Drewcoul, I think you're right. Franz was the theologian and Knorr the organiser. The Watchtowers placed a great deal of emphasis on how the numerical growth of the religion, as well as the expansion of real etate, were proof that Jehovah was blessing the org. Rutherford, by contrast, seemed to care much less about how many were in the org: he was right and that was that. Maybe Knorr needed the numbers to prove him right.
MrMonroe
JoinedPosts by MrMonroe
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What is Knorr's legacy?
by drewcoul ini was wondering, i am aware of most of the presidents of the wts being a born in.
i am familiar with how it started with ct russell and the tumultuous takeover by jfr.
i grew up in the franz era and left about 2001 (although not mentally out until finding this forum a year and a half ago).
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WT february 2012
by Lady Viola ini just downloaded the studie wt and i really thought 'did i download the right wt or is this the simplied wt?
' i felt i was reading 'my book of bible stories'!!
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MrMonroe
It had an article in there about obeying the Governing Body. So it must have been The Watchtower.
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When You See A Witness What's Your First Reaction?
by minimus ini saw a few mindlessly working a neighborhood as i was driving the other day.
they looked so unhappy, just walking in baby steps, looking like zombies..
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MrMonroe
Mixed feelings: revulsion and pity. While driving home one Tuesday night a couple of weeks ago we saw a family of them leaving their home in their suits, obviously heading off to the meeting. I just look at them and think, "What a waste of their time." And they just don't realise it.
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TRY AGAIN - QUESTION: HOW HAVE FRANZ'S BOOKS HELPED YOU?
by binadub inapologies all.
my questions did not appear in the body of the first post and i didn't know the reason.
thanks leavingwt for informing me that another drawback of the new internet explorer is that it is not compatible with jwd.
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MrMonroe
1) How have Franz's books influenced (or not) you? Also Carl Olof Jonsson's and Jim Penton's?
Franz's books influenced me greatly. My wife and I stopped going to meetings after reading COC. Franz's second book, as well as Penton's and others, confirmed that my decision was the right one.
2) Do you understand Jonsson's chronology arguments and their effect on the parousia doctrine?
Vaguely, but I'm not interested in exploring the subject deeply. I know enough of the WTS lies to know that proving them wrong on 607 is immaterial.
3) Would you like an alternative religion to the Watchtower organization? If so, what do you think it should offer?
No. I still believe in God but want no religion. That one was more than enough.
4) Are you familiar with Channel C.
Never heard of it.
5) What do you think is the most influencial medium for JWs leaving the religion? Forums like this? Books? Other exJWs?
Probably the internet.
6) Do you know who the current WT leaders are?
I read their names occasionally on JWN, but I don't care enough to memorise them.
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Not just elders in Victoria who need wwc
by Mattieu inin reference to the comments that it should not just be the elders getting the working with children check in victoria, i just caught up with my mate who is still an elder and his 2 buddies (who were also elders), one who turned out to be the p/o (sorry, still stuck with the old lingo).
3 elders and a so called apostate, and yes we were all drinking beers, ok, i wasnt, that nz sav blnc was too good to pass up.... the direction from bethel is that all elders/ m/s's and pioneers in victoria have to get the wwc, so its not just for elders.. the deadline for all elders, ms's and pioneers to get this check passed a few weeks ago.
in my mates congo, there was still a few m/'s and pioneers who had not yet submitted their application yet as well as 1 elder.
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MrMonroe
In the interests of transparency, it's time the WTS put all this correspondence on their website. Unless they have secrets, that is. Honest to God, they are fixated with the idea that they have enemies out to get them and need to tell lies and hide stuff even from their "brothers". If God is on their side, surely they can rise above that?
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Not just elders in Victoria who need wwc
by Mattieu inin reference to the comments that it should not just be the elders getting the working with children check in victoria, i just caught up with my mate who is still an elder and his 2 buddies (who were also elders), one who turned out to be the p/o (sorry, still stuck with the old lingo).
3 elders and a so called apostate, and yes we were all drinking beers, ok, i wasnt, that nz sav blnc was too good to pass up.... the direction from bethel is that all elders/ m/s's and pioneers in victoria have to get the wwc, so its not just for elders.. the deadline for all elders, ms's and pioneers to get this check passed a few weeks ago.
in my mates congo, there was still a few m/'s and pioneers who had not yet submitted their application yet as well as 1 elder.
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MrMonroe
Oh, and Mattieu, you have a PM.
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Not just elders in Victoria who need wwc
by Mattieu inin reference to the comments that it should not just be the elders getting the working with children check in victoria, i just caught up with my mate who is still an elder and his 2 buddies (who were also elders), one who turned out to be the p/o (sorry, still stuck with the old lingo).
3 elders and a so called apostate, and yes we were all drinking beers, ok, i wasnt, that nz sav blnc was too good to pass up.... the direction from bethel is that all elders/ m/s's and pioneers in victoria have to get the wwc, so its not just for elders.. the deadline for all elders, ms's and pioneers to get this check passed a few weeks ago.
in my mates congo, there was still a few m/'s and pioneers who had not yet submitted their application yet as well as 1 elder.
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MrMonroe
What we are all hanging out for is a copy of that directive!
or is it one of these word of mouth by the CO things?
We've been told several times it was a letter read out at the meetings. As usual, very cloak-and-dagger, with the knowledge of the rationale restricted to tiny bunch of Bethel eite who may at some stage hint that they know but just can't talk about it. Which is fairly odd for a religion that has no clergy and in which all are equal ...
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It is SO depressing when you just can't get through to someone
by ilikecheese ini have been hitting a brick wall trying to pry my boyfriend away from this stuff.
it just makes me cry that it's so obvious to me how wrong it is, and he's not even batting an eyelash.
he knows about all of the scandals, all of the false prophecies, the coverup of sexual predators, that elders tell abuse victims to stay with their spouses, that they dishonestly use sources, and he just doesn't care.
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MrMonroe
Books?
Jim Penton's Apocalypse Delayed
Heather & Gary Botting's The Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses
Tony Wills' A People For His Name
or, if he's really interested in looking at where all the dates are numbers in the complex JW set of beliefs come from, Robert Crompton's Counting the Days to Armageddon.
But the fact is, no book is going to change his mind if he want to stay. He'll ignore the bad, because he's convinced it's God's organisation and he'll die without it.
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What's your view on who REALLY are the "mentally diseased" apostates?
by Fernando inreligion allows us to know the "god of religion".. .
the unabridged gospel/bissar/injeel allows us to know the "god of abraham".. .
know = be intimate with (spiritual union or intercourse).
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MrMonroe
The term comes from what is evidently a sloppy translation. No other Bible version has such a wording. When it has suited them, they have trotted the phrase out in the Watchtower, supposedly as a quote from the BIble but clearly meant as a term of denigration for anyone who dares to disagree with them.
The context of the scripture is a condemnation of Christians who just want to argue doctrinal issues to the point of absurdity, missing the rel message. The WT applies it to anyone who just disputes their often tortured view of scripture. Often it's they who wear people out examining, and distorting words to suit their own ends: what is a generation? what does it mean to abstain from blood? Does "porneia" include oral contact? what does it mean to stand before the throne?
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The Magazine "The Plain Truth." Remember It?
by AvocadoJake indo you remember the magazine and the author of this magazine, any old timers know who the backers were?
i was five years old, when the old man was the editor or author of this religious magazine.
did you ever talk to any of the followers of this movement?
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MrMonroe
Growing up in New Zealand, my brother and I used to listen to "The World Tomorrow", broadcast as 30-minute shows on one of the Auckland radio stations at night in the mid to late 1970s. It was either Herbert W. Armstrong or his son Garner Ted Armstrong, who did the talks, pointing to the fulfilment of Bible prophecy. They offered copies of The Plain Truth to anyone who wrote and asked for it, so we did, and we used to then send away for glossy books that dealt with subjects such as famine and pollution, showing how these things were a sign that the end was nigh.
They then set off for a series of tours of New Zealand, hiring halls to give talks. We were very convinced, though we didn't take it any further .... it's quite likely it laid the groundwork for my acceptance of the JW's message when they turned up on my door some years later. I remember being told years ago that Herbert had left the JWs decades earlier and formed his own religion with variants of the JW message, and it's true there were similarities, though it seems the WCG seemed to have its own leadership dramas at some point.