Hey Cofty! Although coming from a different direction, I have come to exactly the same conclusion. BTW after a spiritual awakening and journey I now identify as SBNR (Spiritual But Not Religious). I believe we are all born SBNR although not awakened spiritually. Religion is a later and illegitimate imposition which deliberately and by design steals our faith and salvation, sets us on a destructive and supremacist path of trying to attain self-righteousness, divides us, controls us, dumbs us down, imprisons our minds and free will, blinds us, radicalises us, abuses us and confuses us. As a result, and by design, most folk embrace baby and bathwater (or honey and arsenic) for a season, and then toss out both, without ever having had the opportunity to tell them apart and toss the bathwater (or arsenic). Although the Watchtower misrepresents the facts, rogue Judge JF Rutherford did actually teach and write repeatedly that ALL religion is a snare and a racket. It appears the notion of "false religion" versus "true religion" was a later invention of the WBT$.
Fernando
JoinedPosts by Fernando
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22
Religion or Cult - How to Tell The Difference
by cofty ini don't believe the question is binary.
all religions are cults its just a matter of degree.. .
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Need help showing a family member the real truth behind the Society
by screwface inhey everybody im pretty new on this site, but i need help.i just got into a 30 minute debate about religion, jehovah's witnesses mostly.
now i was in the trooth for 20 years, but ive been dissed twice.
the last time i was dissed for five years.
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Fernando
Hey screwface!
Sorry to hear about the struggle. Yup, spiritual blindness is a debilitating disease. And yes there is a medicine - one that the Watchtower surreptitiously attacks and is secretly terrified of. It is called the "good news" - just not the Watchtower version of it.
You might recall that when we door knocked we were told that we were "publishers of the good news" when in fact we were "publishers of religion". The two are polar opposites, especially in the area of self-righteousness or works-righteousness - versus - gifts-righteousness or IMPUTED righteousness. Paul has a lot to say about this especially in Romans 3 and 4. Jesus too had a lot to say in Matthew 23. If I was told I could have only 3 chapters in the Bible these would be the ones!
In short you might want to ask your nephew and parents to study the "good news according to Paul" with you. They most likely will be completely stumped. Persist by helping them to use the Watchtower library search tools to count how many times the Bible speaks of the "good news" (±152 times). Then get them to count how many of the Bible's references to the "good news" are by Paul (±85 times, ie more than half!!!). It is at this point that they will either begin to allow or deny the holy spirit chance to convict them of their ignorance and dysfunction.
Don't let them bring in an "expert"! Haven't they been "publishers of the good news" for decades? You want THEM to study the "good news according to PAUL" with YOU.
It is not possible for an honest hearted person to continue pursuing the full unabridged "good news" ABOUT JESUS (not about doctrine and dogma) and remain blind and captive to the Watchtower. It took our family 3½ years to get out intact!
The "good news" was expressly designed to properly break both spiritual blindness and captivity as one can see in this paraphrase of Isaiah 61:1:
"The spirit of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah is upon me [Jesus], for the reason that Jehovah has anointed me [Jesus] to tell [the] good news to the meek ones [sheep or wheat]. He has sent me [Jesus] to bind up the brokenhearted [spiritually deprived and unregenerated], to proclaim [spiritual] liberty to those taken [spiritually] captive [by religion/ists] and the wide opening [of the spiritual eyes] even to the [spiritual] prisoners [of religion/ists]".
Greetings
Fernando
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64
Starting to read Crisis of Conscience....
by confuzzled777 inafter almost 2 years of being wrongfully disfellowshipped and over a year after finding this site....i am starting to read crisis of conscience.
i will not lie....i am a bit nervous as to what information i will find in the book.
i have a strong feeling that i will end up crying through most of it as i will start to see the truth about the "truth".
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Fernando
Hey confuzzled777!
This article on “legalism” (supremacist efforts at self-righteousness by means of following the “right” rules) is a real eye-opener: g79 6/8 pp. 27-28. It was probably written by Ray and so is a really good primer for ISOCF.
Greetings
Fernando
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28
Being Transgendered
by mariemcg inhi my name is marie.
i was brought up in the truth from birth being born xy.
i went through torture as a child being born this way and apearing female in every way, even wearing boy clothes.. at the age of 15 years old decided that going through the amendment of my gender identity was a must and sought medical adv at the earliest oppertunity... this lead to me being thrown out of my home at the tender age of 15.... as time past they accepted me as their daughter a few months later.. thanks to jehovah as i was getting involved in a lot of bad things to keep a roof over my head.. at the age of 20 they paid for my surgery for which i've never looked back from and feel so much more comfortable with my body and myself.. i'm quite sure if i'd remained as my birth sex that i would not be here now writing this.. i started going back to the meetings shortly after having surgery and was met with some love and predjudice to the extent of which toilet i should be using and what clothes i should be wearing.... i've started to study again but am afraid of being stumbled again in regards to going to the meetings... after a lot of prayer and considering scriptures like -.
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Fernando
Marie, just a quick word on baptism.
It has two components. An inner spiritual reality, and an outward physical SYMBOL of that reality.
When a religionist gets physically baptised it is pointless in the absence of the inner spiritual reality.
A spiritual person of faith gets baptised spiritually when they grasp the full unabridged "good news" ABOUT JESUS.
Going under the water is a SYMBOL of the spiritual conviction a believer receives from the holy spirit by faith, that s/he has died with Jesus (his/her sins past, present and future have been legally IMPUTED to Jesus and consequently paid for in full, as a priceless but free gift that cannot be earned, deserved or paid for).
Coming up from under the water is a SYMBOL of the spiritual conviction a believer receives from the holy spirit by faith, that s/he has been resurrected with Jesus (Jesus' earned and proven righteousness, holiness/cleanness, sinlessness and sonship has been legally IMPUTED to him/her, as a priceless but free gift that cannot be earned, deserved or paid for).
One can read about this (admittedly deep topic) in Romans 6:2-11. Reading from few different Bible translations and commentaries at www.bible.cc and www.biblegateway.com can help clarify. Patience too is helpful, as one prays and waits for revelation, clarity and confirmation from the holy spirit.
God makes no distinction based on the level and type of dysfunction or aberrance in a particular person since he has paid for it in full via Jesus' death and ransom. He does however make only one distinction - the response of our spiritual heart toward these truths. Religionists (goats, weeds, wicked, evil) reject these truths and this priceless "good news" by means of their supremacist efforts at self-righteousness (by vainly trying to follow the supposedly and ever changing "right" rules, morals, doctrines, and knowledge). This is largely what Jesus condemns in Matthew 23.
This article on “legalism” (efforts at self-righteousness by means of following the “right” rules) is a real eye-opener: g79 6/8 pp. 27-28.
How about reading this scripture again:
"For ALL [are dysfunctional or aberrant] and fall short of the glory of God, and it is as a FREE GIFT that they are being declared righteous by [IMPUTATION and by] his undeserved kindness [or UNMERITED FAVOUR] through the release by the RANSOM [paid] by Christ Jesus (paraphrase of Romans 3:23-24).
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28
Being Transgendered
by mariemcg inhi my name is marie.
i was brought up in the truth from birth being born xy.
i went through torture as a child being born this way and apearing female in every way, even wearing boy clothes.. at the age of 15 years old decided that going through the amendment of my gender identity was a must and sought medical adv at the earliest oppertunity... this lead to me being thrown out of my home at the tender age of 15.... as time past they accepted me as their daughter a few months later.. thanks to jehovah as i was getting involved in a lot of bad things to keep a roof over my head.. at the age of 20 they paid for my surgery for which i've never looked back from and feel so much more comfortable with my body and myself.. i'm quite sure if i'd remained as my birth sex that i would not be here now writing this.. i started going back to the meetings shortly after having surgery and was met with some love and predjudice to the extent of which toilet i should be using and what clothes i should be wearing.... i've started to study again but am afraid of being stumbled again in regards to going to the meetings... after a lot of prayer and considering scriptures like -.
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Fernando
Welcome Marie. Hugs and love.
Praise Jah that keeping your faith is important to you.
Did you know that in the Watchtower library Jesus is described as our "older brother"? I have grown much closer to him through a careful study of the "good news" about him. He is the most inclusive, open-minded, liberal and healing person and Psychologist you will ever meet. He has ALL the answers to even the most complex problems. No judgment, criticism, ignorance, prejudice or harsh words...
Jesus is also much more than MY/OUR "older brother". He is also MY/OUR Lord, Saviour, Deliverer/Liberator, Atoner/Reconciler, Restorer, Healer and more. He is the same for any believer that CONFESSES a RELATIONSHIP with him (Matt 10:32; 1 Cor 12:3). How many religionists use David and Paul's words in reference to Jesus: "MY Lord" or "OUR Lord"???!!!
Humans on the other hand are most often very unlike Jesus and can and will disappoint. Religionists are the very worst. Their job is to steal, kill and destroy our faith and salvation - something they do very well.
Just ask any religionist to explain the "good news according to Paul" to you... blank...
Now when you consider that more than half the Bible's ±152 references to the "good news" or MESSAGE ABOUT JESUS are by Paul you get the picture...
Faith emanates from God. Belief emanates from man. Religionists are lying when they say they are the same - to hide the fact that they have stolen our faith!
Faith, being a wide opening of our spiritual eyes, gives us a lot of clarity, power, strength and insight. We can see, grasp and understand very puzzling problems that totally befuddle physical, carnal, temporal religionists.
Greetings and blessings on your journey
Love
Fernando
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Give us your vote on the Watch Tower's approach to domestic abuse!!
by cedars inas you may be aware, the feb 15th watchtower features an experience depicting a 'fairytale' scenario of a violent husband beating his wife, and then mending his ways once she starts to apply bible principles.
to my knowledge, this is the nineteenth experience of its kind to be published since 1958, and it betrays a disturbing track record of negligence on the part of the watch tower society in failing to properly and consistently deal with such a sensitive and life-or-death issue, which effects untold thousands of women.. the experience, page 29, paragraph 12, reads as follows:.
selma recalls a lesson she learned from the witness who studied with her.
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Fernando
Spiritually blind people can sometimes be right, but as Jesus pointed out ultimately they and their followers will end up in a pit.
The WBT$ has certainly generated an embarrassing litany or "morass, of inconsistencies" in their dogmatic, supremacist and self-righteous advice and rules.
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TRY AGAIN - QUESTION: HOW HAVE FRANZ'S BOOKS HELPED YOU?
by binadub inapologies all.
my questions did not appear in the body of the first post and i didn't know the reason.
thanks leavingwt for informing me that another drawback of the new internet explorer is that it is not compatible with jwd.
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Fernando
1) How have Franz's books influenced (or not) you? Also Carl Olof Jonsson's and Jim Penton's?
Not influenced by Franz's books, but well written and sound scriptural reasoning. Had come to similar conclusions "independently". Benefited from Watchtower article condemning "legalism" which was probably written by Franz (g79 6/8 pp. 27-28 Why the Emphasis on Christian Freedom?). Not read other named books.
2) Do you understand Jonsson's chronology arguments and their effect on the parousia doctrine?
No. WBT$ surreptitiously hates the unabridged "good news" (according to Paul, Moses, Isaiah, Psalms and others) and that's quite big enough for me.
3) Would you like an alternative religion to the Watchtower organization? If so, what do you think it should offer?
No. All religion is a snare and a racket exactly as rogue Judge JF Rutherford described. The full unabridged "good news" is God's full, final and ultimate answer for all dysfunction in particular religion. Society and freedom/liberty advanced dramatically in 1517 when religion lost a lot of its power. When religion finally loses all its power and is supplanted by the unabridged "good news" instead society will move to the next level of progress.
4) Are you familiar with Channel C.
No, but had a quick look. The user interface is not nearly as friendly and accessible as this site. A lot of good info probably buried and seldom read.
5) What do you think is the most influencial medium for JWs leaving the religion? Forums like this? Books? Other exJWs?
For those with high levels of addiction (to this religion), misplaced loyalty, and "Spiritual Stockholm Syndrome" as in my case, only the unabridged "good news" is powerful enough to lead to a spiritual awakening and freedom.
6) Do you know who the current WT leaders are?
No. But carbon copies of Pharisees and Sanhedrin - by their fruits and followers. Supremacist, self-righteous, vindictive and venomous. Spiritually naked, blind, confused, inebriated and insane with voracious appetites for spiritual unfaithfulness, fornication, adultery (aka apostasy or heresy) - scandalous, non-stop and brazen naked intimacy with demons and the "god of religion" (Satan).
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July 15th WT- Don't Research " False Stories " - Inspired by Satan !
by flipper ini know the poster lost generation made a fantastic thread on this july 15th apostate article, however - i noticed some very powerful points on pg.
17 paragraphs 9 - 11 which weren't brought out that i feel needed to be touched on.
as was brought out in his thread this article told jw's to avoid apostates because they are " mentally diseased " allegedly and to avoid their web sites, not read their literature, watch t.v.
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Fernando
Hey flipper!
Our experience proved that the Watchtower Pharisees and Sanhedrin do not even want "their" followers researching in the Watchtower library!
Did you know that more than half the Bible's ±152 references to the "good news" are by Paul? Yet it is near impossible to find a "publishers of the good news" that knows anything about the "good news according to Paul" - let alone studying and teaching it!
The reason why?
The "good news" MESSAGE is deliberately anti-religion and is specifically designed to set us (mentally and spiritually) free from captivity to religion/ists!
"The spirit of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah is upon me [Jesus], for the reason that Jehovah has anointed me [Jesus] to tell [the] good news to the meek ones [sheep or wheat]. He has sent me [Jesus] to bind up the brokenhearted [spiritually deprived and unregenerated], to proclaim [spiritual] liberty to those taken [spiritually] captive [by religion/ists] and the wide opening [of the spiritual eyes] even to the [spiritual] prisoners [of religion/ists]" (paraphrase of Isaiah 61:1).
It is not possible to keep pursuing a sincere and honesthearted study of the "good news" and remain captive to the Watchtower - even if one uses only the Watchtower library. Yes, the full unabridged "good news" is in the Watchtower library (although fragmented), but not in the hearts and not on the lips of Watchtower followers. It is antithetical (directly opposite) to their supremacist and self-righteous teachings and practices. One cannot serve two masters...Greetings
Fernando
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What a dumb thing to have done!
by Fernando inat times i want to kick myself for mindlessly letting the "god of religion" teach me about the "god of abraham" for more than 40 years.
what was i thinking?.
then again i was a third generation born-in who simply and naively believed the "reality" i was presented with, whilst unknowingly being held captive by spiritually blind, confused, inebriated and insane watchtower religionists in a mental prison with invisible bars..
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Fernando
Hey wobble!
I have come to intimately KNOW and understand the "god of religion" (Satan the great impostor) by analysing his mean-spirited and effectively supremacist MESSAGE of self-righteousness attained by means of following the supposedly "right" rules (legalism), morals (moralism), doctrines (ethnocentrism) and knowledge (Gnosticism). His followers and family become hypocritical, judgmental, critical and condemnatory of those who do not "measure up", whereas none of us can measure up to a perfect standard.
I have come to intimately KNOW and understand the "god of Abraham" (our heavenly father and his son, my older brother) by analysing their generous and effectively liberating MESSAGE of IMPUTED righteousness, cleanness and sinlessness granted as a free gift which cannot be earned, deserved or paid for. Their followers and family become more generous/liberal towards, and accepting of, all who do not "measure up", since none of us can measure up to a perfect standard.
For me it has been a journey of increasing contrasts between the baby and the bathwater (or the honey and the arsenic):
- faith versus religion
- spirituality versus religiosity
- truth versus religion
- the "good news" versus religion (the "bad news")
- disciples versus religionists
- Rom 3 and 4 versus Matt 23
- IMPUTED righteousness versus DEMANDED righteousness
- inner transformation versus outward window dressing
- worthiness versus unworthinessIt is no accident that no Watchtower religionist (so called "publisher of the good news") has any idea what the "good news" according to Paul is about. Bear in mind that more than half the Bible's 152-odd references to the "good news" are by Paul!
Thank you for listening to my story.
Greetings and best wishes
Fernando
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What a dumb thing to have done!
by Fernando inat times i want to kick myself for mindlessly letting the "god of religion" teach me about the "god of abraham" for more than 40 years.
what was i thinking?.
then again i was a third generation born-in who simply and naively believed the "reality" i was presented with, whilst unknowingly being held captive by spiritually blind, confused, inebriated and insane watchtower religionists in a mental prison with invisible bars..
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Fernando
At times I want to kick myself for mindlessly letting the "god of religion" teach me about the "god of Abraham" for more than 40 years. What was I thinking?
Then again I was a third generation born-in who simply and naively believed the "reality" I was presented with, whilst unknowingly being held captive by spiritually blind, confused, inebriated and insane Watchtower religionists in a mental prison with invisible bars.