Posts by JCanon

32

Biblical evidence against 1914

by Kosonen in

in god s holy word the bible you can find evidence that god s kingdom was not established in 1914. and according to the prophecies it will be estblished later in the future.

and we can not calculate the time point.

in acts 1:7 the apostles asked " lord, are you restoring the kingdom to israel at this time?

JCanon

In God´s holy word the bible you can find evidence that God´s Kingdom was not established in 1914. And according to the prophecies it will be estblished later in the future. And we can not calculate the time point. In Acts 1:7 the apostles asked " Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?" And in the next verse he said to them: It does not belong to you to know times or appointed times which the Father has placed under his own authority. So, Jesus did not give any hope that we could calculate when God´s Kingdom will be established.

Note: When the kingdom is set up, Satan is kicked down to the earth. There is an interval between when the kingdom is set up in heaven and when it is set up in the earth.

YOU have to determine whether Acts is a reference to when the kingdom is set up in heaven and when it is set up in the earth.

Basically, the date of the kingdom in heaven, when Satan is kicked out is what the chronology prophecies are for and is the dated second coming. But that is not when Christ actually begins his rule in the earth. So basically ARMAGEDDON is not dated, that is what is within God's jurisdiction. But the year of the second coming is linked to lots of chronology.

So Acts, which is about when the kingdom comes to the earth is unknown, but the date of the second coming IS.

JC

5

The WT, the UN and why it was Idolatry and Harlotry

by Philippus79 in

church harlotry .

all churches are subject to the law of the land but no church should make itself subject to the rules of another organisation.

such an agreement is a corporate joining which gives the church a second head.

JCanon

Oops, this is rather suspicious all of a sudden:

However the bottom line is that the Watchtower was joined to the throne of Satan. His throne was therefore placed in the temple of the Watchtower for 10 years from January 1992 until October 2001. Any JW knowing this, who thinks that he should remain in that church is a rank idolater of that church and a worshipper of Satan.

Because:

REV. 11:
7 And when they have finished their witnessing, the wild beast that ascends out of the abyss will make war with them and conquer them and kill them. 8 And their corpses will be on the broad way of the great city which is in a spiritual sense called Sod´om and Egypt, where their Lord was also impaled. 9 And those of the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations will look at their corpses for three and a half days, and they do not let their corpses be laid in a tomb. 10 And those dwelling on the earth rejoice over them and enjoy themselves, and they will send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those dwelling on the earth.
11 And after the three and a half days spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet, and great fear fell upon those beholding them. 12 And they heard a loud voice out of heaven say to them: “Come on up here.” And they went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies beheld them. 13 And in that hour a great earthquake occurred, and a tenth of the city fell; and seven thousand persons were killed by the earthquake, and the rest became frightened and gave glory to the God of heaven.

The messiah does not return to the house of the father until the last minute, within a year of becoming anointed. They must have been expecting him to arrive sometime in 1992. It's hard to imagine the UN being concerned about the appearance of the would be messiah that year, but maybe the WTS joined to help facilitate the UN opposition to the "two witnesses" whom they in some way kill.

Their going up to heaven after 3-1/2 days suggests the ouster of Satan at this time, and their triumph is the actual transmigration of the heavenly messiah into human form. Satan tries to devour the child when it is born, some type of opposition was thus in progress. The death of the two witnesses for 3-1/2 days could be a reference to that. So much is secretive.

Anyway, maybe this is a Biblical reference for a specific reason why in 1992 the WTS joined the UN or why the UN inducted the WTS. There is room for a couple of interpretations, but maybe indeed, the WTS joining the UN was a severe, noticed breech and they were acting in concert with or benhalf of the UN to oppose the "two witnesses." I'll have to think on this further.

The highest concentration of JIOR at the time was in Korea. So maybe it was an international thing going on. ?

JC

5

The WT, the UN and why it was Idolatry and Harlotry

by Philippus79 in

church harlotry .

all churches are subject to the law of the land but no church should make itself subject to the rules of another organisation.

such an agreement is a corporate joining which gives the church a second head.

JCanon

...they need to take off their rosey colored glasses in their view of the WTS. Over 12 million dollars and counting and more cases coming forward tells me their policy is weak.

They are not going to. They just put out another DVD about the organization and how wonderful it is and how great they are doing and how they are Jehovah's organization. It is a big production with all the swelling music in the background and everything. They are selling themselves as the god-mediator even more, and isolating the members more strategically. I think it's for the public to get to know who Jehovah's witnesses are. It talks about their beliefs, etc. It was too sickly for me to watch in detail but I suppose I should. No telling what cryptic Illuminati messages are in it.

JC

5

The WT, the UN and why it was Idolatry and Harlotry

by Philippus79 in

church harlotry .

all churches are subject to the law of the land but no church should make itself subject to the rules of another organisation.

such an agreement is a corporate joining which gives the church a second head.

JCanon

thanks for this article! Were you aware that there is an apologetic group on this very topic and the issue of defending 607 BCE?

It's called "Jehovahsjudgement.co.uk" It's tastefully done and definitely a rebuttal to "apostates." They make all kinds of claims about the apostates not having any of the "answers" but, typical WTS cowardice, there is no way to directly contact them for questions or rebuttal that I could see. Probably to claim that if they are not open for interaction they can't be accused off associating with apostates:

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

This is proof the apostates and the main issues of the UN membership and 607 BCE are having an effect.

JC

3

Boy Third Witness does not give in with the 607 debate!!!

by whereami in

this guy is totally fanatical about this.

i've never seen a person so adament about being correct, when everything is clearly showing him to be incorrect.. .

http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-witness/tpa7oq7g4hgvp9gn5

JCanon

Interesting.

The chronology will not change until some noted professor gets convinced that there was a conspiracy by the Persians to fake the death of Xerxes and make him Artaxerxes. Then at least an alternative scholarship on the dating that aligns with Martin Anstey will ensue. It's not that some, like Martin Anstey, haven't figured out that 455 BCE has to be the Biblical date for the first of Cyrus. It is just consistently suppressed by the anti-Biblical academic world.

The VAT4956 proves what the original chronology was, so there is no worry about aligning 529 BCE with 1992. Changing the timeline I think is easy for the NB Period but it causes problems for the Classical Greek Historians who have to expose Plato, Aristotle and Xenophon as paid Persian co-conspirators to revise the chronology. I don't think the classical historians actually want to have everybody knowing that Aristotle was the boy-lover of Socrates originally, even though now gay issues are more openly accepted these days.

Thanks for the list.

JC

4

Joseph Campbell On Chronology

by Rapunzel in

some of you undoubtedly have heard of joseph campbell, author of such books as the masks of god and the hero with a thousand faces, campbell was a world-famous scholar of mythology and comparative religions.

i am currently reading his book, myths to live by, which i find fascinating.. given the interest in the topic of chronology recently evidenced here, i thought that i might post some of campbell's findings on chronology.

i will quote campbell, who states on page 74 of myths to live by, in achapter entitled the separation of east and west, - "according to many of the mythologies still flourishing in the orient, a world flood occurs inevitably at the termination of every aeon.

JCanon

Interesting. I think numbers can be common but sometimes they are too consistent to be ignored.

This recent attention to the Mayan Calendar, for instance, has some numbering at 144,000! I found that interesting. The calendar runs out precisely on December 23, 2012 (solstice?). So with others pointing to 2011 (including me) it becomes interesting whether Jehovah has hidden some things in some of these other cultures relating to the end of the age, our current "system of things."

JC

21

could jw's prove their beliefs without watchtower literature?

by atpeace in

i was pondering this question today.

i thought it might be an interesting tactic to use with my family.

if i simply asked that they prove all beliefs by the bible alone.. growing up - every time discipline or counsel was given - it was based on getting out the bound volumes.

JCanon

As someone stated, very few can. But some can. Many elders and pioneers. That is, they understand the topics and can support the doctrinal position based upon the scriptures used in the original discussion. But that's rare.

What is interesting, though, is that even for those who might be able to use scriptures entirely to express a WTS doctrine, if they are faced with a Biblical reference that contradicts something in the Watchtower, I've found most have a complete inability to recognize the error by the Society. They just irrationally refuse to believe what might be logically concluded from the Bible.

Case in point Passover. For all the years it has been celebrated and the account of Exodus read, JWs do not realize that if the Jews left the same night they ate passover and that was the day they made into a special sabbath day, then Jesus must have been arrested on a sabbath day. Fact is, the passover is eaten on the 1st day of unfermented cakes, which is a sabbath day. Passover is eaten within 24 hours of when they left Egypt and that means passover is eaten on a sabbath day. Now that is not hard to understand, but it's next to impossible to convince a witness that's the case because (1) they didn't read it in the Watchtower, and (2) that's not what the WTS teaches and they don't trust their own minds.

Finally, it doesn't matter if you actually prove something is wrong in the Bible because their whole life is wrapped up in having found the "true religion" and they are afraid to leave or challenge whom they perceive is God's appointed messenger.

Some XJWs who challenge WTS doctrines know WTS doctrines in and out and can explain them scripturally without use of the WTS publications as well. But they are few and far between as well.

The other problem is that sometimes witnesses will think perfectly clearly on a topic and offer a solution to a question but without knowing they are contradicting the WTS position!! So that's another interesting pitfall. Thus when you challenge a witness, invariably it doesn't work unless that person is an elder or pioneer or has been in the truth for a long time because they don't really know what is taught.

This is what I discovered while I was in Hawaii and the local brothers didn't know I was an X-witness or disfellowshipped. Just as a game I pretended to ask an honest Bible question to the witnesses when they came to the door. I pretended I wanted to know how is it that Jesus' trial was at noon but it gets dark at noon at the same time. Problem is, the brother hadn't noticed the discrepancy before, but it didn't take him long to figure out the trial must have been on a different day than when it became dark, obviously, the day before! Well, he was right. He offered that explanation. But had no idea that is NOT what the WTS was teaching! He was clueless the WTS requires Jesus to die on Nisan 14th the same day as he is arrested!

So that's the other catch-22. Lots of them don't know what the WTS teaches on a lot of issues. They might easily be persuaded to follow the Bible on some topic if they don't cross-check the WTS position. But once they do, they have to contradict their own instincts. So they are capable of reasoning and thinking on their own, but there is such an obligation to see it exactly as the WTS does that they second guess themselves. So sometimes, you have to actually show the witnesses themselves what their own organization teaches, because they have no idea. Thus target witnesses are the elders and pioneers, those engaged in TEACHING others, since they have to understand these things well. But cornering an elder is difficult since they can sniff out an apostate ten blocks away.

JC

46

Has anyone noticed the "Message of Doom" in the 7/15/08 WT?

by logic&reason in

in paragraph 16 of the first study artice.

.

they are being very vague, but it is obvious that they are trying to stir up speculation/excitement.. the entire magazine appears to be about the house to house ministry.

JCanon

The WTS is dreaming! They have been kicked out of Jehovah's favor as of November 10, 1992 and are slated to be destroyed in the lake of fire. If this occurs around the time the "Illuminati" Babylon the Great is destroyed, then it is not likely any of their preaching will be of significance.

But this sounds like they KNOW they are kicked out and are just trying to see if they will be of token use at the last minute. The "message" that will be their last is that they were unfaithful and Jehovah doesn't like false prophets!

Lars

86

E-mail to JW Ex-Wife: What You Can Learn Researching the WTS in 3 Hours!

by Seeker4 in

i posted a thread earlier this week about a conversation i had with my jw ex-wife.

the next day i sent her this e-mail.

one should never be afraid of ideas.

JCanon

Another example. I have a friend who wrote the WTS several very respectful letters over a period of years with all the scientific evidence proving there could not have been a worldwide flood 4000 years ago.

Nobody has yet to fully refute the global flood because they challenge an inaccurate reference to the flood and seeing that that contradicts science decide it didn't happen.

For instance, some will note that a suspended water canopy would cause such high pressure and temperatures on the surface, life couldn't exist. But the Bible indicates that the water canopy was "firm" and thus presumably solid ICE. That makes a difference. With an ice canopy the pressure on the surface could be adjusted to whatever it needed to be. So not understanding specifically the nature of the water canopy, any objections to it based upon perhaps inaccurate concepts is just a straw man's argtument.

Another case in point is the up-in-arms obvious question as to where all that water went after the flood. It is clear the earth could not accommodate those waters in basins and seas. Yet the Bibe says to assist in removing the waters "winds" were used. "Winds"? What would winds do? It's just a lot of water right, so winds would simply blow the water from one place to the other right? Well, yeah. But a water spout falls under "winds" does it not? Isn't a tornado consisting of winds? Of course. So per the Bible, some of these "winds" could have been used as water funnels to lift the water into outer space. And we do know there is water in outer space because comets that come by close to the earth are known to be encased in ice.

So you see, two really emotional, rather slam-dunk arguments are off the table. They think they have won an anti-Biblical argument but they haven't addressed the accurate Biblical parameters of the argument. They pat themselves on the back and claim science is 100% behind this and that has been proven and it falls apart when you really get to some of the critical issues and find out how many straw men's arguments there are.

On the other hand, while researching recently about these ice cores and how they calculate age and everything at Antartica, just in passing they noted at the very bottom, under all those ice layers they found tropical vegatation! That means Antartica was once tropical. That is directly consistent with the ice canopy (green house) context of the Bible. That there was no rain at the time and apparently no seasons and thus no ice or snow at the polar regions. Once the canopy was gone then, of course, the poles froze over. Apparently Siberia was a tropical area at one time as well, with lots of mammoths frozen to death suddenly, some with undecayed food in their mouths.

Now I know Creationists vs evolutionists go back and forth on this, but that's point. There is no slam-dunk scientific proof in place that the Bible's story about a global flood isn't true. I can't get past Antartica being once a tropical place. That's scientific fact as well.

So, indeed, lots of questions remain to be answered but, please. This claim science has proven beyond any doubt and so conclusively on the flood issue is a case of "the story of my death is extremely exaggerated."

Same jive with this "mountain of evidence" for 587 BCE as the true date for the fall of Jerusalem and you can find double-dating in the VAT4956 to another timeline. Meaning? Meaning the cryptic date supersedes the current timeline and you have DIRECT PROOF not only of the reivsion but of the true dating. But is anybody jumping on that? Apparently not. The dishonesty or scholarly expertise is laking in examining the direct evidence and understanding it, as is the Biblical scholarship that mischaracterizes or inadequately characterizes the flood.

So these discussions, frankly, leaves a lot to be desired for highly intellectual and "scholarly" (meaning I go to the university and do my own research and check things out) persons like myself. So except for a few people, the masses are just fooled by one well presented counterintelligence propaganda view versus the other. The fact that you have Creationists and Evolutionists still arguing details tells you right there there is no final, absolutely convincing data to dismiss completely belief in the Bible as a true book. So you have two groups on either side of the dividing line thinking to themselves the others are blundering idiots.

But so be it, as it would also be quite clear that God never intended to show all the secrets to anyone but a few in the first place. The darkness some insist upon remaining in, is its own reward.

I am SO GLAD I'm among those who had a personal audience with God himself so I don't have to worry about whether there is a God or not or whether the Bible is true. That is truly a wonderful feeling. I, on the other hand, have tried to strongarm people into looking at more facts, more science, more archaeology that does support the Bible and it's like pulling teeth. It's clear, as some have said, "nobody is listening" but I think it's more than that. I think and have said before, that, your tapestry can be beautiful and finished and clearly you have space on a blank wall, but without those hooks in the wall you can't hang anything. You can provide all the dots but that doesn't mean everyone is able to connect them, no matter how much you try to explain it to them. So, whatever. Five out of ten virgins won't get it, so just be glad you're one of the five that do. That's all one can do.

JC

86

E-mail to JW Ex-Wife: What You Can Learn Researching the WTS in 3 Hours!

by Seeker4 in

i posted a thread earlier this week about a conversation i had with my jw ex-wife.

the next day i sent her this e-mail.

one should never be afraid of ideas.

JCanon

The Society knows that there is no evidence for their date of 607 for the fall of Jerusalem, in fact ALL the evidence, and there is considerable, proves another date all together

ALL THE EVIDENCE? No. The VAT4956 has references to both 568 BCE and 511 BCE. That evidence alone means the Persians revised the history and that 511 BCE is the true, original date for the 37th of Nebuchadnezzar. It would be the more academically critical challenge to the Bible's chronology, not 568 BCE because the text itself essentially confirms 568 BCE is the latter, and thus revised chronology.

So the critical application here is to compare that dating with the preferred interpretation of the "70 weeks" prophecy, which shows Cyrus fulfilling that prophecy in 455 BCE. This is the conclustion of strict Biblicalists like Martin Anstey in his "Romance of Bible Chronology" who observed the Persian Period must be 82 years too long. When you date the 1st of Cyrus to 455 BCE, add 70 years to come up with the year of the last deportation in 525 BCE, which is year 23 of Nebuchadnezzar, then guess what? Year 37 falls in 511 BCE.

So now on one side, you have a group of Biblicalists who can use the VAT4956, Josephus and the Bible to support a different timeline. 511 BCE reflects both the RELATIVE and ABSOLUTE chronology for the 455 BCE dating. Now most at this point, indeed, find the idea of 82 extra years during the Persian Period is an overwhelming reality challenge. Understood. But not if you actually investigate. When you do, the Persian Period implodes on itself immediately. You immediately learn Xerxes was Artaxerxes and Darius died in his 6th year. The Bible alone requires that from Ezra 6:14,15. That removes 51 fake years right up front. You only need to fine 31 more fake years, which are easily found in the expanded 47-year rule of Artaxerxes II, who only ruled for 17 years. Ktesias who was his physician says he served him for 17 years. In the meantime, you have Plato being consulted on a math problem in 431 BCE when he wasn't born until 428 BCE.

So, yes, 607 BCE is now a confirmed false date, but 607 BCE is based on 539 BCE for the fall of Babylon, also part of the revised timeline. So is 587 BCE for the fall of Jerusalem.

The truth shall set you free.

So while it's good to point out false teachings, you have to yourself be interested in the truth. All that is being offered here is one false teaching for another and why should someone switch? I'm not saying that for my own agenda, but as a witness who has researched this and who knows there are other issues than simply going along with the popular timeline. Others have decided the Bible contradicts this timeline at other points. I don't think we can just ignore that. Not if we are interested in understanding Bible truth.

But to get to the truth, you MUST believe the Bible 100%. 587 BCE contradicts the Bible for the fall of Jerusalem. It contradicts Josephus who inserts 70 years between the last deportation and Cyrus. So there's a problem. A historical problem for the Babylonians. A problem few take the time to look into. But when you do, actually, as I have, then the problem resolves itself and all your answers line up to prove the Bible is true.

587 BCE is just as wrong for the fall of Jerusalem as 607 BCE, but not just as wrong if you don't correct 539 BCE, in which case 607 BCE is more Biblically accurate, once removed. That is, the 70 years begins with the last deportation in year 23, not year 18, but the Bible definitely inserts those 70 years just prior to the 1st of Cyrus. There is no way around that if you want to still believe the Bible.

But you know, clearly everyone is not a scholar in these areas. It's hard to convince someone of being lied to when they trust the source. The trusted source is the academic world. All those colleges and universities and books that don't give much of a hint of any kind of comprehensive revisionism from this period, all saying the same things and doing whatever Bible bashing that is needed to maintain that false timeline. How is the lay person going to find their way through all of that?

Fact is, only the scholarly will have to. The others will simply come into the kingdom based upon their own nobility and righteousness. They are approved without needing to know the absolute details of all of this. Thus only a few people really need to know the absolute corrected truth. I would be one of them, of course.

That's why, too many would be lost if we had to correct this for everyone. The "new wine" is too potent for the old wineskins, so the new wine and old wineskins are separate. So as nice as it is to challenge 607 BCE, if it is done with 587 BCE then that contradicts the Bible, so it doesn't really help. It's just the blind leading the blind, unfortunately.

Oh well!

JC