Posts by JCanon

73

The 70 years of devastation--as revealed by the Bible

by AddaGirl in

watchtower teachings say this period is from 607 bce to 537 bce.

most of the documentation relating to the seventy years indicates that period to be 609 bce to 539 bce, the rule of the babylonian empire.

i wrote to headquarters, because as a bible study student i knew i could ask questions about certain doctrines that those baptized cannot without consequence and some of the information i received from them was very helpful especially when it was used to verify the chronology of the kings of judah and israel through the bible.. the bible says there are actually (2) 70-year periods.. the first being one of servitude to the babylonians of both israel & judah from 609 bce to 539 bce.

JCanon

Hi Doug. (Sorry to hear about your wife's illness. I know this is a life experience you're going through and its different for everyone. I wish you strength and comfort to get through this. My parents are aged and ailing and it certainly reminds of how short life can be and renews our reason for hope in a better world).

It is not possible for the WTS -- or anyone else for that matter -- to prove which year the Jews returned to Jerusalem following the decree by Cyrus.

It is not possible to show that this is the event that marked the end of the "70 years of servitude" by the nations listed by Jeremiah.

Doug, it is porbably not "possible" to prove anything in the ancient past. But we can confirm and examine the various references that survive that are pertinent to the issue. In this case:

1. Ant. 11.1.1 by Josephus confirms that HIS interpretation of Jeremiah's prophecy was fulfilled when the "people went off their land" meaning at the time of the last deportation, thus the 70 years are from year 23 of Nebuchadnezzar to the 1st of Cyrus. That is the "subjective" chronology.

2. The VAT4956 contain two date references for year 37 of Nebuchadnezzar: one in 568 BCE and one in 511 BCE. The double dating though, explains the reason for the "diary" in the first place, which was just to hide reference to the original chronology. So the most academically correct chronology via the VAT4956 for the true dating for the NB Period dates year 37 of Nebuchadnezzar to 511 BCE. It is only this date that a Bible scholar would be thus interested in comparing with the Biblical timeline. This dating would date year 23 to 525 BCE and thus the 1st of Cyrus is corrected by the VAT4956 to fall in 455 BCE. Since 455 BCE works as the year the "word goes forth to rebuild Jerusalem" which is a pivotal date fulfilling the 70 weeks prophecy where the messiah's baptism in 29 CE establish the beginning of this prophecy, you have the OPTIONAL alignment of the Bible's timeline with the VAT4956 confirmed original NB dating. 607 BCE and 587 BCE are considered incompetent dates belonging to the revised timeline.

So true, no one can CONFIRM 455 BCE as the correct dating for the Jews return from Babylon, but it is the most academically correct dating at this point, and it is the Biblically correct date. Now, I've reporeted on the VAT4956. It's not my fault if people don't understand astronomy enough to know there is no further choice here.

32

Watchtower Comments GENERATION VIDEO

by V in

JCanon

INCREDIBLE! Great job! So professional! Thanks so much for your work in presenting these issues in video form!!! Applause, applause!

JC

18

Dispelling Myths: 1914 Expectations

by AuldSoul in

jehovah's witnesses currently teach that prior to 1914 no one could have predicted what happened in europe in 1914. they teach that the world was heading toward such idyllic stability that the events of 1914 caught everyone off-guard.

so surprised were the people of the time that they looked back with fondness at the calm preceding 1914 as a time that could never be gone back to.. what were the bible students teaching about 1914 prior to that year?

in what capacity did they claim to be teaching?.

JCanon

Yes, yes, old news, but in reality most JW's just don't care whether it was predicted that the end would come in 1914 or the beginning of the end would start in 1914. All that matters to them is that the Watchtower said something about 1914 and something significant did happen - WW1. If it weren't for the strange coincidence that WW1 started in 1914 then the entire chronology and teaching would have been dumped by nowo, or at least relegated to a meaningless, hardly mentioned creed like 1843 is with 7th Day Adventists.

Hi Yada.. I agree with this totally! WWI made 1914 a significant event, something that their own propaganda even stands up and takes notice. Fact is, the first "sign" is a world war in Matthew 24: "nation vs nation and kingdom vs kingdom." That is, several nations involved in a huge world conflict. So 1914 is still a good year to begin the "last generation" for sure. Witnesses do have that right. But it is not the year of the second coming (1992) nor the "end of the gentile times" (1947), two other things they link to 1914. But as you said, it's hard to ignore 1914 and JWs "coincidental" focus on that date, if even it was not a completely accurate focus. In reality, they have focussed on other dates as well that are still "Biblically significant" though for other reasons. Here is a brief rundown of the significant fulfillment dates during out time. 1874 -- Michael "stands up" (Daniel 12:1) to begin increased activity in the earth toward the second coming. Thus he did arrive at one level in 1874. Begins generation of 120 years from 1874-1994. 1886 - End of "2300 evenings and mornings" and beginning of 110 years to the end of Covenant Period in 1996. 1914 - Beginning of the "last generation" of both 40 years and 80 years, ending in 1954 and 1994, respectively. Last generation begins with a world war. Vineyard work of 11 hours begins, 77 years from 1914-1991. 1917: Balfour agreement to allow Jews to begin returning to Palestine. Considered fulfillment of the 1260 days leading toward 1290 days and 1335 days. 1935 - Acknowledgement of "3rd hour workers" after 21 years. Each hour is 7 years. Workers from 3rd hour are not told in advance they would receive the "penny" thus they believe they will receive "whatever is fair" meaning something less. This creates the "earthly" class within the organization who do not feel they are part of the heavenly class. Thus the appearance of the "other sheep" class was prophesied in the Bible via the vineyard parable. 1940: Ends 62 weeks in the last 490 years (1506-1996). The "cut off" of the Jews representing the messiah begins for 7 years from 1940-1947 in which 2/3rds of the Jews would be exterminated as prophesied (Zech13:8). Thus the "great tribulation" begins in 1940. These days were "cut short" when two-thirds of the Jews had been exterminated by late 1944. 1947: The true "end of the gentile times" and end of the 1290 days; messiah to arrive 45 years later. This begins the "70th Covenant Jubilee Week" for the Jews, the 70th jubilee period since the time in Egypt when Moses became their savior at age 30 in 1435 BCE. http://www.geocities.com/siaxares/jcovwk1996G.GIF 70th week for Jews begins. 1947 is the symbolic "END of the system of things" prophesied in Matthew. The "good news" by this time had been preached worldwide to fulfill the "good news" would be preached world wide, "and then the END will come." 1948: State of Israel established, fulfilling the budding of the fig tree, which occurs just before the messiah must appear "close at the doors." 1950: Scond coming messiah born. "Sign of the son of man" begins to appear in the skies as cloud imagery to the anointed. It is the last "sign" given to occur within a "generation" after WWI, thus fulfills a generation period of 40 years. Another generation of 40 years begins for testing the prodigal son messiah. 1954: 40-year generation after 1914 ends. 1960: Prodigal son messiah baptized on March 12th. 1971: "End of gift and sacrifice" for Jewish messiah when prodigal son messiah is disfellowshipped and thus killed, ending his "fruit of the lips" of praise. This is halfway into the 70th week of 1947-1996, 49 years. 1989: Begins 70th Christian week of last 70 weeks (1506-1996). Messiah set aside to fulfill 70th week of 1989-1996. 1991: End of 11th hour of vineyard work from 1914-1991. Final hour, that is the 12th hour begins, during which the "man of lawlessness" must be revealed before the messiah returns. (2 Thess 2:4). 12 hour ("last hour") begins 1991-1998. 1992: Year of the second coming begins based on three prophecies. Summer to summer 1992-1993: based on fall of Jerusalem in summer of 529 BCE. November 30: 1992-1993 for end of 1335 days, 45 years after 1947. Mid-week Passover from Passover of 1992 to Passover of 1993. Thus earthly messiah must become one with heavenly messiah within just a 4-month Period from December 1992 through March 1993 (up to April 6, 1993). "Man of Lawlessness" revealed on November 10,1992 when GB told they were evil slave and "man of lawlessness" and being dismissed from Jehovah's Heavenly Organization and thrown into spiritual darkness. December 25-26, 1993, actual SECOND COMING takes place, exactly 45 days after "man of lawlessness" revealed, to fulfill another pattern of 1290 and 1135 days. Then president Fred Franz dies on December 23, 1992 just days before the actual second coming. The "sign of the son of man" appears in late afternoon of December 26, 1992, confirming earthly and heavenly messiah have become one. Second coming event occurred in "Paramount" (California) April 6, 1993: THE LAST LORD'S SUPPER. The Lord's Supper/Memorial mantained by Christ's followers until he arrives is held one last time after messiah arrived in December of 1993. Last Supper occurred in "Temple City" (California). Sealing work of anointed can now officially begin, starting with the last-hour workers. Special feeding of the anointed "eagle" class begins from messiah that would last for 42 months. 1994: End of 120-year generation from 1874 and 80-year generation from 1914. Messiah arrives within 80-year generation of 1914 to fulfill Christ's words. 1996: End of last 490-year period of 70 weeks. End of both Jewish and Chrsitian Covenants. God's "chosen people" now centered in spiritual israel now being sealed and numbering 144,000 natural Jews and 1,296,000 gentiles. 1998: End of "last hour" and payment of 1st-hour workers, who embody the concept of the "ten virgins"; that is, the original anointed ones in the WT org. This is when the sudden "cry in the night" takes place to wake up the ten virgins. This is fulfilled by the messiah's publicly announcing his messiahship near the time of the Festival of Booths (fall) in 1998. The separation of the wise virgins and foolish virgins begin. The wise virgins with "extra oil" pay attention to the chronology of the second coming and also the prophetic parables about the prodigal son and Lazarus, confirming the true messiah. The foolish virgins do not have this interest so cannot see it. The wise virgins do not share their discovery of the true messiah and the wise and the foolish virgins part. December 26, 1998: Jehovah arranges for "sign of the son of man" to be photographed by skyscape photographer and provided to messiah. Messiah sees this versio of the "sign" and recognizes mock imagery in Revelation Book, confirming sign was seen by other anointed ones and the WTS is aware of the prodigal son doctrine. Sign appears on the 6th anniversary of the sign that appeared at the 2nd coming and during the precise hours.

http://www.geocities.com/siaxares/signson001jpg.JPG

In the meantime, research continues to provide the "earth" which swallows up the river of propaganda disgorged from Satan in attempts to drown the anointed. This is in the form of pseudo-scientific and pseudo-academic propaganda contradicting the Bible's history and chronology. But firm evidence supporting the Bible's timeline is amassed and swallows up that propaganda, like the VAT4956 511 BCE dates, confirming the original year 37 of Nebuchadnezzar that year, making the 587 BCE fall of Jerusalem clearly incompetent and fraudulent, etc. The Bible is vindicated.

2008 - Completion of spiritual temple occurs. Sealing of 1,440,000 spiritual Isael completed. The new spiritual temple now completed. JIOR await the destruction of BTG and Armageddon.

JC

26

Conscience

by Aleman in

i will start with a definition: this comes from wikipedia.

- conscience is a hypothesised ability or faculty that distinguishes whether our actions are right or wrong.

it leads to feelings of remorse when we do things that go against our moral values, and to feelings of rectitude or integrity when our actions conform to our moral values.

JCanon

Aleman, I understand your position and it is the position many people are in for various reasons. But one of those reasons is that some people do not have the intellectual capacity and background to research and reason, so when they face leaving the organization, they face leaving their only connection to Jehovah. So they stay and put up with the issues.

The fact of the matter is, though, the WTS is just one "slave" sent out where Christ is gathering sheep. It's the organization spoken of where Christ comes to separate the sheep from the goats because it is producing sheep and goats. So you don't need just the WTS organization to find Jehovah; allegedly, there are many other approved ones gathering. If Christ removes his sheep from the WTS who become the "little flock" then he has those gathering elsewhere that is a larger flock, "other sheep, not of this fold."

The KEY issue, though, is personal integrity to truth. If you allow yourself to water down the truth then you will have a watered down result of finding and pleasing Jehovah. If you hold onto the truth and insist on the truth, then you will be lead to the Christ.

So imagine the WTS as a broad road. You're in New York and your destination is Long Beach, California. Well going East on any number of roads for most of that trip will work. Only when you actually get close to your specific definition do you really need to pay attention to the signs. So the WTS is like that. It's okay to get you so far but at some point, those who find Jehovah must leave the broad road leading off intro destruction and go down the narrow path which is cramped and private.

In other words, the WTS was okay as an organization until Christ arrives. That is, the organization with the mixed sheep and goats was okay up to a point. The WTS is the field where fine seed was planted but then Satan came in with Pyramidology and Freemasonry and planted his seeds. Thus from the very beginning the organization was corrupted with that element. But the decision was made to gather sheep and wheat in this organization "until the harvest", that is, until the actual second coming. And then is when Christ would separate the sheep from the goats and the wheat from the weeds. He does that by exposing those who truly love truth and who are conscientious to the accurate knowledge. Those who love accurate knowledge respond. But those who have already decided not to insist on absolute truth or compromise the integrity of the Bible, will not respond, because it is not important for them to have absolute truth. Thus they are self-defined weeds. At that point the organization becomes dysfunctional for you because you are no longer using the organization to serve Jehovah. You have abandoned Jehovah and are just serving an organization that you have a comfort level with. You are doing what John in Revelation was warned against, and that is worshipping the angel that provides you with spiritual food. That is not to be done.

If you are faithful in little, you will be faithful in much. If you are unfaithful in little, you will be unfaithful in much. So basically, when you compromise your more important principles in the most important relationship you could have, which is with Jehovah, then you are essentially cutting your own throat. You are shortening your own lifeline.

THE CURRENT JW ORG PROBLEM: The current problem now with the WTS is that in 1992 Jehovah "disfellowshipped" the GB and threw them into spiritual darkness. So they are being punished. There is nothing they can do about it. Now those who are "awake" might see this quite clearly. When you compromise it is like closing your eyes, so you don't see it. You only see the superficially functioning organization, all the nice clean people and talk of a paradise earth. The WTS is like a whitewashed grave, so pretty on the outside but inside are full of dead men's bones and iniquities.

The organization can only go so far toward helping you in your relationship with Jehovah. If you want to improve that relationship and fervently seek Jehovah, then at some point you will have to psychologically, emotionally and doctrinally leave the WTS, whether or not you do that physically. The more loosely define your own relationship with Jehovah, the easier it is to be a witness. The more strictly you define your relationship with Jehovah and truth, the more difficult it is to be an active witness.

It was okay to be a witness up until 1992. Now its risky business. You have to ask yourself are you a "wheat" or "weed"? Are you "sheep" or "goat"? Jesus is not accepting any goats or weeds. If you want Jehovah and Christ you have to maintain your high standards of being wheat or sheep. Lower your standard to goat or weed and you will lose out, due to your own choice.

Now, it's unfortunate what has happened to the WTS, especially since, indeed, it had a special role in the end-times, but the fact is they have become the prophesied "evil slave" organization now and if the Bible is really true, there are at least 9 other sects out there that are approved by Jehovah. The only other public one I know of is Judaism. The rest are secretive societies. If I were going to rejoin a public religion I would feel comfortable being Jewish. But I don't need too, obviously, since I have found those secret organizations in "the wilderness". When you leave the broad road organization, you follow the narrow, secret path to the secret places in the wilderness where Christ is gathering his true sheep. But you won't ever get there by compromising the truth. Mixing a little lie with the truth, which is what you propose will not work with Jehovah.

You see the WTS as a very nice organization doing their best though they have some problems, only because you are not looking and your eyes are closed. If your eyes are open, you'll see what a dishonest and trecherous, Illuminti-run organization they are.

JC

7

Daniel 4:15 and the iron/copper banding of the tree

by behemot in

in his book four strange books of the bible: jonah, daniel, kohelet, esther (shocken books, new york 1967), elias j. bickerman, commenting on daniel 4:15, states that representations of the "sacred tree" with bandings similar to those described in that verse have been found on mesopotamian monuments.. i'm reading a translation of the book that lack notes and therefore i'm not able to trace the information's source.

does anyone here know about this iconography and its possible meaning?.

behemot.

JCanon

Well, this is interesting they can't figure the banding out. Allow me...

The tree stump represents the earthly kingship representation of God's kingdom. It is banded to prevent it from growing during the "7 times". If you band a tree, it can't grow.

The band of iron first then copper simply represent the first and second coming messiahs. The first is a white man, a Jews and the second a "copper man" or black man, the Ethiopian eunuch messiah. Jesus is copper colored at the second coming. In Revelation he is noted to have legs of copper.

So much for Biblical symbolism understood....

JC

31

How "Bible Prophecy" Will Soon Be Disproven!

by metatron in

it's very simple: all this 'prophetic' ( or pathetic) nonsense about "anglo-america" is going to come to an end in a few years.. china has already become the world's biggest exporter:.

http://www.manufacturingnews.com/news/06/0905/art1.html.

in ten years, they will become the largest economy - with the biggest population.

JCanon

Nice try, metatron, but this doesn't work with CHRONOLOGY. Numbers, math, are absolutes!
Really!!!!! Then why are you MIXING the Jewish calendar and the Gregorian/Julian calendar?

I'm not sure "exactly" what you mean. But I think you mean the Jewish luni-solar system with a simple annual calendar? The Jews had a LUNI-SOLAR calendar and thus their lunar months were coordinated with the solar calendar. So it is not necessary to MIX the two, since both were solar calendars, essentially. 100 yaears for the Jews was 100 luni-solar years, meaning solar years. So there is no problem "mixing" the two since they are the same. They are not incompatible or contradictory as you seem to suggest? JC

73

The 70 years of devastation--as revealed by the Bible

by AddaGirl in

watchtower teachings say this period is from 607 bce to 537 bce.

most of the documentation relating to the seventy years indicates that period to be 609 bce to 539 bce, the rule of the babylonian empire.

i wrote to headquarters, because as a bible study student i knew i could ask questions about certain doctrines that those baptized cannot without consequence and some of the information i received from them was very helpful especially when it was used to verify the chronology of the kings of judah and israel through the bible.. the bible says there are actually (2) 70-year periods.. the first being one of servitude to the babylonians of both israel & judah from 609 bce to 539 bce.

JCanon

Hi Ann:

Jer. 44:29,30 says the sign that YHWH's punishment on those who fled to Egypt was to be a reality was that Pharoah Hophra (Apries) would be handed over to his enemies. Hophra was deposed by a coup in 570 BCE. It's thought he died a little while later. We also know of a fragmentary record of a campaign by Nebuchadnezzar against Egypt and Pharaoh Amasis (Hophra's successor) in his 37th year or 568 BCE. So it's unlikely that the deportation in the 23rd year came from Egypt, if we are to factor in Jeremiah's prophecies.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but...

The idea that the Jews deported in year 23 came from Egypt is a DIRECT QUOTE from Josephus. Thus Josephus has to be contradicted here to move the 23rd year deportation from Egypt elsewhere. Here is that direct quote.

ANT 10.9. the twenty-third of the reign of Nebuchadnezzar, he made an expedition against Celesyria; and when he had possessed himself of it, he made war against the Ammonites and Moabites; and when he had brought all these nations under subjection, he fell upon Egypt, in order to overthrow it; and he slew the king that then reigned (16) and set up another; and he took those Jews that were there captives, and led them away to Babylon. And such was the end of the nation of the Hebrews.....,; but the king of Babylon, who brought out the two tribes, (17) placed no other nation in their country, by which means all Judea and Jerusalem, and the temple, continued to be a desert for seventy years."

See? We have a direct quote from Josephus claiming a deportation of those in Egypt in year 23 that left the land of Judah desolated for 70 years.

What we have to do now is see if that harmonizes with the Bible. It does. The Bibilical references are Jer. 44:14, 28 which notes that those who "escaped from the sword" would return to Judea. Thus we find at 2 Chronicles 36 this same phrase being used in connection with the last deportation...

20 Furthermore, he carried off those remaining from the sword captive to Babylon, and they came to be servants to him and his sons until the royalty of Persia began to reign; 21 to fulfill Jehovah’s word by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had paid off its sabbaths. All the days of lying desolated it kept sabbath, to fulfill seventy years.

Notice this is specific: "those remaining from the sword." This is not a general reference to all Jews but to those specifically spared from the sword of Nebuchadnezzar's massacre when he arrived there in year 23. Thus even the Bible links those last deported to those left down in Egypt. Now since the Bible promised Baruch his life, and obviously Jeremiah, and we know both were down in Egypt, they would be part of those "remaining from the sword" and thus this tells us when they were deported. Thus the last deportation from Egypt via Judea matches the account of the traditional Jewish history. Any suggestion that there is a question about who those last deported were or from where is a matter of unfamiliarity with the reference. Nebuchadnezzar's 37th year campaign, therefore, had nothing to do with any Jewish deportation.

Interesting, though, that you'd know about Apries in Nebuchadnezzar's 37th year and not know about Josephus' direct reference for the deportation. Again, it becomes quite interesting to me why so many false and academically irresponsible presumptions persist. It's just AMAZING!!!

JC

73

The 70 years of devastation--as revealed by the Bible

by AddaGirl in

watchtower teachings say this period is from 607 bce to 537 bce.

most of the documentation relating to the seventy years indicates that period to be 609 bce to 539 bce, the rule of the babylonian empire.

i wrote to headquarters, because as a bible study student i knew i could ask questions about certain doctrines that those baptized cannot without consequence and some of the information i received from them was very helpful especially when it was used to verify the chronology of the kings of judah and israel through the bible.. the bible says there are actually (2) 70-year periods.. the first being one of servitude to the babylonians of both israel & judah from 609 bce to 539 bce.

JCanon

You've already seen that it's hard to come to any firm conclusions as to the identity of Darius the Mede given there's no evidence of his existence outside the Bible.

This is a completely irresponsible statement since lots of people understood who Darius the Mede was. But case in point is Sir Isaac Newton who gives lots of details about Darius the Mede. Wonder where he got that information if "there's no evidence of his existence outside the Bible"?

An exerpt from Sir Isaac Newton's "A Short Chronicle" which covers the Babylonian timeline. Were you aware of the Darius the Mede references by Sir Isaac Newton?

609. Josiah slain. Cyaxeres and Nebuchadnezzar overthrow Nineveh, and, by sharing the Assyrian Empire, grow great.
607. Creon the first annual Archon of the Athenians. The second Messian war begins. Cyaxeres makes the Scythians retire beyond Colchos and Iberia, and seizes the Assyrian Provinces of Armenia, Pontus and Cappadocia.
606. Nebuchadnezzar invades Syria and Judaea.
604. Nabopolassar dies, and is succeeded by his Son Nebuchadnezzar, who had already Reigned two years with his father.
600. Darius the Mede, the son of Cyaxeres, is born.
599. Cyrus is born of Mandane, the Sister of Cyaxeres, and daughter of Astyages.
596. Susiana and Elam conquered by Nebuchadnezzar. Caranus and Perdiccas fly from Phidon, and found the Kingdom of Macedon. Phidon introduces Weighs and Measures, and the Coining of Silver Money.
590. Cyaxeres makes war upon Alyattes King of Lydia.
588. The Temple of Solomon is burnt by Nebuchadnezzar. The Messenians being conquired, fly into Sicily, and build Messana.
585. In the sixth year of the Lydian war, a total Eclipse of the Sun, predicted by Thales, May the 28th, puts an end to a Battel between the Medes and Lydians: Whereupon they make Peace, and ratify it by a marriage between Darius Medus the son of Cyaxeres, and Ariene the daughter of Alyattes.
584. Phidon presides in the 49th Olympiad.
580. Phidon is overthrown. Two men chosen by lot, out of the city Elis, to preside in the Olympic Games.
572 Draco is Archon of the Athenians, and makes laws for them.
568. The Amphictious make war upon the Cirrheans, by the advice of Solon, and take Cirrha. Clifthenes, Alcmaeon and Eurolicus commanded the forces of the Amphictions, and were contemporary to Phidon. For Leocides the son of Phidon, and Megacles the son of Alcmaeon, at one and the same time, courted Agarista the daughter of Clifthenes.
569. Nebuchadnezzar invades Egypt. Darius the Mede Reigns.
562. Solon, being Archon of the Athenians, makes laws for them.
557. Periander dies, and Corinth becomes free from Tyrants.
555. Nabonadius Reigns at Babylon. His Mother Nitocris adorns and fortifies that City.
550. Pisistratus becomes Tyrant at Athens. The Conference between Croesus and Solon.
549. Solon dies, Hegestratus being Archon of Athens.
544. Sardes is taken by Cyrus. Darius the Mede recoins the Lydian money into Darics.
538. Babylon is taken by Cyrus.
536. Cyrus overcomes Darius the Mede, and translates the Empire to the Persians. The Jews return from Captivity, and found the second Temple.
529. Cyrus dies. Cambyses Reigns,

No evidence outside the Bible of Darius the Mede? Well it so happens lots of coins from his reign exist! The original DARIC was from his reign. Oh, I see, coins from a non-existent king?

I wonder what WIKIPADEDIA has to say about the DARIC?

Here is a picture of the original Babylonian king Darius the Mede on the DARIC:

alt

Funny to me, Sir Isaac Newton seemed to find plenty of information and evidence on Darius the Mede. Now I wonder where he got his information since you claim there is "no evidence" outside the Bible of who he was. I guess that means you're not really that much of an expert on the topic of Darius the Mede then, right?

It's amazing how ill-informed the "experts" on these topics are. It's incredible!

JC

73

The 70 years of devastation--as revealed by the Bible

by AddaGirl in

watchtower teachings say this period is from 607 bce to 537 bce.

most of the documentation relating to the seventy years indicates that period to be 609 bce to 539 bce, the rule of the babylonian empire.

i wrote to headquarters, because as a bible study student i knew i could ask questions about certain doctrines that those baptized cannot without consequence and some of the information i received from them was very helpful especially when it was used to verify the chronology of the kings of judah and israel through the bible.. the bible says there are actually (2) 70-year periods.. the first being one of servitude to the babylonians of both israel & judah from 609 bce to 539 bce.

JCanon

Yes, the 18th and 19th regnal years of Nebuchadnezzar as mentioned in the Bible are considered to be referring to the same calendar year (587). But the reason is the Jews used the non-accession method of counting reigns (1-2-3-4, etc.), while the Babylonians used the accession year system (0-1-2-3, etc.), and it is thought that Jeremiah 52:28-30 used a Babylonian source, hence captives taken in the 18th year here. (Same issue with Jer. 52:28 and 2 Kings 24:12.) In addition, years ran Spring to Spring (Nisan to Nisan), so - certainly as far as Babylon was concerned - even if a king began to reign half-way through a year, his Year 1 would begin the next Spring. By the way, Nebuchadnezzar was enthroned in the 6th month (Ululu which corresponds to Aug/Sept) - see http://www.livius.org/cg-cm/chronicles/abc5/jerusalem.html.

This is a COMMON misconception. The fact is, that if you compare the Babylonian Chronicle with the Bible, you will see there is literally a one-year difference. The Babylonian Chronicle says that he deported Jehoiachin in year 7. But the Bible says it was year 8. This cannot be harmonized because Ezekiel was deported in the year 7 deportation. Further, the Bible relates the conflict with Necho to fall in the 1st year of Nebuchadnezzar harmonizing with year 4 of Jehoiakim. Year 3 is when Daniel was deported. So during the revision period, to squeeze more years out of the NB Period in order to expand the Persian Period, they combined events from the accession year of Nebuchadnezzar and his first year, which moved everything back by 1 year. The text itself confirms it was copied during the reign of Darius, so we know it was revised.

Thus it is not an option to combine and either/or issue with years 18 and 19 mentioned in the Bible with the same year. There was specifically deportations during the the accession year of Nebuchadnezzar, one in the 7th years, which was Ezekiel, which you can counter-compare with the rule of Nebuchadnezzar, one in year 8, as the Bible says, one in year 18, 19 and 23. They all have different numbers.

Now, I know this will be ignored because I know the lack of capacity that exists when an option like this occurs. So I'll just note for you, that if the 11th year of Zedekiah matches the 19th year of Nebuchadnezzar, the year Jerusalem fell, then there is an 8-year difference. Thus year 1 of Zedekiah would be year 9 of Nebuchadnezzar. THAT, is consistent with Jehoiachin being deported on the last day of the 8th year of Nebuchadnezzar as the Bible says (2 Kings 24:11...)

And Neb·u·chad·nez´zar the king of Babylon proceeded to come against the city, while his servants were laying siege against it.
12 At length Je·hoi´a·chin the king of Judah went out to the king of Babylon, he with his mother and his servants and his princes and his court officials; and the king of Babylon got to take him in the eighth year of his being king."

Again, he was deported on the very last day of the year. Zedekiah began ruling after that, so essentially his rule began in the 9th year of Nebuchadnezzar. Again, this is confirmed since Zedekiah's 11th year matches Nebuchadnezzar's 19th year, the year Jerusalem fell.

I know some people think there is flexiblity here, but my position is that the Bible understood the accession year system of the Babylonians and all their references to the year of the king of Babylon was reflective of the accession year system when it referenced Nebuchadnezzar. Thus the contradiction with the revised Babylonian Chronicle is truly a 1-year contradiction based upon revisionism. The Bible assigns a 45-year rule to Nebuchadnezzar, the revised chronology only 43, but also the events during his rule are a year off as well.

Now, of course, the absolute chronology of the Bible and the VAT4956 confirms that year 19 of Nebuchadnezzar was indeed the year Jerusalem fell as the Bible says, that is, based upon 511 BCE as the original dating for year 37, year 19 falls in 529 BCE. Year 23 would fall in 525 BCE, which must be exactly 70 years from the 1st of Cyrus which per the Bible must fall in 455 BCE. This is not NEGOTIABLE at this point since the VAT4956. It's a matter of correcting this, or being out of date or incompetent, or perhaps living in a fantasy world.

Year 19 of Nebuchadnezzar is year 19 of Nebuchadnezzar per the accession year system. Period. The fall of Jerusalem is expressed in terms of both Babylonian and Judean kingships, namely year 11 of Zedekiah and year 19 of Nebuchadnezzar. There is no problems harmonizing these years when you deport Jehoiachin in year 8 of Nebuchadnezzar as the Bible says. Here's how the king's list looks from the time of Jehoiakim through the end of Nebuchandezzar's 45-year rule.

550 JHK01 NABOPAL-15
549 JHK02 NABOPAL-16
548 JHK03 1ST DEPORT. NABOPAL-17 NABOPAL-17 NEBUCH2-ACC
547 JHK04 NECHO ATTACK NEBUCH2-01 (18)
546 JHK05 NEBUCH2-02 (19)
545 JHK06 NEBUCH2-03 (20)
544 JHK07 NEBUCH2-04 (21)
543 JHK08 NEBUCH2-05 (22)
542 JHK08 NEBUCH2-06 (23)
541 JHK10 2ND DEPORT. NEBUCH2-07 (24)
540 JHK11 JHC.3 3RD DEPORT. NEBUCH2-08 (25)
539 ZED01 NEBUCH2-09 (1st exile of Jehoiachin-month 5)(26)
538 ZED02 NEBUCH2-10 (2nd, month 5)(27)
537 ZED03 NEBUCH2-11 (3rd, month 5)(28)
536 ZED04 NEBUCH2-12 (4th, month 5)(29)
535 ZED05 NEBUCH2-13 (5th, month 5)(30th of Nabopolassar)
534 ZED06 NEBUCH2-14
533 ZED07 NEBUCH2-15
532 ZED08 NEBUCH2-16
531 ZED09 NEBUCH2-17
530 ZED10 4TH DEPORT. NEBUCH2-18
529 ZED11 JERUSALEM DESTROYED NEBUCH2-19 (5TH D.)
528 GEDALIAH01 NEBUCH2-20
527 GEDALIAH02 NEBUCH2-21
526 NEBUCH2-22
525 (70-YEARS BEGINS) 6TH DEPORT. NEBUCH2-23
524 NEBUCH2-24
523 NEBUCH2-25
522 NEBUCH2-26
521 NEBUCH2-27
520 NEBUCH2-28
519 NEBUCH2-29
518 NEBUCH2-30
517 NEBUCH2-31
516 NEBUCH2-32
515 NEBUCH2-33
514 NEBUCH2-34
513 NEBUCH2-35
512 NEBUCH2-36
511 NEBUCH2-37
510 NEBUCH2-38
509 NEBUCH2-39
508 NEBUCH2-40
507 NEBUCH2-41
506 NEBUCH2-42
505 NEBUCH2-43
504 NEBUCH2-44
503 NEBUCH2-45

JC

7

Is this present new millennium judgement day?

by the sage in

have we entered the seventh millennium?.

are we now living in the time of christ's promised second coming?

have we entered the one thousand year period of his rule as the prince of peace, the conclusion to god's seven thousand year rest day?.

JCanon

I checked this book out and then tried to find out more about the author and IT'S YOU!!!! How exciting!!

Did you know your book is available at TARGET? (See, I did check you out)!. I also read page 186. It is easy to see you were an ex-JW.

Obviously, I have my own timeline so 6000 years do not run out per my timeline until 2131 AD, give or take a year. But one thing I liked was that you didn't really end the 6ch Creative Day until Adam was 30. I too agree that 30 is likely the age Eve was created. I factor that into my chronology as well.

Your book is well written and easy to follow. I can tell the witness influence though. One stunning example is thinking the woman in Revelation is God's woman. You don't deal with Satan attacking this woman and her having to flee to the "wilderness" to any great extent. To me, this proves this cannot be a heavenly woman but an earthly woman: "Rejoice you heavens, but woe to the earth." That woman represents the earth and is connected to it. If this woman was truly God's woman, the faithful angels, not only would they not be afraid of Satan, having just conquered him, but also Satan would have no access to them since they are in heaven and Satan has been kicked out of heaven. You also follow the WTS in presuming this child born is not the messiah himself but represents God's kingdom and his authority to bring forth the one who would bruise Satan in the head. See? I did read some of your book. But at least you represent the child as the messiah and not just the kingdom as the WTS does. That is, Christ comes out of God's heavenly woman. But this is a super generalization that ignores the timing here of when Satan is kicked out of heaven, etc. So it was interesting to see how you handled this.

As far as the chronology goes, since you are an author, you clearly know how to research. What I found was that Xerxes faked his death and claimed to be Artaxerxes with the help of Themistocles. If you look up Plutarch, you can see there was a huge controversy even in his time over just whom Themistocles fled to. But since Themistocles is part of the conspiracy, obviously the sources where he claims he went to Artaxerxes only would be based on his statement. But the actual interview with XERXES is historically preserved by Plutarch, a complete contradiction to the current history. But the discrepancy is explained when you realize they were the same king but claiming otherwise. Once you start here, then the Persian and Greek Chronology implodes on itself. What my research has basically done is confirmed what Martin Anstey in his "Romance of Bible Chronology" always surmised, which is that there is 82 years too many during the Persian Period. I confirmed where those 82 years are and why they were added.

http://www.geocities.com/siaxares/709guide.html

If that is the case, then he concept of the millennium having begun already can be adjusted.

THE MOST INTERESTING REFLECTION, though, is that I just realized that 1975 was the date JWs identified as 6000 years of man's history. The scandal over 1975 not bringing Armageddon has distracted from the fact that the WTS still has that timeline and so must be wondering while the millennium hasn't begun! But they don't even TOUCH that now! They have no mention of any 6000 years of man's existence. Thus their theory about the millennium being the 7th 1000 years of the 7th Crative Day is in LIMBO!!! I just realized they have no answer for how that is suposed to work out now!!

I see you have adjusted the concept a bit to extend to 2002 in relation to Satan's rule. But even so, it must not make any sense in 2008, now some 33 years after the fact, that the millennium theory in connection with the 6000-year theory now doesn't work. Especially since they maintain the same timeline! I hadn't given it much concern since I had my own corrected timeline. I didn't think about what they must be thinking about the 6000-year concept.

Just for the record, you do sort of focus that when the 7th Creative Day is cover, God makes all things new after the 49,000 years. I agree with that. But after the 1000 years, you know Satan is let out for a while and then there is Judgment Day, when all the dead come back. I believe these two events do happen within the 7th Crative Day so that by the time it ends, all things are as they should be before and thus God saying he is "making all things new" is a reference to the beginning of the 8th Creative Day. Thus, as I have published before, based on my chronology research, though 6000 years after Eve's Creation, when Adam was 30, might end in 2131 AD, I allow 40 years for Satan's last test and 80 years for Judgment Day, on this side of the 8th Creative Day. Thus the millennium is not the very last 1000 years, but makes room for 120 years after the millennium for Satan's last test and Judmgent Day. That moves the 2131 AD date that marks the last 1000 years up to 2011 AD. Still a future date, but a reasonable date to see the millennium based upon all the presumptions. I allow about 2 years for the fall of Babylon and Armageddon leading up to the millennium, so we're down to the wire as far as my presumptive chronology goes. So I have no disappointed 6000-year issues as far as the millennium already beginning, or reinterpreting the milllennium other than as presented directly in scripture. We'll see what happens when 2011 rolls around, but for now, everything works out, and I have absolute confidence in the timeline adjustments, directly confirmed, by the VAT4956.

Thanks for drawing attention to your book. Obviously, you have a passion for chronology and seeing the Bible fulfilled.

Regards,

JC