Posts by garyneal

78

HOW TO IDENTIFY THE TRUE RELIGION

by Fifth Column in

jesus said that the true religion would be evident in the lives of the people who practice it.

by their fruits you will recognize them, he said.

every good tree produces fine fruit.

garyneal

Each of us does well to ask himself, ‘Am I worshiping God in the way he has set out in the Bible?’ If we make sure, day by day, that the answer is yes, then we are on the right path.

No problem here, I asked that very question about five years ago when I was seriously considering becoming a Jehovah's Witness after studying with them for six years. But I did a little research of my own and found the following:

Baptism to an organization with their two baptism questions that they ask all baptism candidates (after 1985). Compare Matthew 28:19.
Jesus is not your mediator if you belong to the great crowd of other sheep without the heavenly hope. Compare 1 Timothy 2:5 with what the WT says in their publication "Worldwide Security under the Prince of Peace" page 10.
According to the Watchtower's interpretation of the Greek scriptures, Jesus is A god in John 1:1 but THE God in John 20:28. Which one is He?
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/joh1.pdf
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/joh20.pdf

See my blog at http://garyneal.wordpress.com/2013/09/03/why-am-i-not-a-jehovahs-witness/ for a more detailed discourse on how I almost became a JW only to later reject the faith when I did a little research. The false dates alone, not to mention the fact that they once preached 1874 being the time of Christ's invisible return along with their 1919 teaching, should be enough for anyone to reject this religion as being the place to 'worship God the way He has set out in the Bible.'

16

was noah under the law of moses? huh?

by sowhatnow in

im confused, a poster for the whole mamoth elephants and ark deal going on, with a gizillion pages, .

quoted genesis ch 7 about him bringing 7 clean animals.

and only two unclean, well i thought it wasnt till moses came along that all these requirements were done, so noah was under the law too?.

garyneal

Your questions do raise some interesting points, sowhatnow. How could Noah know the laws concerning unclean animals if that wasn't available until Moses.

Perhaps you heard of the Noahide laws that the Jews declare are binding to the people of the nations (Gentiles). It won't answer your specific questions though.

28

is it possible to raise good kids with out religious morals?

by Princess Ashe in

making up my mind on how to teach my son values in life seems to be an on going struggle of what is right and wrong.

being raised in a sheltered jw life until after leaving high school seems like going from one extreme to another of being over restrictive or under.

trying to find that balance.

garyneal

Don't JWs and other Christians ever wonder how the heathen nations worked out that murder, stealing, lying, adultery, assault and envy are wrong, thousands of years before Moses climbed Mt Sinai?

Not my JW wife, she points out the passage in Acts where it says that the people of the nations are a law onto themselves and have the law written in their hearts.

28

Waking up your spouse

by All for show in

jw
friends

i am aware this has to be done quite carefully, but how?

while many may complain and see the hypocrisy within the kh's, maybe even with the gb, how does one bring up doctrine issues?

i surely can not tell my husband to "go look what jwfacts.com says".

garyneal

I have failed miserably at this myself so I cannot offer any advice on what to do. Maybe more what NOT to do.

I tried to reason with her on the doctrinal stuff such as baptism to the organization through their two baptismal questions, Jesus not being the direct mediator for the earthly sheep (only the 144,000). How the WT got it wrong on the 607 BCE date, the pyramids and how Pastor Russell was originally preaching 1874 as the year of Christ's invisible return. I told her about the Candice Conti case involving sexual abuse of children and how they covered it up. I've even recently pointed out the WT UN scandal when a CO was giving a talk linking the wild beast with the UN. She does what she wants, ignoring WT rules when it suits her, following WT rules when it suits her.

She only clings to the religion because she has family in it and believes it was instrumental in helping her live a clean life during her formative years. She does not realize that the same thing has been said by others of other religions but stubbornly clings to the idea that churches allow unmarried people to live together or are all about tithing. She has a VERY superficial WT view of other Christians that can easily be demolished if she ever listened to the stories of former devout/fundamentalist individuals and how they actually lived. Not to mention the fact that the WT has its own sins (as I stated in the prior paragraph) which effectively negates them from being any more moral than any other Christian church.

Bottom line, facts are powerless to the faithful.

43

Do the Governing Body believe their own teachings or know it's a lie? Are they atheists?

by BucketShopBill in

the new young blood gb member, you think he really thinks this is the truth or is he protecting his financial interest like all the older gb members who enjoy basking in glory of men?

do you think they believe in the "over-lapping generation" or was that a mistake done by barr?.

how much of the watchtower and the bible do the governing body know, ray franz jr. said he was not impressed with their bible knowledge and their lack of knowledge of the watchtower cannon.

garyneal

You can come to believe the craziest things in the world if you surround yourself solely with individuals who are never allowed to disagree with you.

like the emporer who had no clothes on

Ha, you beat me to it hoser.

43

Do the Governing Body believe their own teachings or know it's a lie? Are they atheists?

by BucketShopBill in

the new young blood gb member, you think he really thinks this is the truth or is he protecting his financial interest like all the older gb members who enjoy basking in glory of men?

do you think they believe in the "over-lapping generation" or was that a mistake done by barr?.

how much of the watchtower and the bible do the governing body know, ray franz jr. said he was not impressed with their bible knowledge and their lack of knowledge of the watchtower cannon.

garyneal

What kind of teacher is Jesus when his words and ideas can be taken in so many ways. Why would he do that when, supposedly, everything is riding on "doing it right".

That is an excellent question. I would be interested in the answer to that one myself.

43

Do the Governing Body believe their own teachings or know it's a lie? Are they atheists?

by BucketShopBill in

the new young blood gb member, you think he really thinks this is the truth or is he protecting his financial interest like all the older gb members who enjoy basking in glory of men?

do you think they believe in the "over-lapping generation" or was that a mistake done by barr?.

how much of the watchtower and the bible do the governing body know, ray franz jr. said he was not impressed with their bible knowledge and their lack of knowledge of the watchtower cannon.

garyneal

Knowing it's b.s. and arriving at not believing in God would be a huge jump. It is possible that I have overstated above- perhaps their reeducation convinces some that Jehovah is using the other 11 guys (or whatever number they are/were on) and that the single member doesn't quite feel the Holy Spirit the way the others say they do, but is still afraid to say so. In that case, the same result- he stays quiet and casts his votes and shares his opinions based on what seems best for the salvation of the organization.

Gee, for a second there I could not tell if I was reading an opinion of the GB or the Emporer's New Clothes fairy tale! To paraphrase, it sounds like no one wants to say that the emporer has no clothes Watchtower Society is not spirit directed.

I would imagine there are some among the GB that long for the old days of warm fuzzy ignorance to the reality of running a major corporation.

In other words, they've seen the man behind the curtain and pine for the days when the wizard is a wizard who will serve Jehovah is guiding the faithful slave.

To give my two cents, I suppose that if they still believe then they believe that God is helping them make their decisions. Much like leaders of a church or a small Christian group at a college (like I was a part of) they probably think that if they 'prayerfully' consider their choices (and I bet they do pray before their meeting starts) then Jehovah will work it out. Even when things mess up they probably believe that Jehovah will work it out somehow. Confirmation bias I'm sure but no different than leaders of other churches. Of course, there maybe those who secretly do not believe in either the doctrines or the Bible but they may just be going through the motions or even hoping God will reveal all things in due time though there may be some 'atheist in the pulpit' also or even some charlatans.

18

Will the kingdom hall of jehovahs witnesses signs eventually come down?

by hoser in

jw
friends

it is clear that the leaders of the jehovahs witness religion are rebranding.

so as a strategy they could have both the jw.org signs and kingdom hall signs running at the same time and then in a few years instruct congregations to remove the kingdom hall signs.

this happens all the time with commercial products when there are mergers and company takeovers.. .

garyneal

"Kingdom Hall" for a place of worship now sounds both antiquated and weird. I am sure it will fall by the wayside, to be replaced with what "cool" new name I know not, do they even need a name for it ?

Um, church?

4

JW wife likes watching the 700 club

by goingthruthemotions in

jw
friends

i have noticed lately that my wife has been watching the 700 club..i asked her if she liked it?

she said yes because it is positive.. i then agreed with her and left it there.

(note: i never hear anything positive at the meetings).

garyneal

That is interesting, I wonder what she thinks about them being part of the 'churches of Christendom?'

48

A few questions for believers

by keyser soze in

jw
friends

when confronted with all of the inconsistencies and atrocities of the bible, many believers invariably claim that they don't base their faith in christ on what's written in the bible.

so what is the basis then, if not scripture?.

and please don't tell me "the lord has revealed himself to me".

garyneal

So jgnat, do you think Jesus' teachings would have been preserved orally in the absence of scripture? I'll be honest, I think without the Bible the Jesus story might have been no more than a historical footnote. Could you honestly say you'd still be a Christian if you'd never encountered a Bible?

I don't think it was so much for the Bible that kept the Jesus story alive throughout the centuries but more of the history of the Christian church. If it had not been for Rome converting to Christianity and establishing the Roman Catholic church much of what we know and have today would not exist and the world would be much different.