on earth" are also the most class-oriented?
the social structure in the congregation is more complex than the blueprints of a nuclear warhead, but just so that you "remember your place", see if you can find where your niche was/is:.
1. at the top of the social order of things within the congregation is of course, the presiding overseer and his family.
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Mary
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A QUESTION FOR JW'S who say, "The brothers were overly zealous" about 1975
by Terry in"what was the actual significance of that year, then?".
if jw's were overly zealous, what was the exact amount of zeal encouraged by the wts for a non-event which took up.
over 7 years of every jw's time?.
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Mary
Oh dear. I had a conversation with a JW elder on-line about this very thing a couple of years ago. I won't bore you with the entire conversation, but here's part of it on Amazon in a book about the WTS:
JW: As for the so-called 1975 fiasco, I was there and a presiding overseer/presiding pastor of a congregation and I KNOW hat was said and taught. NO statement saying 1975 would be the End, NO statement saying that an Angel said, in a vision we were told, etc. In fact note what was said to us.
At a convention held in Baltimore, Maryland, F. W. Franz gave the concluding talk. He began by saying: "Just before I got on the platform a young man came to me and said, `Say, what does this 1975 mean?'" Brother Franz then referred to the many questions that had arisen as to whether the material in the new book meant that by 1975 Armageddon would be finished, and Satan would be bound. He stated, in essence: `It could. But we are not saying. All things are possible with God. But we are not saying. And don't any of you be specific in saying anything that is going to happen between now and 1975. But the big point of it all is this, dear friends: Time is short. Time is running out, no question about that.' Notice: "But we are not saying, And don't any of you be specific in saying anything that is going to happen between now and 1975."
That was our official position. What some may have said is beyond anyone's control, but the WTS NEVER made the claim Rhodes and others try to infer we did.
Me: Did you even bother reading what I wrote? I gave you the SPECIFIC example of what Wisconsin Sheboygan District Overseer Brother Charles Sunutko SAID to the audience of Witnesses during a PUBLIC TALK in 1967. If you somehow missed this, this is what was said:
"...Well now, as Jehovah's Witnesses, as runners, even though some of us have become a little weary, it almost seems as though Jehovah has provided meat in due season. Because he's held up before all of us, a new goal. A new year. Something to reach out for and it just seems it has given all of us so much more energy and power in this final burst of speed to the finish line. And that's the year 1975. ... Well, we don't have to guess what the year 1975 means if we read the Watchtower. ...And don't wait 'till 1975. The door is going to be shut before then....As one brother put it, "Stay alive to Seventy-Five..."
What part of that don't you get? If the Organization never claimed anything about 1975, then where did all the Witnesses get this idea from in the first place? Huh? And please don't bother trying to say that he `must have said this on his own', because as a District Overseer, he would have the outline of his talk that came straight out of Brooklyn Bethel. It.was.said and for you to SIT there and type a bold-faced LIE trying to claim that the Organization never stated that 1975 would be the end just demonstrates the depth of your delusions and the extent you will go to in order to cover up their false
predictions.No Witness is allowed to make independent predictions, especially by way of a public talk. Anyone who said something so outrageous as the District Overseer said above without the full approval of the Bethel, would have been in major trouble for daring to go beyond what the Governing Body approved of and you and I both know it. He probably would have been disfellowshipped for `apostasy' for telling thousands of Witnesses that Armageddon was coming in 1975 if the Governing Body didn't whole-heartedly approve of him saying that.
I have asked you repeatedly the same question which you have so far refused to answer: How can someone have God's Holy Spirit on them, call themselves 'prophets' (even in the basic sense as you are trying to claim), tell people that The End is right around the corner for the past 130 years, print countless books and magazine that in fact, DO try to predict the future, but claim you don't call yourselves "prophets? '
JW: if as you seem to think he is repeating what he was told to say by the GB (Governing Body of JW's) then it contradicted the clear quote I gave from the V.P. (GB member) Of the WTS, so that doesn't fit either. If it had been a manuscript he and every D.O. would have said exactly the same
thing and they didn't. It wasn't said at the District Convention I attended that year, nor at the one my wife, then much younger and not married to me, attended. It was an isolated instance, if true, he said what he wanted not what he was told to say. Outlines gave general direction and the speaker filled in with his thoughts. That has changed now and virtually every talk is a manuscript, because some went too far with their own thoughts.How would you know any of this? Your name indicates a woman and you would not have been a servant where such matters were discussed. You would not have been a speaker, as I was, where a misstep will get you counseled about it but NOT disfellowshipped. The only way he would be disfellowshipped would have been if he insisted he was right and the WTS wrong and he was going to teach that. Then after repeated counsel he would have been removed as a servant/elder/pastor.
Me: what you have is called 'selective amnesia' where you choose to pointedly ignore written documentation from that time because it's inconvenient and embarassing for you. Every Witness in the late 1960s and early 1970s knows that there was a huge build-up to 1975 and that this idea came from what was written in the literature and what was said from the platform. This was NOT an 'isolated' case as you are pathetically trying to assert---it happened in all congregations and you and I both know it. The fact that you are lying through your teeth by trying to state that it didn't happen, that it was only a few people who were going out on their own and promoting this idea, is nauseating and incredibly deceitful. I believe though, you call it "theocratic warfare" (roll of eyes).
This was no isolated case. I know many Witnesses from many parts of North America and even Europe who remember those years leading up to 1975. Some, like you, choose to have the selective amnesia by ignoring all the quotes that were in the literature at the time that most definitely pointed to 1975 as being "The End", but most realize that Organization made predictions that they should have never made. After they lost a tremendous number of followers in the following years, even the top guns were forced to acknowledge that they were at least partially to blame for the fiasco:
"With the appearance of the book Life Everlasting-in Freedom of the Sons of God, and its comments as to how appropriate it would be for the millennial reign of Christ to parallel the seventh millennium of man's existence, considerable expectation was aroused regarding the year 1975. ... Unfortunately, however, along with such cautionary information, there were other statements published that implied that such realization of hopes by that year was more of a probability than a mere possibility." Watchtower 1980 Mar 15 p.17
So please don't sit there and try to tell me that what the District Overseer said at the assembly was only an 'isolated' case. Clearly, as the statement above shows, the Organization itself promoted this idea.* * *
Didn't hear back from the asshole after this.
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Mary
" how inappropriate it would be for any member of the congregation to react according to the world’s spirit, vehemently demanding “justice” or that “something be done.."
While this could cover any number of things---from someone defrauding you to adultery, I have a sneaky suspicion that this is aimed at parents whose children have been sexually molested by a fellow Dub but where nothing is done to the molester because there wasn't the all-important '2 eye witnesses'. It seems that more and more parents are not content to "leave it in Jehovah's hands" and they're going to the police themselves.
In addition to the Candice Conti case, there are at least 3 more sexual abuse lawsuits that have been filed against Crooklyn in the last few weeks. Not only are they getting really bad international press on the subject, but it's costing them alot of $$$.
"This could be likened to a patient---that does not like something about the doctor"
Ya. Kinda like the dickhead doctor I had that misdiagnosed my cancer for 2 frigging years. If I had not taken matters into my own hands, I wouldn't be sitting here today. Are they suggesting that we do whatever our doctor says, even when he/she doesn't know what they're doing and where they've had multiple complaints against them?
What a bunch of idiots.....
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Next time a JW tells you that you shouldn't let your children go to college ...
by EdenOne intell them this:.
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eden.
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Mary
Or you could even show them this fav from 45 years ago. See what they say:
Awake! 1969 May 22 p.15 - "If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things. Why not? Because all the evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years. ... Therefore, as a young person, you will never fulfill any career that this system offers. If you are in highschool and thinking about a college education, it means at least four, perhaps even six or eight more years to graduate into a specialized career. But where will this system of things be by that time? It will be well on the way toward its finish, if not actually gone!"
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Find What Your Social Status Was in the Congregation
by Mary inever notice how the "happiest people on earth" are also the most class-oriented?
the social structure in the congregation is more complex than the blueprints of a nuclear warhead, but just so that you "remember your place", see if you can find where your niche was/is:.
1. at the top of the social order of things within the congregation is of course, the presiding overseer and his family.
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Mary
JeffT said: The elder that officiated our wedding was like this. After a few years he couldn't take it anymore and quit being an elder.
Yep, it seems that those who were genuinely concerned about people got harassed by the other elders that didn't give a damn and they either end up stepping down before they have a nervous breakdown, or before they're forced out.
Hey Outlaw!
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Find What Your Social Status Was in the Congregation
by Mary inever notice how the "happiest people on earth" are also the most class-oriented?
the social structure in the congregation is more complex than the blueprints of a nuclear warhead, but just so that you "remember your place", see if you can find where your niche was/is:.
1. at the top of the social order of things within the congregation is of course, the presiding overseer and his family.
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Mary
they would stand up and object to things that they saw being done wrong and were willing to question things that weren't done properly.
Yep, I used to do that too. And then there would be the inevitable "Can we see you in the second school for a little chat?"
One of my best friends (now an ex-Dub) and I went to the elders about one of the elders' wives who was physically abusing another couples' 3 year old that she used to babysit. Despite the fact that there were half a dozen other sisters there that saw the abuse, none of them would say a word to the elders. Only my friend and I got in major shit for doing so.
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Find What Your Social Status Was in the Congregation
by Mary inever notice how the "happiest people on earth" are also the most class-oriented?
the social structure in the congregation is more complex than the blueprints of a nuclear warhead, but just so that you "remember your place", see if you can find where your niche was/is:.
1. at the top of the social order of things within the congregation is of course, the presiding overseer and his family.
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Mary
Ever notice how the "happiest people on earth" are also the most class-oriented? The social structure in the congregation is more complex than the blueprints of a nuclear warhead, but just so that you "remember your place", see if you can find where your niche was/is:
1. At the top of the Social Order of Things within the congregation is of course, the Presiding Overseer and his family. The wife is considered the First Lady and she knows absolutely everything that is going on in the congregation. Except that her teenage son is doing drugs and masturbating 6 times a day or that her daughter has a second wardrobe at school that resembles a hooker walking the Champs Elysees on New Year's Eve. She doesn't work outside of the home but she does go out in Service every Wednesday morning and possibly even some Tuesdays where she prays to Jehovah that whoever is taking the group doesn't stick her with anyone who's not in her clique or that single mother who misses half the meetings because she has to work three jobs to support her family.
2. Elders and Their Families Next on the list are the other elders and their families looming near the top. The brothers are usually a bunch of borderline alcoholics who don't really like their wives that much because they're always bugging them to make more money so that they can have the very latest in clothing and home furnishing, even though their credit cards are gasping for air. Some of their wives work, some don't. It depends on how much money their husbands managed to screw their worldly siblings out of when the parents died. Those that don't work outside the home might get together once a week for a "power breakfast" where they sit there for 3 hours and gossip about the other elder's wives who aren't there. None of them really like each other and they've been The Real Housewives of [fill in the blank] long before the series took off. Half of them are either bulimic or a bunch of drunks...I mean "social drinkers". They're tired of having sex with their husbands but would cut his balls off in an instant if he even thinks about another woman. They’re invited out to everyone’s home for dinner because there’s no better way to improve your social standing than to suck up to elite whether you like them or not. Their Visa cards are racked up to the max, but it's worth it to have another woman's envy.
3. Then come the wannabees and kiss asses. These are usually those that want to be an MS because they KNOW how to handle the mikes now god damn it, and they really feel that they can move on to bigger and better things. They go out in Service all the time just to show how spiritual they are and they ask those in higher positions what their opinion is on EVERYTHING from mowing the lawn to who gets to drink the wine after the memorial. This shows that they will do as they're told and that they are already practicing Elder Worship, a definite boost in climbing the social ladder. Generally speaking, these wannabees were laughed at in school and at their present jobs where their co-workers think they're nuts. They want a "position" where they can finally look down on everyone else, and find out the dirt on others in the Hall too by getting access to everyone's personnel files. They are at every single meeting and follow the CO around like a lost dog whenever he visits and would probably (literally) lick his ass if he permitted it.
4. Pioneer sisters. This is the only way for a single sister to have any sort of social prominence in the congregation and is a good excuse not to have to work full time. It also helps if you develop some sort of strange disease so you can get a disability cheque every month; that way, you don't have to work at all! Pioneering is also a good way to try and land a husband. Your position also means that you will get invited out to people's homes for supper because they feel sorry that you're still single and glad that you don't have enough brains to go get a real job.
5. Rank & File Family. This is the area that varies the most. The husband works full time and if necessary, so does the wife. They attend most meetings just to keep the elders off their backs but secretly feel like telling them to piss off when they start to question them. The mother is told what rotten, uncontrollable children she has and the father is constantly questioned as to why he doesn't keep up with getting his 10 hours in Service every month. Doesn't he want to advance in Jehovah's Organization?? Why can't he control his wife and kids?? The wife is counselled that perhaps she should quit her job and spend more time watching her children so that her daughter doesn't come home pregnant by some worldly boy. The R&F Family are invited out on an average of one or maybe two times every two months.
6. The In-betweens. This group borders on being low-lives, unless you can make a friend with someone higher up on the scale. It'll mean kissing their asses and dishing out compliments every 3 seconds, but it's the only way you can improve your social standing. Although you invite them over for supper on a continual basis, they usually will find some excuse not to come, unless there are going to be other cool people there as well. Be warned though, you'll have to bite your tongue with their 13 year old kid punches your 5 year old in the stomach, because telling socially prominent people their kids are rotten brats will get you kicked to the bottom of the spiritual food chain faster than a speeding bullet bouncing off Superman.
7. Slackers, Single Parents and Non-Pioneering Welfare Families. These people are the lowest of the low. Missing meetings on a regular basis makes you more invisible than Jesus' Return in 1914. Everyone else in the congregation looks down on you and will generally avoid you like the Plague unless they are unfortunate enough to have you as a Householder one night, or unless the CO is due for a visit. In that case, you might get a "shepherding call" from the elders just so they can tell the CO that you're a slacker and a loser and to cover their own ass. No one will offer to invite you over for dinner because you or one of your kids might steal something out of their house. No one wants to sit close to you at any of the meetings, and will never think to call you unless it's to invite you to a bridal shower that they're having a hard time getting anyone else to come to. Pioneering is a waste of your time and effort. There is no point in you even trying harder because everyone knows that Jehovah does not want losers like you in the New System.
8. College/University Attendees, Those that Can Think For Themselves. It's hard to believe that there's anyone more despised in the congregation that a slacker or single parent, but those who deliberately ignore the Governing Body's advise about 'higher education' risk any social standing they have and may as well change their names to Hymenaeus, Alexander, or Philetus. No one likes a smartass, and this is never more true than when a sister in the congregation knows more about a subject that the Presiding Overseer, unless it's related to sewing or cooking. The only way to redeem yourself is to immediately quit your studies and enter the full time Service. Even so, it'll take about 6 months for you to be forgiven.
Those who can think for themselves and question some doctrine that makes no sense better not let the door hit them on the way out. Obviously you are 'puffed up' with your knowledge and are just one step away from becoming Judas Iscariot. There is no middle ground here: either you stop asking questions to which there is no logical answer, or make an appointment for a lobotomy.
So where did you fit in? I was originally a #5 but quickly became an #8.
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what does jehovah eat ?
by bigmac inyeah yeah---i know--spiritual food.. .
or maybe---beans ( human beans ).
for those on here who still believe in a god---how do you perceive him / her / it ?.
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what does jehovah eat ?
by bigmac inyeah yeah---i know--spiritual food.. .
or maybe---beans ( human beans ).
for those on here who still believe in a god---how do you perceive him / her / it ?.
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a young 14 year old girl was disfellowshipped in my former congregation last week
by alexandre ina baptized girl from my former cong.
was expelled out because she participated in more than one porn videos with classmates in the school and theses videos became public.
she is 14 years old and grew up as witnesses.but anybody knows she had many boyfriends and she-, but that thing was unbelievable!
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Mary
So a 14 year old is involved in 'kiddie porn' which is probably splashed all over the internet by now and which means probably every male in her congregation has viewed it or at least actively searching for it (purely for scriptural reasons though!) And the answer for the elders is to DF her instead of trying to get her counselling? Gee, why am I not surprised?
Too bad they didn't go after pedophiles in the congregation with the same gusto and enthusiasm that they do a 14 year old girl........
