Posts by sd-7

25

The Story of SD-7 - Chapter 2

by sd-7 in

jw
friends

given that i'm very sensitive emotionally, i tend to avoid mentioning my personal life here if possible, preferring to stick to evaluation of watchtower publications and doctrine, particularly the newest material i can get my hands on.

but i felt it was time to talk again.

i hope at least some of you will be gentle.. i'm married now.

sd-7

Let's address these posts one at a time.

BluesBrother--cool shades. I may not have spelled it out here, but I did inform her of my research and my belief that this religion uses mind control. Her defense was that everybody uses it--the media, etc., etc. Rather than making this belief the difference between losing her (again, after 5 long years of aching and waiting to get her back and going through emotional torture), and keeping her, I chose to subdue my personal beliefs on the matter. The context of this must also be considered--I am only one of 10+ family members involved in the religion, including most of my immediate family. One doesn't lightly walk away from that forever. Those factors weighed heavily on my choice. And yes, all of this is a recipe for disaster. It's a suicide mission. But it's the last mission I have left. So I embrace it. But thanks for your thoughts.

Nugget--I agree. There are huge matters at stake. It won't be easy. But I've got nothing left. I can at least try to give my life to preserving the family I've always wanted, whatever the cost. If I fail, so be it. But freedom, as valuable as it is, is not worth losing her forever. Not to me. That's why I stay and fight. And given the human wreckage this religion has left in its wake, I'd be questioning my conscience if I didn't stay to monitor their activities. And...spies don't have an easy life. See 'Alias: The Complete Series'--the inspiration for my screen name, of course.

Black Sheep--I see your point. I did say I would go out and recruit others, but I didn't say how hard I would try. ;) And not everyone suffers as many here have suffered. Even so, I am aware of the possible moral implications of my choices. But all of this is a huge gray area. None of us is particularly exempt from being victimized in one way or another. It's just a matter of who's victimizing you. Somewhere, wherever you are, is the guy with the biggest metaphorical [or literal] gun who draws the lines for you and takes your lunch money. We work for him no matter how free and autonomous we try to be. That's the nature of this world. The best I can do is suck at recruiting--which I've had no trouble sucking at thus far. I don't want to make any more victims or victims of victims. But I'm not going to destroy my family on account of possible futures. Statistically speaking, the odds of my actions leading to someone becoming a JW are....holy crap...

SD-7

59

The Two Creepy Commandments

by Farkel in

there are a few bible verses i'm going to discuss that probably don't bother anyone but me.

in fact, most people, including ex-dubs think they are wonderful verses.

i think they are really, really creepy verses.

sd-7

Great post, Farkel. I've pondered similar thoughts myself over the years--found it hard to understand the difference between God and the Devil if either one is going to kill me if I don't cooperate. I just wondered if I was just a bystander in their personal warfare. Would kind of suck if that's the only meaning to our lives, you know? I found it to be hollow.

Acolytes--definitely wanted to post on that issue of "you are my friends if you do what I am commanding you". I always found that to be a contradictory statement, as friends do not issue commands to each other. That's clearly a master/slave relationship. I mean, I guess slaves can be your friends, but I would think it gets kind of awkward.

I just figured it boils down to reality: if God exists and rules the universe as Sovereign, then logically he rules by power alone, and not love. You can't love someone who's threatening to kill you if you don't. The only way to make it work is to believe he doesn't really want to kill you. Maybe it's naive, in a way, but that always helps me.

SD-7

4

Proverbs 4:18

by sd-7 in

jw
friends

much has been said about this oft-cited scripture: "the light gets brighter.

" this is, of course, used as justification for the apparently arbitrary changes in doctrine handed down by the governing body.

examining this scripture in its context may help us understand its meaning.. proverbs 4:14-19: "into the path of the wicked ones do not enter, and do not walk straight on into the way of the bad ones.

sd-7

in the first person, acknowledge your imperfections sincerely, and don't demand unquestioning obedience to amoeba-like doctrine. Just say "we were wrong". Not "it was felt that [old light], but now it's [new light]". Just say it. There's nothing wrong with admitting that.

[Silence] Obviously. Chancellor Palpatine said it well. "All who gain power are afraid to lose it."

As I ponder the scriptures anew, I now appreciate that context really opens up their meaning to me in a way that was never possible when I was a believing JW, not part of the "Conscious Class", as I've heard it described. It's a good feeling. Comments are welcome.

SD-7

4

Proverbs 4:18

by sd-7 in

jw
friends

much has been said about this oft-cited scripture: "the light gets brighter.

" this is, of course, used as justification for the apparently arbitrary changes in doctrine handed down by the governing body.

examining this scripture in its context may help us understand its meaning.. proverbs 4:14-19: "into the path of the wicked ones do not enter, and do not walk straight on into the way of the bad ones.

sd-7

Much has been said about this oft-cited scripture: "The light gets brighter." This is, of course, used as justification for the apparently arbitrary changes in doctrine handed down by the Governing Body. Examining this scripture in its context may help us understand its meaning.

Proverbs 4:14-19: "Into the path of the wicked ones do not enter, and do not walk straight on into the way of the bad ones. Shun it, do not pass along by it; turn aside from it, and pass along. For they do not sleep unless they do badness, and their sleep has been snatched away unless they cause someone to stumble. For they have fed themselves with the bread of wickedness, and the wine of acts of violence is what they drink. But the path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established. The way of the wicked ones is like the gloom; they have not known at what they keep stumbling."

Given the context of this verse, is it reasonable to conclude that this justifies an infinite number of reversals of doctrine? Is this talking about one's understanding of the scriptures? Well, what does the context imply?

The context refers to "the path of the wicked ones", detailing their evil ways and deeds. It is hardly likely we would assume that any reference is being made to THEIR understanding of the scriptures, as they obviously don't particularly care about scripture. This is referring to conduct, to one's course of life.

Whereas the wicked dwell in darkness and commit wicked deeds, the righteous live in the light, and as they live according to God's will, their life course gets brighter and brighter. In short, they can see where they're headed in life. Wisdom causes them to ponder the consequences of their actions (which Solomon discusses in great length in Proverbs, especially in chapters 5 and 6), and just like a man walking down the road on a sunny day, the righteous person can see what's ahead, what's in front of him, and he can choose a good path. The wicked just do whatever they feel like doing, without regard for consequences, and just like someone on a dark road, they're bound to trip over something they can't see right in front of them.

This is a contrast of one's path in life. It's that simple.

Obviously, to end the discussion on that note would be too simplistic. As economist John Maynard Keynes once said, "When I realize I am wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" There's no harm in making changes if one realizes one's beliefs are incorrect in light of scripture or in light of clear, verifiable evidence. Being too rigid can lead to stagnation. So that leaves us with a question for the Governing Body:

Do you make adjustments in doctrine based on recognition of error, or would you allow errors to remain in place simply to maintain your authority over men? Worse yet, would you make adjustments for that very purpose--maintaining power?

Does "the light get brighter" when you keep 'adjusting' your beliefs about Bible chronology and the nearness of the end, or are you doing it merely for convenience and to save face? It would be fine if adjustments were 'relatively minor' as the Reasoning book claims, but adjustments that would have been unnecessary had you just read the Bible? Romans 13 isn't that hard to understand. Why did it take decades to figure out what was clearly spelled out in God's Word thousands of years ago?

Millions of innocent lives are involved. I know those 9 men aren't listening, but if they were, I would ask them for one simple favor: freely admit your errors i

5

Matthew 25:31-46

by sd-7 in

jw
friends

verses 31-32: "when the son of man arrives in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne.

and all the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.".

notice how jesus describes it.

sd-7

PSacramento, couldn't have said it better.

SD-7

5

Matthew 25:31-46

by sd-7 in

jw
friends

verses 31-32: "when the son of man arrives in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne.

and all the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.".

notice how jesus describes it.

sd-7

But Jesus didn't qualify his identification of who his brothers were in such a way. He said, "WHOEVER does the will of my Father, the same is my brother." Regardless of what we assume their future hope is, heaven or earth, Jesus makes no statement regarding that issue.

Hence, it is very clear that Jesus, in Matthew 25:31-46, is emphasizing helping our fellow believers in Christ when they are in need--and even helping strangers, who may or may not be believers. We can gather as much from his other statements, especially the Good Samaritan parable. So then, a question inevitably comes to the surface:

Why does the Governing Body take these noble words of Jesus Christ and use them to demand obedience, even suggesting that failure to obey them will result in losing Jesus' friendship?

The implications of such a usage of the scriptures are disturbing. Our capacity to do good as servants of God and followers of Christ is severely limited if we can willfully ignore Jesus' clear words like this. For all the good Witnesses do accomplish in acquainting others with the Bible, this sort of thing negates it. Because it's an example of, for lack of a better thought, being ashamed of Jesus. Ashamed to embrace his compassionate approach to our brothers and sisters, ashamed to simply believe what he says instead of thinking it means something else. And that, to me, is the saddest thing of all. I can't imagine the Lord Jesus feels any differently.

SD-7

5

Matthew 25:31-46

by sd-7 in

jw
friends

verses 31-32: "when the son of man arrives in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne.

and all the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.".

notice how jesus describes it.

sd-7

Verses 31-32: "When the Son of man arrives in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. And all the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats."

Notice how Jesus describes it. He makes clear that HE will do the separating, not the apostles or any human group or organization. Because belonging to a group means little. It would be the equivalent of sheep or goats being branded with a "JW" logo, or a "Catholic" logo, or a "Whatever Church" logo. (The "Whatever Church" would be an interesting one to visit, wouldn't it?) It's irrelevant to the shepherd. Either you are a sheep or you are a goat, regardless of what group you're in.

Jesus provides the measuring stick in verses 34-36: "Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world. For I became hungry and you gave me something to eat; I got thirsty and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger and you received me hospitably; naked, and you clothed me. I fell sick and you looked after me. I was in prison and you came to me.'"

There are a number of interesting points here. The first one that stands out to me proves to sabotage Watchtower reasoning. The Society applies this set of verses to the "other sheep". Problem? Jesus says that these sheep "inherit the kingdom prepared for [them]". The Society claims, repeatedly, that the "other sheep" do not really "inherit" God's Kingdom (any more than they can be 'friends of Christ' or 'sons of God', apparently). Emphasis is given to Jesus himself and to the anointed as "inheriting" the Kingdom. Believing in Jesus means actually accepting his words for what they are, not building doctrine that directly contradicts him and his clear statements of truth.

Second point, Jesus makes clear that helping the hungry/thirsty/sick/strangers/those in need is what merits his approval. Did you see anything in there about 'obedience to the direction of the Governing Body'? I didn't. Maybe I'm not reading the right Bible.

Verses 37-40: "Then the righteous ones will answer him with the words, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and receive you hospitably, or naked, and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to you?' And in reply the king will say to them: 'Truly I say to you, To the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.'"

Did what? Helped in a practical way! Again, is there anything in here that suggests unquestioning obedience to a Governing Body as a prerequisite for salvation? To see that is to read into it something that just isn't there.

But what about the mention of helping 'Jesus' brothers'? Doesn't that prove the GB's assertions on this issue? Well, what does Jesus himself say about who his brothers are?

Matthew 12:48: "As an answer he said to the one telling him: 'Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?' And extending his hand toward his disciples, he said: 'Look! My mother and my brothers! For whoever does the will of my Father who is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.'"

The logical JW refutation is, well, note that he was addressing his disciples, who would become part of the anointed, hence being Jesus' brothers. Great. I hear you. But Jesus didn'

25

The Story of SD-7 - Chapter 2

by sd-7 in

jw
friends

given that i'm very sensitive emotionally, i tend to avoid mentioning my personal life here if possible, preferring to stick to evaluation of watchtower publications and doctrine, particularly the newest material i can get my hands on.

but i felt it was time to talk again.

i hope at least some of you will be gentle.. i'm married now.

sd-7

Thanks, Goldensky. That means a lot.

SD-7

59

QFR..Feb 15 2010. RE Shared Living Accommodation??

by BluesBrother in

if this has been posted, then i missed it... .

.

sd-7

Hmm. That's actually very insightful, Happy Guy. It would've been nice if the 'brothers' had listened to you. That would be in line with the real meaning of Jesus' words in Matthew 25 about looking after 'the least of these my brothers'. I can't imagine you're alone in feeling that way. Very true that often those in need are overlooked when the Society has more than enough resources to truly help them.

SD-7

25

The Story of SD-7 - Chapter 2

by sd-7 in

jw
friends

given that i'm very sensitive emotionally, i tend to avoid mentioning my personal life here if possible, preferring to stick to evaluation of watchtower publications and doctrine, particularly the newest material i can get my hands on.

but i felt it was time to talk again.

i hope at least some of you will be gentle.. i'm married now.

sd-7

Good idea. Hopefully anyone else who prefers to speak in such a manner will follow your example.

SD-7