Heaven

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Posts by Heaven

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  31

  Crisis of Consience market price (we are in a bull market)

  by NewYork44M in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was considering getting another copy of one of ray's books and was shocked about the market value.

  is ray's book worth $1,000?

  perhaps, but it is a bit shocking.

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  Heaven

  I have a copy and would sell it for a grand in a heart beat!
  
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  174

  The Bible is NOT Error-Free

  by FusionTheism in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  for many christians, the bible is viewed as the 100% error-free, perfect book straight from god, where every single word was carefully chosen by god for a reason.

  but, usually, when you have a discussion on the topic, these christians will end up saying that only the original copies written directly from the hands of the prophets and apostles were error-free, and all manuscript copies since then are subject to copyist mistakes and other errors.. since zero original copies are in existence, how do we know the originals were error-free?

  why should we think the originals should be error-free to begin with?

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  Heaven

  You don't have to read far in the Bible to find factual errors. I am not sure the ancients really cared.The books of the Bible were written over a thousand year period. Our knowledge has certainly changed and grown during this time.

  The issue I have is that modern day religious authorities still trot the Bible out as inerrant. They lose credibility and trust when they do this.
  
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  16

  What is their position on IVF?

  by voodoo lady in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  for example, if a married couple had fertility issues relating to the male partner's sperm, could they use a donor?.

  is it frowned upon in a more general sense because people should be preaching rather than procreating?.

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  Heaven

  If you believe the Adam and Eve story to be true, the entire human population is the product of incest... soooo...

  I get the impression Botchtower doesn't like children. Kids are definitely a hindrance to the preaching work. They aren't exactly kid friendly either. But if the Borg decides to redefine the way the preaching work is done they may relax a bit.

  In their history they have counseled people about not getting married (which also then translates to not having a family) 'because the end is so near and there is much work to do before then'.

  Back in the Bronze and Iron Ages, there was no technology to allow for IVF or sperm donation (at least in the sense of a modern sperm bank).

  If a couple really wants children and IVF is their only option I say do it. Why would it be Botchtower's business anyways? If the couple never says anything, how is anyone going to know.
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  12

  Closing Prayer at RC...youth baptism

  by freemindfade in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  so while 99% of the closing prayer i did not hear, what i did was the elder say "we need to encourage our young ones to get baptised.

  we can't let the world take anymore of them away" .

  i found this very strange and looked up in disbelief.

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  Heaven

  LOL @ Outlaw!

  So this, to me, confirms that the hemorrhaging of young ones from the Borg continues. My Dad told me back in 2009-2010 that "the young ones are leaving in droves".

  I was like all YAY! inside.

  They have no idea how to really relate to anyone, especially young kids. Many times I have read people saying and have also felt myself that it is one enormously boring organization. Hey Botchtower, keep up the good work!
  
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  32

  It came in today's mail

  by Virgochik in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it came today, the dreaded envelope containing my personal copy of "return to jehovah" from my elderly, desperate mother.

  it included a small note asking me to read it over and to let her know what i think.

  she got it at her assembly.. firstly, i'm angry that she continues to push her religion on me, given that i stopped attending meetings over thirty years ago, and very offended that she assumes that i still want to be a witness, which is her choice of religion, not mine.

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  Heaven

  Hi VirgoChk... are you your Mom's Power of Attorney? If this has not been setup yet, I suggest you get it done.

  You and I are close in age. I used to tell my folks things like "You don't have to worry. Jehovah knows what's on my heart" or "Jehovah reads my heart so not to worry." I am lucky as I never got baptized so my parents had the technicality that I wasn't really a JW. They could still associate with me. If you were baptized you definitely have to tread lightly. Does your Mom believe that all non-JWs are going to be destroyed at Armageddon? I found my folks used to waffle on this. They knew that there were good non-JWs in the world, especially those who put their lives on the line protecting, healing, educating, and feeding others.
  

  I like Daniel's suggestion as well. It was very difficult at times but I had to ensure that I showed my parents unconditional love. I also tried to live my life as a good person; to be an example of a non-JW who wasn't evil. I find JW's are actually very afraid especially for their loved ones not in the religion. I think it's our job to reassure them that all is well and not to worry. I would also ask questions that weren't directly pointed at the religion. Since you are close to my age, sounds like you, too, have experienced the failure of Armageddon to arrive 'soon' for your entire life. If my folks pushed their agenda I would ask what their definition of the word 'soon' is. I would say "If I told you I was coming to your house 'soon', and 50 years passed and I never showed up, would you still think I was coming 'soon'? I liked to ask them questions that would get them thinking logically.
  

  So any discussions I would have with my parents I tried not to badmouth the religion, but rather point to specific issues I saw especially Biblical ones. For example, I had a discussion with my Dad about Abraham Sarah and Hagar and how wrong it was for God to sanction this. He and I were on the same page about that story. Try to find some common ground that affirms both of your beliefs (like helping the less fortunate for example) and then ask how she has done that lately? Perhaps give her examples of what you are doing.

  Again, my goal was always to:

  a) Show unconditional love. Treat your Mom with respect. Make her feel good. Compliment her on things. Keep the mood positive.
  

  b) Remain Calm. Do not react negatively or get angry when they got emotionally abusive (this is very difficult to do at first but it can be done. You need to practice. Maybe get your husband to help you with actual scenarios).
  

  c) Listen to what they are saying and point out, nicely, any logical fallacy. Never directly badmouth the religion.
  
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  10

  This is what leadership looks like

  by Pistoff in

  1. social
  2. current

  since the day pope francis told catholics to stop obsessing about abortion and gay marriage, and get to the business of helping the poor, i have been afraid for his life.. in one statement, he pierced 2 sacred cows of catholic and evangelical thought, and he has not stopped.. he has lectured the world on real evils, mentioning capitalism in particular as a system that has left billions in desperate poverty.. he has now said that global warming threatens the world, particularly the poor, and is calling on the world to change it's lifestyle to save the planet.. i can't remember ever, in my entire life, when someone in as powerful a position as the pope, actually speaks out loud and in public the actual truth of the world's environment and calling the world to action, without regard for the consequences.. hard line catholics don't like him; fox news hates him, one pundit telling him to leave science to the scientists (of course, fox news doesn't leave global warming to the scientists) and today this from greg gutfield, fox news:.

  "the most dangerous person on the planet is someone who is seeking strange new respect from their adversaries.

  and that is what the pope is doing, said gutfeld, implying that the recognition of the existence of man-made climate change is fundamentally at odds with catholicism.

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  Heaven

  And yet, he said that people who speak out against religion should expect to be punched.

  Seems he talks out of both sides of his mouth.

  Has he said anything yet about birth control?
  
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  17

  WATCHTOWER AND BULLSHIT VIEWS ON SCIENCE (THE WATCHTOWER JUNE 2015)

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the watchtower june 2015 (bullshit).

  the latest watchtower (online at j-dub dot argh!

  ) features a hilarious article.

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  Heaven

  Religions have always cherry picked scriptures to affirm their agenda. I see no reason why they would stop at the Bible with this practice, particularly if they can use an external source to also prop up their faulty ideals. I have often been accused of taking scripture out of context. When I ask the person accusing me to explain how I've done that, they are usually unable to. It seems to me, even religion needs validation from outside their hallowed walls.
  

  Science and the scientific method are greatly needed to erode the religious strangleholds on people. We need more Dawkins', Harris', Hitchens', Dennett's, Gervais', Maher's, etc speaking out against the hypocrisy of belief and religion.
  

  In any discussion with religious people, I think it is important to first establish which god they are speaking about when they broach the 'belief' subject. It is interesting to watch the confused look on their faces. It's like they've never thought about it before and are ill-prepared to articulate exactly what/who their 'god' is. They don't even know his name in many cases. In my discussions, they have very little knowledge of the Bible, it's origins, as well as the natural world.
  

  I like how Stenger approaches things. It is how I looked at things as an older child and teenager being raised in the JW faith. The claims being made about god do not hold up to scrutiny. IF he exists, god is really inconsequential because he is ineffectual. As one of my good friends states: "God/Religion is nothing but a fraud."
  

  I think Epicurus's quote is still one of the most complete and succinct on the matter of god:

  
  

  If god is inspiring people, it is my conclusion he's really f'ing with them.

  Logic and reason must be abandoned in the realm of faith and belief. Once one abandons these, one has crossed over into the world of insanity.
  
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  9

  How did you feel after..

  by zeb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ..you had been away from the wt for a time.

  i saw a quote tonight and it leapt off the page for me.. "now i know what it feels like to be part of a circle of friends, part of a group.

  its a very different feeling than i have had before and it feels wonderful and right'.. spoken by a lady after being released of her heart "wall" that she had established for protection.. + comments please if you like.

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  Heaven

  punky said: Who is it that says, "let's review - it's a cult?"

  That's Oubliette, punky.

  I tried to counter the negativity. I was unsuccessful. This is because I did not live with my parents once I grew up.
  

  To counter negativity, you have to have positiveness, and a lot of it. For every negative thought connection your brain makes, you need at least 12 positive connections to nullify the 1 negative one. This is how strongly a negative experience affects the brain and human psyche. It's part of the survival mechanism and the 'fight or flight' response.

  I just finished a course at work entitled "Turning Stress Into Strength". It cited that 1 in 5 Canadians will experience mental illness this year. Prolonged stress is linked to psychological illness. Full-time employees are at risk for burnout. Our 'fight or flight' responses are regularly being activated. Money is a major source of stress but if one is educated about finances and how to manage money, one is usually less stressed about it.

  Mental Health Promotion involves action. I thought this was very interesting as one of the key doctrines of Jehovah's Witnesses is really 'do nothing' in their "Pray More + Wait on Jehovah" belief.

  In a study group of 127 depressed people who were not seeing any relief from their symptoms by taking anti-depressants, 37 people from this group saw their depression go into remission from exercise alone. Yoga has been shown to have similar effects as some anti-anxiety medications. Deep breathing triggers release of stress reducing hormones such as dopamine and serotonin.
  

  A healthy diet is also important. Consumption of processed foods negatively impacts all aspects of health.

  There is more but I think most on here know the rest (manage your time, don't set unrealistic expectations, get adequate sleep, focus on finding solutions to your problems, etc).
  
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  16

  Preach, preach, preach....feel guilty...preach some more

  by Tornintwo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  since starting to wake up, i can't help notice how so many talks emphasise preaching, increasing your hours, pioneering etc...with a hefty load of guilt on the side.. i always noticed the guilt, but now i'm noticing how talks that seem to start out on another issue always seem to come back to hours!

  visit talk seemed to start out about persecution, trusting in jehovah etc...but the main thrust in the end was, 'do more hours, pioneer, don't get an education or pursue a career, don't get distracted, hooray for the pioneers!

  if you dont do more hours you will be 'the sort that shrink back to destruction'.

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  Heaven

  To force someone to do something they are not cut out to do is ludicrous.

  I never felt that it was anyone's right, including my own, to try and coerce someone into a religion.

  JW Field-Serve Us is really being a door-to-door religious salesman.
  

  The scripture at James 3:1 applies very much to JWs, especially since they are preaching made up crap:

  "Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly."

  So... even the Bible says not everyone should be doing this.
  
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  9

  How did you feel after..

  by zeb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ..you had been away from the wt for a time.

  i saw a quote tonight and it leapt off the page for me.. "now i know what it feels like to be part of a circle of friends, part of a group.

  its a very different feeling than i have had before and it feels wonderful and right'.. spoken by a lady after being released of her heart "wall" that she had established for protection.. + comments please if you like.

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  Heaven

  After leaving home and getting hired at my present employer (over 30 years ago), I realized just how negative my parents had become when I'd visit them.
  

  Everything was bad, nothing was good, and there were no answers other than 'Jehovah' (which I find to be a completely useless answer).

  I thought about how our lives were diverging, like a fork in the road, a path that splits in 2 with each going off into 2 different directions. It made me sad... like I was suffering their death before they had actually died.