Posts by simon17

60

New here

by konceptual99 in

jw
friends

i am new here, been lurking for a while but felt compeled to join as i would like to comment on more and more of the topics i come across.

by way of an introduction here is some info about me.. i am an active jw, married with a family, living in the uk.

i serve as a ms and have done for many years.

simon17

If the "truth" is really not the "truth" then what's the point of subjecting myself and my family to the rules and regulations?

You can relax those though. If you're not so strict about it, you and your kids will be fine for a while. If you allow your kids to keep an open mind, they will likely come to the same conclusions you have no come to and end up drifting away on their own.

If I were you, there is no rush. Things are peaceful. However, you should be making a long term plan in the back of your mind. You've questioned enough things, and now by posting will be exposed to so many more things that are questionable at best. Once getting to this point, you're not going to ever go back. So think of where your wife is, how she thinks, and how eventually you were tell her how you feel.

12

And WHAT exactly did they "Witness"? How can JWs serve as "Witnesses"?

by King Solomon in

i'm still trying to wrap my head around what jws think qualifies them to call themselves "witnesses": witnesses to what?.

here's the definition of "witness" (n):.

one who can give a firsthand account of something seen, heard, or experienced: a witness to the accident.b.

simon17

I thought that one was settled in the real-time trial (or experiment), with Job in the role of guinea pig? Maybe a mistrial was declared on a technicality?

Yeah the thing with Job didn't settle a damn thing because after Job proved his loyalty, God realized that he needed two witnesses...

195

Theistic Evolution

by cofty in

thoughtful christians including scientists like francis collins and kenneth miller accept the evidence for evolution unconditionally.

the only thing that distinguishes their understanding of life from the views of dawkins is that they believe god planned and started the process intentionally.. just a word about the subtle but vital distinction between "theistic evolution" and "intelligent design".... over-simplifications alert - intelligent design is creationism in disguise.

it is a modern twist on the "paley's watch" argument.

simon17

Inferiority is an anthropomorphic view of the evolutionary process. There is no reason to suspect that consciousness is anything but an evolutionary cul-de-sac that will never be repeated.

Intelligence is interesting though. Of course you're right that in evolution, nothing is really inferior or superior, but there is something inherently different about evolution producing a species capable of consciously effecting their own evolution. An intelligent being that has mildly mastered genetric need not wait for evolution to make them adapt to change, but can genetically change themselves. That is a different level of product.

12

And WHAT exactly did they "Witness"? How can JWs serve as "Witnesses"?

by King Solomon in

i'm still trying to wrap my head around what jws think qualifies them to call themselves "witnesses": witnesses to what?.

here's the definition of "witness" (n):.

one who can give a firsthand account of something seen, heard, or experienced: a witness to the accident.b.

simon17

One who furnishes evidence.

Evidence in answer to Satan's challenge that, presented with temptations, people will turn their back on Jehovah.

I think the name makes sense in that sense.

Of course, the actual mess of the court case, like you said, is absolute nonsense. He condemns one party to death before the trial starts and then tampers with the evidence throughout, ensuring that enough evidence is mounted against Satan.

56

The best tactic Anonymous could use against the Society is to make them look noble and humble

by JonathanH in

i was thinking about what would be the most damaging thing anonymous could do on an organizational level by hacking the society.

one poster suggested that they should send out e-mails to all the elders in their elder database pretending to be the society.

but rather than sending out anything wierd and defaming, they should go the opposite route and do what the society would never do but should.

simon17

I really like the first paragraph, and then, I agree with WMF that it is too hasty in a sense. The key in this letter would be the subtlety. It has to be plausible. In no way would WTBS just, in three sentences, stop disfellowshipping, reverse policies on child abuse reporting, eliminate the two witness rule, change the standing on blood transfusions, etc. Anyone elder reading that will probably just immediately go on the defensive mentally.

See what I like about your first paragraph is it is warm in tone. Its kind of like what the society would say, but just in a different way then they would actually ever say it. Its that subtle difference that is going to be mildly refreshing without arousing suspicion.

When battling the mind you have to go very slow and subtle. If you go to fast at any moment, people will recoil and harden their stance. The key is getting people to move mentally incrementally in the way you want them to go.

195

Theistic Evolution

by cofty in

thoughtful christians including scientists like francis collins and kenneth miller accept the evidence for evolution unconditionally.

the only thing that distinguishes their understanding of life from the views of dawkins is that they believe god planned and started the process intentionally.. just a word about the subtle but vital distinction between "theistic evolution" and "intelligent design".... over-simplifications alert - intelligent design is creationism in disguise.

it is a modern twist on the "paley's watch" argument.

simon17

Jumping to philosophical conclusions, when science has not yet discovered the answers, is lazy!

I don't know if I agree with this. There is an open question, not answerd by science, so what is wrong with a person filling that void with God if they are willing to alter their beliefs in the face of new evidence? It is a valid hypothesis, even if less likely than a forthcoming scientific answer.

I don't see how it could be lazy, unless the person actually IS a scientist in that field. Its not like a person's believing in a scientific answer is going to HELP science in some way get that answer faster. We, who believe in a scientific answer, are doing no more or less for reaching that scientific answer than the person who believes in a thiestic answer.

188

About Anonymous they are working on things as we speak!

by life is to short in

soldier 77 just posted this about two hours ago but i think his post got lost is the great debate and straw mans that another posters was throwing around.. anyway i hope soldier 77 does not mind if i make a thread from his insight.

soldier 77 "this seems to have missed in the tangent argument going on: http://pastebin.com/3nitctlf.

anonymous are needing some more people on the inside to help.

simon17

Anyone can be part of Anonymous if they so choose, correct? If so it seems the main Annonymous thrust is against online pedophilia and child porn websites, of which they have already disrupted many.

it seems like perhaps a a few people have used this campaign to make it seem like JWs are in among the main Anonymous agenda, so that, in reality, JWs are not going to be effected by this much at all?

195

Theistic Evolution

by cofty in

thoughtful christians including scientists like francis collins and kenneth miller accept the evidence for evolution unconditionally.

the only thing that distinguishes their understanding of life from the views of dawkins is that they believe god planned and started the process intentionally.. just a word about the subtle but vital distinction between "theistic evolution" and "intelligent design".... over-simplifications alert - intelligent design is creationism in disguise.

it is a modern twist on the "paley's watch" argument.

simon17

Seeing all this suffering, couldn't one conclude that God is very much like Ares, who actually likes suffering and pain? It seems to me that the answer is yes.

They could, but I think you could even still argue a 'good' god using evolution. Supposing this God cannot see into the future, which to me is a reasonable constraint, then evolution could be a hands-off way of experiementing. Science has done experiements which may cause pain to an animal but is ultimately aimed at understanding, curiosity, advancement or something reasonably noble. A god allowing evolutionary processes to start in various places in the galaxy and 'seeing how it goes' is somewhat plausible. One could even argue for mild intervention from God in the case of humans. Perhaps evolution is not nearly as rare as sentience, and so allowing for God to try to 'step in' once a species has gotten to that level is also arguable.

Note, none of this is what I believe, but I can see the arguments being made

12

Were Elders told to mention the Faithful Slave / Governing Body / Organization more?

by pirata in

as of 5 years ago in my congregation, the "faithful slave" was rarely mentioned in talks, prayers, etc.

usually it was all about jehovah, and jesus got his token phrase at the end of a prayer with "in jesus name, amen".. now, in the past couple years i've noticed, especially since the elders have gone to the elders school, almost everytime an elder prays, and in many of the talks, there is mention of the faithful slave, organization, or governing body.

"thank you jehovah for giving us your organization, which provides us food at the proper time", "how thankful we are that the faithful slave provides..", etc.. for any elders who went to the elders school, did they specifically say to build more appreciation in the organization, faithful slave, etc.

simon17

This is how group think and peer pressure work. Fads and trends don't become popular because people are on the streets urging people to do a certain thing, wear a certain style, or speak a certain way. People see other people doing it and they follow along. All the WTBS has to do is set the example and the flock will figure it out and join in in short order. Ex: no one has to say "don't wear pant-suits." They just have to have no one in any assembly demonstrations have them, never show pictures of women in pantsuits in their publications, etc. Humans are great at picking up on these subtleties and molding themselves to fit the patterns around them

36

Watchtower Library NOT identical to printed publications

by cedars in

i realise the title of this thread will come as no surprise to many of you.

i've certainly heard before of subtle variations between extracts from the watchtower library and the actual printed literature.. what i didn't expect was to find this openly admitted to in the license agreement for the watchtower library, where it says in article 4:.

4. limited warranty.

simon17

Here's one reason they have this disclaimer:

In all fairness have we ever even found another single change of anything from WT to Bound Volumn? Its always that one example from 1989 about the 20th century/our time. I chalk that up to almost like an actual typo. They didn't wait until 2000 to go back and change it; it slipped through and they went back and changed it as soon as they could that year. There's no point in going back and changing old stuff for the WTBS. There's so much they would have to change (virtually everything ever printed before 1950) that its just easier to ignore all the old stuff.

This whole issue is really, in my opinion, a non-issue (especially when there are soooooooooooo many major issues with which to expose WTBS)