Posts by bohm

31

EPIC!#%* NOVEMBER 2015 WT VIDEO "Welcome Home My Friend, Now Your Life Can Start Again"

by NoMoreHustle in

well i just watched this "epic" video, i would have to say this is probably the most disturbing video yet.

there campaign to get people back is just pathetic in the most mind-manipulating way.

"welcome home" or "come back home" are they serious?

bohm

Splash: oh dear! But that was just Jesus, still laboring under old light.

7

Gone 3 years from here

by kozmo in

jw
friends

wow!

i haven't been on in three years now, i pretty much got myself caught up to date and times change as always.

we moved down to florida last year and i ran into some jw's at a booth they have in a flea market here, kissimmee, 10 minutes from everything disney.

bohm

Flipper is still around and he has become a grandpa! The Website is a common practice, everything is about directing people to it. Have you checked out their new video section (tv.jw.org)?

Oh and by the way, guess who are in moneytroubles? :-D

6

Interesting videos on using the socratic method to talk with people on their deeply held beliefs

by bohm in

jw
friends

it is rare you find something on youtube on religion which feels fresh, but this did it for me.

most here properly agree that the best (only) way to have a constructive conversation with jw who is in is using methods such as those described by steven hassan.

however if you search youtube or the internet, most discussions on faith takes the form of debates or at any rate discussion about factual things -- exactly the things steven hassan would tell you is the least likely to work.. i came across a series of youtube videos with a guy who is basically walking around with a camera and interviewing people on their beliefs.

bohm

It is rare you find something on youtube on religion which feels fresh, but this did it for me.

Most here properly agree that the best (only) way to have a constructive conversation with JW who is in is using methods such as those described by Steven Hassan. However if you search youtube or the internet, most discussions on faith takes the form of debates or at any rate discussion about factual things -- exactly the things Steven Hassan would tell you is the least likely to work.

I came across a series of youtube videos with a guy who is basically walking around with a camera and interviewing people on their beliefs. One can ask if that isn't a bit to preachy, however the interesting part is he follows a carefully structured dialogue which (too my mind) is very much inspired by work on cults and deprogramming. Specifically he focuses on using the socratic method (only ask questions) and the purpose of the dialogue is to make it clear to people how strongly they believe the things they believe, why they believe them and in turn make them question if those reasons are really that strong.

Obviously he is doing it from an atheistic perspective, however I think it is very beneficial to see for christians too since an atheist or christian face the same problem with family or friends who are in, namely how to make people question a belief structure which is firmly in place without triggering the cult personality.

His youtube channel is here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCocP40a_UvRkUAPLD5ezLIQ

selected videos:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLh10RgQgGuM-tnT7fKwgF4Dt57oh_yL5r

To get an idea about how this works, suppose you were talking with a jw. The sort of questions you would ask is first how strongly the person believes in God (you could alternatively ask, that jehovahs witness is gods organization), and to indicate that on a scale from 0-100 with 100 being absolute certainty and 0 being maximal doubt (this is very thought trough. He explains elsewhere he is using this scale rather than say letting 0 be there is absolutely no god to introduce the idea of doubt early on).

He will then ask for why the person believes this is the case; if different types of justification is given he will ask the person to divide them into a pie-chart say 40% evidence and 60% faith. He will then try to approach whatever reasons the person gives using follow-up question and never assert something as being factually wrong, typically using a version of the outsiders test of faith. Say for instance the person says he or she believes God exists because of fortunate things happening in his or her life, he will ask if she would believe less in God if unfortunate things happened, or if fortunate things could happen even if you did not believe in god, or give an example of a Muslim who said Allah existed because of fortunate things happening in her life.

Suppose the topic is evolution. An a dub says:

I don't believe in evolution because it has never been observed.

So instead of saying: Evolution is not a belief, evolution has been observed, macroevolution can't be observed bla bla you rather ask:

Just to clarify, what do you understand evolution to be in this context?

Can you give an example of what in your view would be an observation of evolution?

with follow up questions like:

Can things only be known to be true if they are observed?

etc. etc.

The approach he is following is directly influenced by Peter Boghossians "A manual for creating atheists", however I am much more impressed by the approach taken in the videos than with the book because it's a lot easier to see how it is supposed to be implemented and he isn't as preachy as Peter (like, he advocates you should chat people up on their beliefs if they are sitting next to you on a plane, yikes).

52

Let's Consolidate World Branch Layoff Threads - Oct 2015

by TheListener in

jw
friends

there has been many threads from various posters around the world about recent bethel layoffs.. so far i remember threads about:.

south africa.

united states.

bohm

Any news on the Bethel in Scandinavia (iirc it is in Denmark)?

53

JW Broadcasting—November 2015

by wifibandit in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i09wzqof4zi.

ha!

that is supposed to make people go back?!

bohm

The thing that stood out to me was the made-up story with the asian women who tried to encourage the other person (at least I am pretty sure it was made up, it was not introduced like she was a real women). She said the other person said some strange things (can't remember the exact words) and I am sure it was referring to things she had supposedly read on the internet critical of the org. The asian women then said she just ignored it.

53

JW Broadcasting—November 2015

by wifibandit in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i09wzqof4zi.

ha!

that is supposed to make people go back?!

bohm

NewYork44M: Who can blame him with all that spiritual food lol

Another thing, anyone else noticed how they say: "The governing body has decided..." and not "we have decided.."? Like aren't they they supposed to be the governing body?

53

JW Broadcasting—November 2015

by wifibandit in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i09wzqof4zi.

ha!

that is supposed to make people go back?!

bohm

It feels like this:

Reads slowly from the bible: "Jehovah loves you"

"What did we just learn from that verse?"

"Jehovah loooves you"

for 90 friggin' minutes.

53

JW Broadcasting—November 2015

by wifibandit in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i09wzqof4zi.

ha!

that is supposed to make people go back?!

bohm

ca. 1.17: As of december, governing body members will only host every second program (for some reason). The rest will be hosted by members of the teaching committee.

53