Posts by DrJohnStMark

26

What made you think?

by greenie in

jw
friends

i know this topic has been covered, so feel free to ignore me or point me to another post for your response, but i'm just curious: what made you first think the jws didn't have it all?

what it a slow process or like a lightening strike?.

for me, a non-jw, it was like a lightening strike when i started reading about the blood issue..

I started to think a lot after my children were born and also, for the first time in many years, I got some time to. Seeing them grow and learn, so open and good, I just could no more accept the WT concept of sin. More important, I could no more accept the plans the God of JW was supposed to have for most children now living on earth or what he was said to have done in the past.

Just go and watch small children running and smiling in the school yard or kindergarten playground. Look carefully, take your time. Then imagine someone would come and have them drowned one by one in a nearby pond. That is what the God of JW has done. As an act of God, Noah's flood that we were taught to believe in, is so out of all proportions.

I need to note that already before that, I knew for sure that from the scientific point of view the flood could not have happened in the way described e.g. in the WTBTS book Is the Bible Really Word of God? However, that knowledge alone had not been enough for me... the emotional intelligence, when given the chance, was the key. I would expect it to be in many cases more effective in making a JW think than just knowledge they have been programmed to disregard.

80

To Current and Former Elders

by Styxx in

i wanted to say a few things to current and former elders.

it was really a post by alltimejeff on 10/1/2009 that got me thinking about this and i address a few things that he says here.

but i dont want to single him out because i really think that he is typical of many, and he did in fact apologize for his actions at the end of his post.

DrJohnStMark

I was to become an elder, but fortunately quit before that. I remember I did enjoy polishing and giving speeches... but what would you expect, after being pushed down by the organization all your life and now on stage? Did I really want to become an elder? I do know somebody else close to me wanted it to happen. I hope I did not. It's hard to tell, though, since I was somebody else. I do not recognize the guy, yet I feel something may be left of that externally imposed ambition... not really an ambition at all as pointed out by Styxx... it pops up at times.

11

Jehovah and Satan and universal sovereignity - so what?

by DrJohnStMark in

what really is the biblical support for this major doctrine of the wt society?

when i was still a pioneer, we met a young lady at her door, crying and holding a small disabled baby, asking for an explanation.

my friend, it was his turn at the door, started to mumble something about universal sovereignity.

DrJohnStMark

You cant get out of the book of Genesis and satan proves h was right.

I remember looking at the figures of the WT book True peace and security – how can you find it? (1986, a 2nd edition of an older book) and in those Satan looks much more intelligent and dynamic than poor Jesus (do not have a copy any more).

11

Jehovah and Satan and universal sovereignity - so what?

by DrJohnStMark in

what really is the biblical support for this major doctrine of the wt society?

when i was still a pioneer, we met a young lady at her door, crying and holding a small disabled baby, asking for an explanation.

my friend, it was his turn at the door, started to mumble something about universal sovereignity.

DrJohnStMark

What really is the biblical support for this major doctrine of the WT society? When I was still a pioneer, we met a young lady at her door, crying and holding a small disabled baby, asking for an explanation. My friend, it was his turn at the door, started to mumble something about universal sovereignity. The lady literally threw us out, for a reason. I was so ashamed. Many times after that I was about to ring the bell again but just could not. An elder in the congregation reminded me about parents taking their kid to a painful operation (from the WT book You can live in paradise...) but that was no explanation: the parents do so because they are not almighty and have no other choice. Back to the WT explanation... so I wrote this story:

Jehovah, small Jesus and Satan are sitting at a sandbox.

Jesus says to Satan: My father built this sandbox.

Satan replies: Jehovah is my father too, my mom said so.

Jesus to Jehovah: Is that true? Does my mom know?

Jehovah to Jesus: Well, boy, when you grow up, you'll learn about some things... oh shit, those ants are climbing my leg.... they do not respect the Lord of creation...

Jesus to Jehovah: Dad, you did not answer my question, do not change the topic!

Jehovah to Jesus: My son, go to the ants... (Proverbs 6:6), you can learn many things from them.

Jesus answers: Dad, let those ants be. And they are not evil. You did not answer me.

Jehovah gets nervous: I shall get a hosepipe and rinse those ants to hell.

Satan is smiling...

Jesus goes to his Father: Dad, please do not put your anger on the ants...

After the sandbox is flushed, Jehovah seems more calm.

Soon after that, the ants are building up something again...

Jesus likes that: Look, dad, at the ants and get wise (Proverbs 6:6), you cannot prevent them!

Jehovah gets furious: Those ants shall know that I am Jehovah! (Ezekiel 36:23)

Satan gets hilarious...

Jehovah runs into the house to get some ant poison.

Soon after the ants get confused in their building project.

Jehovah boasts: What do you say now? Who rules?

Jesus answers: I still like the ants. Tell me, Dad, why is it not so that I could die but they not?

Jehovah thinks a while: Do not be silly, boy. Things like that only happen in fairy tales.

Jesus continues: Dad, is Satan really my brother?

Jehovah replies: Well boy, it just happened that...

Satans gets back: Jesus, guess what, whose money was used to buy me a new bicycle?

Jehovah admits to Jesus: ...eh... Satan is your brother, really.

Jesus looks at Satan and hugs him: Now I understand why you sometimes are jealous of dad. My dear brother!

Jehovah admits: I may have neglected you, Satan.

Jesus says to Jehovah and Satan: Dad, let us all be friends. Also let the ants live their own life free! They are innocent and brought by chance on our yard.

Jehovah replies: Out of the mouths of babes... (Matthew 21:16)

Jesus rejoices: And also Satan can play in this sandbox with us and go to and fro in it and walk up and down in it! (Job 1:7)

15

Astronomers spot 'most distant object in the universe'

by Doug Mason in

from the online news at yahoo for 29 october 2009:.

scientists have observed the most distant object in the universe, thought to come from a star that exploded more than 13 billion years ago.

the research team, published their findings in the journal "nature".

DrJohnStMark

And I expected to live at least 13 billion years in paradise on earth...

35

New Understanding of "This Generation"

by snowbird in

am i dreaming this, or is the wt teaching "the generation that will not pass away" to be those who knew some of the anointed of 1914?.

are they crazy?

(not a rhetorical question).. sylvia.

DrJohnStMark

"Does not make sense to me. That is how I am seeing what they mean. It is just crazy."

Yes. The Holy Spirit has spoken through the Governing Body again.

35

New Understanding of "This Generation"

by snowbird in

am i dreaming this, or is the wt teaching "the generation that will not pass away" to be those who knew some of the anointed of 1914?.

are they crazy?

(not a rhetorical question).. sylvia.

DrJohnStMark

So the WT society has done it again. This way they can escape anything... except their own history.

In fact you could extend their logic indefinetely. As another example, consider the thing that Jesus promised to come back before the generation would pass away (Mt.24:34). Now the problem with his promise could, using this innovative WT logic, be 'explained out' by saying: "When Jesus promised that he would come back during that generation, Jesus meant by that those who saw those who saw those who saw ... (span over 2000 years) ... those who saw those who saw and heard Jesus talk."

25

Just read one of them 'apocryphal books'

by sd-7 in

dudes.

dudettes.

apostates and loyalists alike.

DrJohnStMark

Certainly true. In the past the WT society frequently cited the Jerusalem Bible, in particular some of its footnotes. So I decided to get one, but that time the New Jerusalem Bible was already available. I still have it, a nicely bound edition with lots of background information and footnotes and the standard apocryphal books. For any JW, it would be quite beneficial to read also other footnotes of this one, not just those picked by the society (like I first did ). The story will look quite different and the development of the canon and the major doctrines of christianity become transparent.

25

Just read one of them 'apocryphal books'

by sd-7 in

dudes.

dudettes.

apostates and loyalists alike.

DrJohnStMark

Need to add: Of course, of great interest, related to the Society's delirious interpretation of Dan.11, is 1.Macc.1, after which no further explanation is needed (and I shall not explain, just read it there), see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_Maccabees. For me, finding it in a public library, after getting a hint in the footnote of a modern bible translation, was one of the keys to freedom in the first place.

25

Just read one of them 'apocryphal books'

by sd-7 in

dudes.

dudettes.

apostates and loyalists alike.

DrJohnStMark

If you read the Bible, you observe that the God himself did not really know much about Satan, perhaps it became clear for him in the course of time. Nameley, in the Old Testament (OT), it is not told that the figure behind the Eden snake was Satan. Try to find...

A major JW doctrine, on which everything is hung, is that some kind of a big principle has been called into question... about sovereignity between God and Satan. A funny thing is that you cannot find this doctrine defined in the in the OT.

Even vorse, in the New Testament (NT) this is not told us either and, what is told, is certainly not in the JW style. It is true that in the NT Satan lurks in here and there, but his existence does not appear as a central point in Christ's teachings in any way.

So was Jehovah so diabolic that he held this information out of reach for us for centuries? And then finally it revealed to Russell and Rutherford (hih)? In their publications Satan would then be written a bigger role than in the Bible.

The role of Satan, however, is said to be a key teaching of WT society? But then it is ONLY found in the Apocryphal texts of the OT. Just see the Book of Wisdom and the Book of Enoch. Just read those books and you find that the JW world explanation relies on information from the Apcrypha.

This explains you why JWs are not to read those texts. Reading them would make evident, where the interpretations about what happened in Eden and about Satan's role came from, and that it all reflects only the 'questionable' tradition of the Apocrypha, vhich the WT says is uninspired.

Reading list (not long): The Book of Enoch and The Book of Wisdom. Why is it that central elements of the Truth(TM) are to be found on these only?