Posts by garyneal

79

A brother at my wife's congregation wants to study the Bible Teach book...

by garyneal in

jw
friends

... he apparently has wanted to do so for a while now.

i agreed to meet with him this tuesday night at 6:00 p.m. edt.

he asked me to pick the chapter where i wanted to start.. hmmmmm... where shall i start?

garyneal

No next chapter with Hero. He cannot answer my question so he stopped coming by.

46

You should meet Brother Smart Engineer

by garyneal in

jw
friends

my wife, who now thinks i am not competent enough to discuss spiritual matters with the kids, thinks that i could really benefit from discussing matters of the bible with this nasa engineer who attends meetings at her kingdom hall.

apparently, he is quite knowledgeable in the bible and has a good grasp of their doctrines.

at least according to her as i never actually spoken with the man at length but i do know that he is an elder.

garyneal

Does your wife remember than in the 1st century the apostles were not seen as great scholars or full of knowledge of the world. Unlettered and ordinary... Jesus talked to the common people but the religious leaders listened too but did not get the sense of it.

Yeah, it is funny how Brother Smart Engineer's intelligence is honored because he agrees with the WT but as for me, well I am one of those intellectuals with whom the word of God was hidden from.

Are you in the Houston area?

Nope, Hampton Roads.

In short, I think if you look deep enough into the engineer, you'll find that he had issues before joining the cult. He probably still does have these issues.

Yeah, either that or his whole social system is in it and he is afraid to look too deep into his beliefs. A lot of smart people are like that.

A discussion of actual JW history would be nice to read about. Does Brother Engineer know that the nu-light on the "Superior Authorities" was originally correct and then changed by Rutherfraud, but the changed back to the correct understanding?? Does Brother Engineer know that the WTBTS has NOT consistently taught 1914 as the beginning of last days??

HA HA, I doubt it but you never know. I just know that Brother Hero (a pioneer brother who failed to explain the blood doctrine contradictions) didn't.

Einstein was obviously brilliant in at least one way, but if he had become a JW, would he have automatically been more qualified than other men in his cong to teach the Bible and JW doctrine?

Albert Einstein — 'Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.'

I know a NASA jw dude too-- he was once a MS.Anyways, he quit that position, they're rich and travel everywhere, do everything, and get drunk with other jw friends. It's WHATEVER. He and his family are social jws. I'd rather make friends with genuine ppl.

This describes this dude too as far as I can tell. I don't know about his drinking but I know he is rich and travels. I guess someone like him would be my wife's wet dream.

46

You should meet Brother Smart Engineer

by garyneal in

jw
friends

my wife, who now thinks i am not competent enough to discuss spiritual matters with the kids, thinks that i could really benefit from discussing matters of the bible with this nasa engineer who attends meetings at her kingdom hall.

apparently, he is quite knowledgeable in the bible and has a good grasp of their doctrines.

at least according to her as i never actually spoken with the man at length but i do know that he is an elder.

garyneal

Ask your wife if she believes talking to a Muslim engineer would convince you to convert to Islam. We find highly educated people in all religions, but sadly very few among JW...so few that they make a big deal when one comverts and supports their simplistic beliefs.

I thought of this myself. How many smart mormons are there? If one of them spoke with her, would she change her beliefs? No? Then...

Obviously professional training or a degree doesn't automatically infer that a person has knowledge in all areas.

When I was in the university, a philosophy professor (who also teaches religious studies) spoke about a man who appeared on the 700 club who said he knew the location of Heaven. This got him curious so he watched and as the individual tried to say that Heaven was behind the black holes in space. He gave no explanation regarding how he came to that conclusion except for some vague and vacuous statements that your typical believer makes and when it came out that he was an electrical engineer the professor turned it off saying, "What does an Electrical Engineer know about things like this?"

As an Electrical Engineer myself I was a bit offended by the professor's comments but I understand what he means now. Really, what do I know about the Bible and religion? VERY LITTLE and even less so at the time. The more I learn, the more I realize what I don't know far exceeds what I do know.

rjharris: Um, keep up the preaching work.

46

You should meet Brother Smart Engineer

by garyneal in

jw
friends

my wife, who now thinks i am not competent enough to discuss spiritual matters with the kids, thinks that i could really benefit from discussing matters of the bible with this nasa engineer who attends meetings at her kingdom hall.

apparently, he is quite knowledgeable in the bible and has a good grasp of their doctrines.

at least according to her as i never actually spoken with the man at length but i do know that he is an elder.

garyneal

Okay, excellent comments from everyone. I'll try to sum up the comments here as there is so much to respond to but I must start with a little bit about myself as it seems I keep forgetting that some people leave and new ones come on to this board.

I don't consider myself a Bible scholar by any stretch, I am nowhere near what Laia or Narkesos are in terms of their biblical and historical understanding but I have been learning as much as I can whereever I can. That said, there was a time when I was really religious. In fact, if you look at my original postings on here you will see that I was very religious. I was an engineering student in a university back in the 1990s and I was very involved in religion back then. Like most 'smart' believers, I could easily make evidence fit my conclusions regarding God and His place in the universe. However, I found that a) a lot of my justifications for my beliefs had little basis in the Bible, b) I REALLY did not know the Bible, and c) for a long time I would not allow myself to be challenged in my thinking. Once I began really looking for evidence the scales began to fall.

My wife says that I am 'such a smart man to not understand things' which drives home the point that was made in this thread in that Jehovah's Witnesses tend to think of all outsiders as mislead or deluded and therefore not worth listening to. If I had done that, I would've been a much 'stronger Christian' and a seriously deluded individual. I am thankful for my doubts and my uncertainty now but it was a hard path to take as so much of my beliefs were at stake. I can understand and appreciate why others, like my wife, would not want to follow that path.

To answer a hair splitting question that was posed, engineers are not scientist in very strict sense. It is easy to see why an engineer can see the complexity of things in the world. I even remember making the point to my physics instructor that the second law of thermodynamics contradicts the evolution theory. Of course, I forgot that little thing known as the SUN that without it, life on Earth would not exist.

Now, regarding Bro Smart Engineer, I really don't know my wife's motives but she tells me quite frequently that he sounds a lot like me when he discusses Bible things. So I am guessing that she thinks he could maybe convince me or at least make me think on some things that she cannot answer. However, I think she is trying to set us both up and I do not want him to feel obligated to speak with me in anyway. Besides, if he was really that interested, I think he would've already done so. Some other things I know that may affect his thinking is that the elders at her hall know I associate with apostates (by posting here). Also, a pioneer brother attempted to have a Bible study with me sometime ago, not to mention the six years I spent studying with them from 2003 to 2009. So I can imagine that if this guy is an elder and is aware of all of this, he very likely wishes to keep his distance.

26

Father denies children inheritance unless they quit Jehovah's Witnesses

by Tiktaalik in

jw
friends

an article in the sydney morning herald:.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/father-denies-children-inheritance-unless-they-quit-jehovahs-witnesses-and-become-catholics-20140810-102egl.html#ixzz39yziuuvf.

"from beyond the grave, father-of-four patrick carroll continued a five-decade crusade to steer his children away from being active jehovah's witnesses and into catholicism.. mr carroll wrote into his will that his adult children were not to receive any inheritance unless they met two conditions: attend his funeral and become catholics within three months of his death.. mr carroll died in april 2012. his children attended the funeral but they did not become catholics and challenged the condition in the nsw supreme court in a bid to still receive their share of his estate.. but justice francois kunc last week ruled that mr carroll was entitled to place such conditions on his will.. the court heard that mr carroll's motivation was not so much about imposing his own beliefs but rather the fact he never approved of his children becoming jehovah's witness.. the court heard that mr carroll did not raise his children as catholics, neither he or they had attended church services when they were young and he did not enroll them in catholic schools.. but when he split from their mother lillian in 1959 she became a jehovah's witness and over the next decade the couple's four children, robyn, paulene, anthony and susan, were baptised as jehovah's witnesses.. mr carroll never approved of "their adherence to that faith", the court heard.. "[lillian's] conversion to that faith enraged mr carroll, who for the rest of his life continued to express his very strong objections to lillian's and the children's member of that faith," justice kunc said in his judgement.. the court was told that all four of his children remain active members of their congregation.. in his will, written in december 2011, four months before he died, mr carroll left more than a third of his estate to his four children "dependent upon them becoming baptised into the catholic church within a period of three months from the date of my death and such gifts are also subject to and dependent my children attending my funeral.".

garyneal

Well as others said, this feeds the persecution complex and makes them rockstars at the conventions.

46

You should meet Brother Smart Engineer

by garyneal in

jw
friends

my wife, who now thinks i am not competent enough to discuss spiritual matters with the kids, thinks that i could really benefit from discussing matters of the bible with this nasa engineer who attends meetings at her kingdom hall.

apparently, he is quite knowledgeable in the bible and has a good grasp of their doctrines.

at least according to her as i never actually spoken with the man at length but i do know that he is an elder.

garyneal

Well, I am not pulling in either direction. He is a witness and evidentally a faithful one unless he secretly does not believe in the religion but is putting on a facade. I understand a good number of NASA engineers attend services at the Universalist Unitarian church in our city.

46

You should meet Brother Smart Engineer

by garyneal in

jw
friends

my wife, who now thinks i am not competent enough to discuss spiritual matters with the kids, thinks that i could really benefit from discussing matters of the bible with this nasa engineer who attends meetings at her kingdom hall.

apparently, he is quite knowledgeable in the bible and has a good grasp of their doctrines.

at least according to her as i never actually spoken with the man at length but i do know that he is an elder.

garyneal

My wife, who now thinks I am not competent enough to discuss spiritual matters with the kids, thinks that I could really benefit from discussing matters of the Bible with this NASA engineer who attends meetings at her kingdom hall. Apparently, he is quite knowledgeable in the Bible and has a good grasp of their doctrines. At least according to her as I never actually spoken with the man at length but I do know that he is an elder. She told me a few days ago that while she was out in field service she asked him if he were willing to come to our house and speak with me and asked if I was okay with it.

My response, (paraphrasing) “If he is willing to come over and have a friendly discussion about whatever subjects we may have of mutual interest, sure. If he is willing to even have an open discussion about the Bible, sharing what we know, sure. If he is coming to try to teach, preach, or proselytize I’d rather not.” As we all know, Jehovah’s Witnesses are not good at listening and when in a discussion about religion they tend to look for ways to respond to your statements rather than listening to them. This is a flaw that I too am trying to correct in myself and I am evidently making progress since even my wife has stated that I tend to listen more and be more ‘open minded’ (her words) than I used to.

Personally, though, I can’t help but think that this brother is probably not really interested in speaking with me and may even feel a little obligated since the only reason he is even considering it is because my wife is asking it of him. I don’t know if she feels that there is some glimmer of hope that I might come around or if she just feels that Brother Smart Engineer would be a more suitable person to share the things I am learning about the Bible with. Somehow, I doubt he knows anything about the Bible beyond what the Watchtower publications tell him. Things such as no original copies of the writings, differences in biblical canons between various religions, the anonymous authorship of the gospels, or even the approximate years in which the various books are written are probably unknown to him as they are to most Christians.

I just told my wife that while I appreciate the gesture I can’t help but question the motivation of this visit and helped her to relate by asking how she would’ve felt if during the time I was attending church I invited someone from the church that she barely knows to come to our house to speak with her. I think she got the message and told me that she understood but I made it clear that if he still wanted to come over to get to know me, he was welcomed. I also suggested that we could meet in a more neutral location if it would help. She also suggested that she would’ve like to eventually be able to host get-togethers at our house for her witness buddies, no doubt in an attempt to be more a part of the group. This, I am sure is also part of the motivation behind her wanting me to meet Brother Smart Engineer.

Has anyone in the group ever had this experience either as the person that your loved one wants to ‘help’ or as the elder, publisher, etc. that was asked upon to meet with such a person like myself? If so, how did you feel about it? If you were the publisher, did you follow through? If so, how did it go? All comments are welcomed.

13

VAT4956 Flip-Flop

by ILoveTTATT in

jw
friends

major flip-flop on vat4956:.

in the 1970's it was demonized:.

*** g72 5/8 p. 28 when did babylon desolate jerusalem?

garyneal

Where's scholar?

11

JW NWT AND OTHER BIBLE TRANSLATIONS ARE FALSE!

by ADJUSTMENTS in

to begin, i'm not trying to stir up any "conspiracy theories" or promote them but with the recent release of the nwt and "world government" convention tracts it's opened up the of door to the so called "conspiracy theories" for many.. so if your the type that's already turned of by the word "conspiracy theory" i suggest you leave this page and please don't comment, for those of us who can use your brain to reason and think, take a look at a couple videos and sites that makes you go hmm... and connect the dots.. the first video actually goes into depth and mentions the many falsehoods of the jw nwt at 13:50 and 1:04:25. for some reason it is not directly linking it is entitled new world order bible versions (full version ) about nine videos down.. .

https://m.youtube.com/results?q=new+world+order&sm=1.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r8c1sc8lljm.

garyneal

Adjustments, are you an Independent (Fundamental) Baptist?

83

Do You Support Illegal Aliens Coming Into The USA As They Have This Past Year?

by minimus in

i think it's hurting the country..

garyneal

A few solutions:

Help the Mexican government stabilize their society. It may require sending troops to help deal with the cartels. We did it for Iraq, why not Mexico.

Help rebuild their country and infrastructure. We did it before in other nations.

People who think the children should stay should put them up in their own homes.

If immigrants take jobs no one else wants to do, then why do we have jobs no one wants to do. I can think of of able bodied welfare and food stamp recipients that should be given those jobs. You want your benefits, do these jobs. Maybe that will motivate them to find better work but at the very least we will have a source of labor for these so called jobs that no one wants to do.

You could also take a stict libertarian approach and get the government out of everything. Leave it to the states to police their borders since the kids will be going to the schools at the states' expense, for example.