Of course, I agree that it's not irresponsible to ask for clarification, especially by those considering donating. But the takeaway seemed to be that "anyone with a brain" should believe that a felony has been committed.
Chaserious
JoinedPosts by Chaserious
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Why isn't anyone on JWN invited to the Facebook discussion by AAWA tonight?
by wha happened? ini guess we're persona non grata now.
take a look at what i found on facebook:.
we're firing up the grill again!
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Why isn't anyone on JWN invited to the Facebook discussion by AAWA tonight?
by wha happened? ini guess we're persona non grata now.
take a look at what i found on facebook:.
we're firing up the grill again!
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Chaserious
Before you guys convict the AAWA people and sentence them to the electric chair, I would suggest that in general, when parties act with the advice of an attorney, those parties are far more likely to have correctly applied the law than non attorneys who try to interpret a statute on their own.
As an example, Las Malvinas and fizzywiglet have repeately quoted and linked to ARS 10-202. However, that is not the statute that AAWA was subject to when incorporating. They were subject to 10-3202, which is for nonprofit corporations. (verify here). 10-202 applies to for-profit corporations. Now, granted, it appears that 10-3202 also requires disclosure of names and addresses. However, I think this mistake makes the point that there may be law you are not aware of that an Arizona lawyer is aware of. If you want to make a complaint to Arizona officials and let them see if anything illegal was done, that seems fine but it seems rather irresponsible to conclude and proclaim that they have committed fraud.
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AAWA is here!! (The Association of Anti-Watchtower Activists)
by cedars inhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcic4g5tulw.
http://www.jwactivists.org.
facebook the association of anti-watchtower activists.
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Chaserious
I was not added on FB and I have no idea whether the involuntary adds were the fault of AAWA, people unrelated to AAWA, Facebook, or some combination of these. However, I think it is wrong to dismiss the potential harm done to those who may have been involuntarily "outed," or shift all of the blame to the organization that forces such secrecy in the first place.
First of all, I know of a number of people who have never been involved in the cult, who if they joined a Facebook group with "Anti-Catholic" or "Anti-Pope" or whatever in the name, it would cause significant family tension. I know "Anti-Watchtower" is not the same as "Anti-JW" but we all know that most on the inside would view it as the same. Secondly, people have all sorts of good reasons not to DA or openly oppose the organization, from family relations to inheritances and financial support to trying to wake up or help others out from within. I imagine AAWA would be sensitive to this, considering that the president only identifies with a pseudonym, and presumably would not be happy about it if someone posted his real name as the President of AAWA.
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Clawing out of poverty via (E)ducation, not education
by MTSman inokay, so i've been what i believe is called a, "lurker", on this site for about four years.
i honestly don't remember how i stumbled on to it, but i totally get everyone here.
i'm a, "born in", pinoneered for like six-teen years, servered where the need is great several times, and even went to the, as the name alludes to, mts before it became a watered down theocratic ministry school.
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Chaserious
Congrats on learning TTATT and on your determination to get a real education. This was an entertaining read too.
If you are set on law school, I feel compelled to warn you to do your research and apply and enroll with a plan. Maybe you have done your homework already, but I think in the current economy more unsuspecting students are put into poverty by going to law school than get out of poverty.
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AAWA ... It's not too late to change the name.... any suggestions?
by Calebs Airplane infirst, i'd like to express my deepest gratitude and appreciation to cedars, barbara and the rest of the staff who put this together... it's something we all hope will have great success in exposing the watchtower's continuous deception and manipulation.. however, i don't think it's too late to change the name to something less militant or less confrontational.... my humble suggestion is ... pafjw (pacifist association of former jehovah witnesses).
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ca.
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Chaserious
Nobody said suggestions are prohibited, but if the board met after numerous critiques of the name and decided to keep it, what gives you the impression that "It's not too late to change the name," as your title indicates?
My two cents is that the best name was the one suggested on the other thread, Activists Against Watchtower Abuse, thus keeping the same acronym, but as is their right, the creators of the group have decided to keep the name.
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Summary of WT Appeal Brief in Conti Case
by Chaserious in[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:officedocumentsettings> <o:allowpng /> </o:officedocumentsettings> </xml><!
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if they were able to win on this ground, they could get out completely (although it could still be appealed to the ca supreme court).
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Chaserious
14,000 is just the word limit set by California for an appeal brief unless you get approval to file a longer one. I can see how the number seems like it would not be a coincidence, though.
" A brief produced on a computer must not exceed 14,000 words, including footnotes ....
On application, the presiding justice may permit a longer brief for good cause."
http://www.courts.ca.gov/cms/rules/index.cfm?title=eight&linkid=rule8_204
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WTS action on Conti's case 3/27/2013
by mind blown inas most suspected, the wts filed their brief, at least it looks that way..... http://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/dockets.cfm?dist=1&doc_id=2025979&doc_no=a136641.
it also notes aob in excess of word count limit.. wonder if they did that to buy more time?.
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Chaserious
Can an attorney use quotes from these depositions in another case?
No, a witness from one case generally has to come and testify in another case if their testimony is going to be admitted. Otherwise, it's hearsay.
Also, let's say there was someone that was depositioned, but not awarded any money.
A gag order would only apply to the person entering into the agreement to settle.
With respect to the Conti case, there is no opportunity for either side to bring in new testimony at the appeals stage. The evidence is generally limited to what was introduced at the trial.
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The CO 'encourages' Julia to meet with THREE elders- the latest episode in the best-selling drama, The Fade of Julia Orwell.
by Julia Orwell init was yesterday morning and hubby and i were having a huge sleep in.
it was just after ten, and with me being a bit flu-ey i was quite capable of staying in bed longer.
hubby was feeling it too, and we were pleasantly drifting in and out to the sounds of birds.. then suddenly, cloomp, cloomp, cloomp up the front stairs, then "rap-rap-rap" on the front screen door, that rapid-fire, strong knock of the practiced door-knocker.
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Chaserious
Interesting.. and well-handled.
Can the CO take part in a JC with two local elders? I've never heard of that taking place before. It's my guess that part of the reason COs don't usually get involved is they want the process handled at a congregation level without Watchtower representatives involved.
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Summary of WT Appeal Brief in Conti Case
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if they were able to win on this ground, they could get out completely (although it could still be appealed to the ca supreme court).
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Chaserious
Yeah, I was a little surprised at first about the amount of work done behind the scenes by others. In my own experience, I think as an intern, the judge tended to assign me cases to research that weren't very complicated, or where the judge thought it was an easy call as to how it would turn out. The clerks did the more complicated issues.
I don't think that it could be challenged. As long as the judge is ultimately responsible for the vote and/or opinion, it seems that most judges have so many cases that it would be impossible for them to research, write and edit every opinion by themselves. Federal appeals judges as an example, all have 3 paid law clerks, each making in the area of $60,000 per year plus benefits. If the court system has decided to spend that much on a support system for each judge, I'm sure they don't expect them to just make copies and get the judge's coffee.
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Summary of WT Appeal Brief in Conti Case
by Chaserious in[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:officedocumentsettings> <o:allowpng /> </o:officedocumentsettings> </xml><!
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if they were able to win on this ground, they could get out completely (although it could still be appealed to the ca supreme court).
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Chaserious
Mind blown wrote:
Are you saying your recommendation could actually influence/sway a judge on how a case should turn out? And if so, wouldn't that in itself jepordize an appeals outcome, only because you're still a student of the law and not officially an atty? Is this common place?
All appeals judges, and many trial judges, have law clerks, who are usually less than a year out of law school (and often not yet admitted to the bar), or sometimes 2-3 years out, who in most chambers write bench memoranda with a recommendation on how the judge should rule. Of course, ultimately the decision belongs to the judge. Further, once the decision is reached, most judges have a clerk draft the written opinion and then edit it after the clerk drafts it. There are some judges who write their own opinions, but it's a minority.
As far as whether law students working in chambers can do the same thing, it varies by judge. In talking to other students who worked in judges' chambers, some would write memos for the clerks instead of directly to the judge. But there's nothing wrong with it per se. The judge can still go against the recommendation or read the briefs and research cases on his or her own. My judge didn't always end up voting the way my memo came out. I can think of one instance where I think my research was influential, in that I think the judge was originally inclined to go the other way.
Another interesting practice in this vein is the cert pool, which is a practice used by the US Supreme Court where each petition to have a case heard by the Supreme Court is read by one law clerk, who then writes a summary memo that the Justices read. Some have criticized the practice of a clerk who is a very recent law school graduate being the only one to read the full petition and exercising a lot of influence on whether the case gets heard by the Supreme Court or not.
Edit: I don't know why the whole post is italics. It won't let me change it. Only the first paragraph is the quote from a prior post.
[Edited by jgnat in HTML]