Posts by MrMonroe

9

Why a religion academic abandoned a plan for intensive study of JW doctrines

by MrMonroe in

michael gilmour, professor of engish and biblical literature at providence university college, manitoba, proposed a society of biblical literature workshop examining the watchtower society's use of scripture.

he thought they were poorly represented in deep academic analysis, particularly considering they have their own bible and are "persistent" (other people say "relentless") in their proselytizing.. in the end, he decided against it.

much of the reason is the suspicion and contempt held by jws towards "worldly" bible scholars, who, of course, may form different conclusions to those of the governing body.. james a. beverley, in his excellent book, "crtisis of allegiance," made the point that despite their claims to be bible scholars par excellence, the wts's writings or "research" are never (repeat never) cited by any other academics; none are ever persuaded by the claim that only the wts can understand the "deep things of god.".

MrMonroe

The Revelation Grand Climax review is certainly interesting, and Cadellin highlights a fascinating point in it.

The Revelation book wrote:

Revolting sexual corruption is portrayed to this day in the war-damaged Buddhist sculptures at Angkor Wat in Kampuchea and in the temples at Khajuraho, India, which show the Hindu god Vishnu surrounded by disgusting erotic scenes (RGCH 262).

The reviewer observed:

It is interesting to note that representations of sexuality are described as revolting and disgusting but depictions of violence are not, if dozens of graphic pictures in RGCH are any indication.

That is so funny. Here are a couple of the images.

Khaju1

I mean, really. Just another Saturday night in Bethel, surely?

45

Can You Defend Yourself before a J. Committee?

by D wiltshire in

jw
friends

to those who have been before a judicial committee for apostacy.. the elders will ask you questions not for the purpose of finding out the truth, but to make sure they can df you.. at my appeal hearing serveral months ago i was questioned by the appeal committees to their satifaction, they even thanked me for my honesty, as it helped them get what they were looking for to make the original dfing stand.. after they were finished with their questions i ask if i could now defend myself and prove that i was telling the truth and not a biblical apostate.. the chairman informed me that i would not be allowed to defend myself.. i looked at all 8 brothers(2 committees 5 & 3) in total amazement at his refusal to allow me to defend myself.

to them(8) it seem perfectly alright not to allow me to defend myself.. wow.. the chairman said they really were not a judicial court and did not need to be that concerned about doing things in harmony with what is concidered to be fair and right by worldly courts or the bible.

in fact the chairman spent about 10 minutes trying to explain why they didn't have have to be fair in the legalistic way of courts.. .

MrMonroe

Loved it. Loved the experience of d wiltshire who asked to be told what he was charged with and was asked in turn what HE thought it was. Amazing. The Spanish Inquisition of the middle ages couldn't have done it any better.

Their paranoia about legal representation and recording of the meeting is just insane. Watchtowers often note how the Old Testament juudicial process was to have cases heard "at the gate" and open to all. The WTS judicial process couldn't be more secretive and therefore more prone to abuse.

59

I Called the Headquarters About the "Slaughter of Apostates" Quote

by DT in

jw
friends

in case you haven't heard, the november 15, 2011 watchtower, page 5 made this comment.

"today, no servant of jehovah uses physical force against opponents of pureworship.

"vengeance is mine," god says.

MrMonroe

Reading that Watchtower article again and seeing the linkage between Jehu's bloodthirstiness, the warnings about the dangers of apostates and DFd individuals, it crosses my mind that the quote from an otherwise unconnected book that happens to refer to the slaughter of apostates may be a deliberate act to provoke disaffected ex-JWs on forums such as this.

Could it be the GB is acting as a troll to fire up ex-JWs wth articles such as that, and the "mentally diseased" claim. Could they be seeding their articles with such inflammatory language, hoping to hit a nerve, then sitting back and waiting for the reaction on JWN?

Just wondering ....

59

I Called the Headquarters About the "Slaughter of Apostates" Quote

by DT in

jw
friends

in case you haven't heard, the november 15, 2011 watchtower, page 5 made this comment.

"today, no servant of jehovah uses physical force against opponents of pureworship.

"vengeance is mine," god says.

MrMonroe

Jehu, as even that WT article explains, was a hypocritical religious zealot who took it upon himself to kill those who worshipped Baal and then turned out to be no better than any of his victims. According to 2 Kings 10:29, he took up golden calf worship.

Still, in the eyes of the WTS, anyone who was prepared to swing his sword and slaughter those who followed a different course of worship is a decent bloke. Especially when he did it in God's name. (Did he yell out Allah Akbah! as he beheaded them?) In fact, as the opening paragraph of the WT article claims,

"Jehu was a champion of pure worship. In carrying out this role he was energetic, prompt, relentless, zealous and courageous. Jehu manifested qualities that we would do well to imitate."

Really, he sounds a bit like the leaders of the Crusades of the Middle Ages who were dispatched by the Pope to slaughter the enemies of God. Does the Watchtower think they were "champions of pure worship", manifesting "qualities that we would do well to imitate"? What about Ron and Dan Lafferty, the fundamentalist Mormons who Jon Krakauer wrote about in "Under the Banner of Heaven"? They did a pretty good job too, slaughtering Brenda Lafferty and her 15-month-old baby because she wasn't playing the polygamy game as they believed God required. They were relentless, energetic and zealous as well, but shucks, it turned out they were wrong too, just like Jehu. Ah well.

Personally I think it's a bit worrying that the Watchtower puts a deeply flawed, bloodthirsty, hypocritical and self-righteous biblical figure like Jehu up on a pedestal and says to Witnesses, "We wish you could be like him." For a religion that claims to be the epitome of kindness and Christian love, it's a pretty dodgy position to take, holding up as a role model someone who relished the idea of killing anyone who followed a different religion and then mixing it up with the usual polemic about the dreadful APOSTATES and the necessity to "avoid the company of DISFELLOWSHIPPED individuals."

Charles Manson heard messages in the "Helter Skelter" song that led him to slaughter Sharon Tate. You kind of hope there are no mentally imbalanced individuals lurking in congregations somewhere who take the Watchtower's commendation of Jehu a little too literally.

118

What does your user name mean????

by karter in

jw
friends

anything ???.

.

karter ...i race go-karts.

MrMonroe

I used to like watching a UK police series, "The Bill" ... back in the old days when it was good, before they turned it into a soapie. One of the characters was a guy called Inspector Andrew Monroe. The young coppers used to call him Mr Monroe. When I had to come up with a user name, for some reason that popped into my head.

Mr Monroe image

7

The only info I could find regarding xenophon and the 2011 conference..

by The Quiet One in

someone i'm in contact with who works with a religion news website is interested in the conference, since i emailed them with a link to the australian newspaper article posted here.

they are wondering what conference this is referring to.. i can't open pdf's on my phone, so i need your help!

after an intensive internet search, these were the only documents i could find.. can anyone tell me what they say etc.

MrMonroe

Sorry, you're on the wrong track. That's a national tax summit. The conference in November is organised by CIFS.

43

Australia Newspaper alerts: JWs likens "defectors to 'contagious deadly disease'

by Gayle in

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/jehovas-witnesses-defectors-cop-a-blast/story-fn7x8me2-1226155212128.

MrMonroe

No, QuietOne, that's a national tax summit. The conference is organised by CIFS. Nothing on their website yet, but should be soon.

9

Why a religion academic abandoned a plan for intensive study of JW doctrines

by MrMonroe in

michael gilmour, professor of engish and biblical literature at providence university college, manitoba, proposed a society of biblical literature workshop examining the watchtower society's use of scripture.

he thought they were poorly represented in deep academic analysis, particularly considering they have their own bible and are "persistent" (other people say "relentless") in their proselytizing.. in the end, he decided against it.

much of the reason is the suspicion and contempt held by jws towards "worldly" bible scholars, who, of course, may form different conclusions to those of the governing body.. james a. beverley, in his excellent book, "crtisis of allegiance," made the point that despite their claims to be bible scholars par excellence, the wts's writings or "research" are never (repeat never) cited by any other academics; none are ever persuaded by the claim that only the wts can understand the "deep things of god.".

MrMonroe

Michael Gilmour, professor of Engish and biblical literature at Providence University College, Manitoba, proposed a Society of Biblical Literature workshop examining the Watchtower Society's use of scripture. He thought they were poorly represented in deep academic analysis, particularly considering they have their own Bible and are "persistent" (other people say "relentless") in their proselytizing.

In the end, he decided against it. Much of the reason is the suspicion and contempt held by JWs towards "worldly" Bible scholars, who, of course, may form different conclusions to those of the Governing Body.

James A. Beverley, in his excellent book, "Crtisis of Allegiance," made the point that despite their claims to be Bible scholars par excellence, the WTS's writings or "research" are never (repeat never) cited by any other academics; none are ever persuaded by the claim that only the WTS can understand the "deep things of God."

Here's Gilmour's comment here. The final paragraph is the clincher.

18

What is the best book about JWs (written by non JWs, of course), in your opinion?

by Chemical Emotions in

i've never read any, so i'd like to know everyone's opinion..

MrMonroe

"Counting the Days To Armageddon" by Robert Crompton is an excellent piece of scholarship that trawls over HOW they came to the dates and chronoogical systems they did .... and why they were later changed. It taught me (like most of these books did!) much more abut the religion and its teachings thn any WTS publication. Crompton's book is a real eye-opener. It's very thorough and dissects the origin of the teachiungs all JWs just take for granted.

Also check out "Crisis of Allegiance" by James A. Beverley. He is a non-JW and the subject of the book is the ructions that took place in Canada surrounding the expulsion from the religion of James Penton. He highlights what a nasty, conniving bunch of a-holes the WTS leadership and middle management is and the lengths they went to in order to achieve their goal of getting rid of someone who dared to question their teachings.

For anyone interested in the early organisational and doctrinal development, "A People For His Name" by Tony Wills is also excellent. It again is very well researched and very thorough.

"The Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses" by Heather & Gary Botting is a fun read that hammers the point of the similarities between the WT organisation and Big Brother in its information control and dictatorial methods.

Beckford's book is very good though a little dry in parts, Holden's is excellent as well -- both of them analyse the thinking and behavior of Witensses as a group and why they act that way, and they provide many lightbulb moments as you realise they're describing your own behavior of the past.

Those books should all be required reading for JWs so they can gain a better view of the life they have chosen to lead. Unfortunately because many of them contain information that's critical of the religion, JWs will never read them, because they've been trained not to read critical material. I'd love to ask a JW how many people they meet at the doors where people won't change their religion because they never fully analayse it. (JWs would always say, "Yeah, people are born into their religion and never examine it. They're so close-minded.") And then ask them if they've ever read books by outside sources that examine their religion. Ask them if they're allowed to read such a book. And what they have to fear. And what it says about their religious leaders who forbid them from reading books that criticise their religion.

63

Did you have any Elders CO's/DO's that were "Hung up" on certain things????

by karter in

jw
friends

we had an elder that was hung up on mens haircuts he had a real thing about how short mens hair should be and even told one bro off for parting his hair down the middle.. even told one bro to shave off his sideburns.. a c.o who was paronoid about sound always telling the bro in charge off.. .

a d.o who orded the attendants to remove crying babys from assemblys on more than a few occations...hans hubler for those that know him..

MrMonroe

Reading through these comments, it makes you realise how many small-minded, narrow-minded nobodies are elevated to position of power and authority within this organisation and given the freedom to boom out their inane thoughts over PA systems to simpering, sycophantic audiences.

I've been in congregations where window cleaners with huge inferiority complexes became elders and suddenly began lording it over people, relishing the opportunity for the first time in their life to be able to tell people what to do. A congregation secretary used to make me bring the monthly accounts to him when I was accounts servant and sit there silently while he added it all up himself on his calculator before dismissing me.

When another dickhead elder out on the territory concluded we'd finished a block on the map, he wouldn't tell us which block we were moving to next so we could make our own way there and be less conspicuous. He just said, "Follow me!" and began striding off. I said to him, 'Keith, can you just tell me where it is?" and he glared at me and said, "Follow me!" He loved the idea of 15 people following him down the street.