Posts by Chaserious

170

Sign this petition - Investigation On Jehovahs Witnesses Religious Policy That Violates Human Rights and Abuses Religious Freedom

by TJ Curioso in

launch an investigation on jehovahs witnesses religious policy that violates human rights and abuses religious freedom.

link.

Chaserious

The short answer is no, the Universal Declcaration of Human Rights can't be enforced. My take on the UDHR is that it's an aspirational document. It sets forth some nice things that we would all probably aspire to in the general sense. A lot of what it says is too general to actually "enforce." For example, the very first article says that "All human beings . . . should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood." I can't imagine how that would be enforced, and I'm not sure it would be a good idea to try. Trying to enforce one part of the UDHR, like the petition suggests, would arguably violate another portion, such as the one where people are free to practice the religion of their choosing. For Americans, maybe think of it like the Declaration of Independece. There's lot of nice sounding language, but it's not like you would think of going into court to try to enforce your right to the pursuit of happiness.

Also, it is absurd for whoever created this petition to suggest that the Watchtower is violating the U.S. criminal torture statute. Maybe a JW will accidentally read your petition and feel sad and depressed, so the petition drafters must be torturers also. Amateur hour...

7

Gene Smalley and the Watchtower's Blood Transfusion Doctrine

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

in recent years the legal dept.

isn't he, barr and barber the last of the old gb?

aug 22 1965, p. 18. but awake feb 22 1975, p. 30 may have reimposed it.

Chaserious

I'm sure he still is. He's a generation [standard definition] behind Jaracz, Barr, and Barber. I would say he'd be somewhere in his 70's now.

212

Candace Conti v Watchtower Society | June 3, 2013 | Respondent's Brief - prepared by Rick Simons | A136641

by jwleaks in

jw leaks has published the respondent's brief prepared by rick simons in the case: candace conti v. watchtower bible and tract society of new york & fremont congregation of jehovah's witnesses.

(90 pages).

http://jwleaks.org/candace-conti/.

Chaserious

No, it doesn't mean that anyone can submit a letter, at least not in the sense that you can expect it to be considered as past of the case. The judges don't post these items on the docket, so the fact that it appears does not mean that it will be considered or that the judges have read it. Generally, everything that is received from the parties is posted on the docket, which sometimes can even include things submitted by the parties that are improper or can't be considered. I'm not sure if all courts have a policy on unsolicited documents that arrive in the mail from someone other than a party. It could be that the court rule is to post everything on the docket for the sake of transparency, or it could be that this doesn't happen often and someone in the court clerk's office posted it by mistake.

212

Candace Conti v Watchtower Society | June 3, 2013 | Respondent's Brief - prepared by Rick Simons | A136641

by jwleaks in

jw leaks has published the respondent's brief prepared by rick simons in the case: candace conti v. watchtower bible and tract society of new york & fremont congregation of jehovah's witnesses.

(90 pages).

http://jwleaks.org/candace-conti/.

Chaserious

Regarding the letter from Joseph Herrera, just because they made a docket entry that an unsolicited letter was received doesn't mean they will consider whatever he submitted.

24

WTS Legal department ghouls

by stillin in

the society has certainly had their share of financial setbacks, especially in the pedophile department.

the legal department must actively save face and do damage control!.

i can't help but wonder how many wts attorneys are flying around to be present at estate hearings, bequeathment hearings, probate court, reading of wills, etc.

Chaserious

Stillin: Have you spoken to a lawyer about your situation yet? Not giving legal advice or telling you what to do, but you called it "our will," and also mentioned that you would change the will to exclude the WTS if you wife were to pass first. If you truly do have a mutual will, they are often set up so that one spouse can't change the will after the other spouse dies. The point is usually so that a less favored child (or a stepchild) can't be removed after one spouse dies. Only a lawyer who looks at your will can tell you how yours works. It would be a shame to be stuck with a will giving money to the WTS if it could be avoided.

9

Vermont To Tax Churches?

by metatron in

jw
friends

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/11/26/1255920/-vermont-moves-to-tax-churches.

woo-hoo!

i hope this starts a trend.. metatron.

Chaserious

BOTR, as to the FFRF case referred to by Sol Reform, it was out of Wisconsin, which is within the Seventh Circuit. I don't think that's an overly conservative circuit, outside of the well-known free-market judges. I initially wondered about the standing issue, which can be hard to come by if you are just asserting standing as a taxpayer, but after looking at the opinion, that wasn't the basis. The plaintiffs clearly calculated far in advance how to attack this particular statute. People like Marci Hamilton have been saying for a while that the Parsonage exemption is unconstitutional, but obviously striking it down is a small measure in the overall taxing discussion.

As to courts stepping in to eliminate tax exemptions, I think the prevailing view in that niche of the legal community is that it's not constitutionally mandated to either allow or prohibit property or income tax exemptions related to religion, and it should be left to state legislatures, in the case of property taxes, and Congress in the case of income tax exemptions. Aside from Justice Douglas's solo dissent in Walz v. Tax Commission, I don't think anyone in the upper eschelon of the courts has ever taken the position that it's unconstitutional. In fact, I suspect that if one of these laws does ever pass and allows tax breaks for charitable orgs but not churches, some kind of constitutional challenge would be launched by the church community on the basis that it's entanglement to inquire how much social benefit regiously affiliated organizations provide. Burger actually suggested that in Walz. I do think that in the end, if this form of subsidy is to end, it will have to be judicially. It's just too much of a minefield politically. I think it's possible that Douglas's reasoning might be vindicated in the end, and he might end up being 100 years ahead of the bend of history.

I also suspect that state laws on property tax exemptions would be more susceptible to eventual challenge in court than portions of the federal tax code.

9

Vermont To Tax Churches?

by metatron in

jw
friends

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/11/26/1255920/-vermont-moves-to-tax-churches.

woo-hoo!

i hope this starts a trend.. metatron.

Chaserious

I hope they do pass such a law, but I doubt it will happen. In the end, legislators have to vote for it and you can bet every church and other organization that would be affected by the law will encourage their members to flood the lawmakers' offices with calls and stage protests. The problem politically is that all of those people have an incentive to strongly oppose the law, whereas Joe taxpayer who would eventually save some tax dollars doesn't have the same incentive to rise up en masse and call for the taxes, or at least nobody will be organizing much advocacy on the other side.

Taxing all property equally is not entirely as foreign to American history as the person quoted in the article suggests, although you have to go back a while. In 1868 the California Supreme Court decided that the legislature could not exempt any private property from taxation, and religions paid taxes on their property from then until 1900. In the 19th Century, at least three Presidents opposed property tax exemption for religions.

It is often difficult to estimate how much taxes are being missed out on because they don't assess exempt properties. But recent studies have suggested the number is approaching $1 billion/year in New York City alone. For all the grousing in this country about excessive governmental budget defecits, it's interesting that these massive tax subsidies almost never even enter the conversation.

19

Why has nobody started a petition or writing letters to congress, etc?

by EndofMysteries in

i can't be in the spotlight as starting this because of a family member.

but i wonder why there is no big change.org type petition going on with hundreds of thousands of signatures, etc.

or putting together a nice letter about how jw's religion breaks up families, claims to want religious freedom but those of us born in, or just in, are forced to accept their lies and anything they say or get shunned, and the devastating emotional, etc, effects on people.

Chaserious

EOM, as problem addict said, the conduct of the WTS does not meet the legal definition of libel/slander/defamation the U.S. Their characterization of those who leave is morally reprehensible, but it isn't defamation. Defamation has to be more specific. The adage goes that if you defame a large group, you defame nobody.

What ABibleStudent said is probably the most realistic thing you can hope for - some alteration of tax exemption or tax deduction laws. He is right that the 1st Amendment may not be violated by that kind of approach, depending how it's implemented. At the same time I don't know whether it's feasible politically or practically to let some religions have tax breaks and others not to have them in the foreseeable future.

19

Why has nobody started a petition or writing letters to congress, etc?

by EndofMysteries in

i can't be in the spotlight as starting this because of a family member.

but i wonder why there is no big change.org type petition going on with hundreds of thousands of signatures, etc.

or putting together a nice letter about how jw's religion breaks up families, claims to want religious freedom but those of us born in, or just in, are forced to accept their lies and anything they say or get shunned, and the devastating emotional, etc, effects on people.

Chaserious

human sacrifices, child sex, etc

You aren't the first one to bring up this idea. The things you mentioned are illegal whether done in the name of religion or for some other reason. OTOH, nothing that JW's teach violate generally applicable laws in the U.S. "Brainwashing," as you call it, or "religious instruction" as they would characterize it, is not illegal. As anony mous said, you are free to join and leave even if you might not like the terms. Shunning is not illegal either. Congress couldn't do anything, and wouldn't want to in any event. There are no political points to be gained by going after religious groups (at least non-Muslim religious groups). Look at how much more wacky and dangerous Scientologists are, and how much has been done to "investigate" or "regulate" them. That should tell you all you need to know about how far anyone would get trying to get the government to go after them.

65

Disfellowshipped but still forced to pay maintenance or alimony

by Markw1509 in

can i ask for your opinion?

i have been disfellowshipped and divorced for a few years.

my ex-wife and my daughter have cut off all contact from me.

Chaserious

Is your daughter a minor or an adult? I'm not aware of any WT rule that says they can't take alimony from DF ex-husbands. They will take the money every time, probably reasoning that it's better that she has the money to use it for "kingdom interests."