Posts by MOG
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343I hate the Watchtower but I really still hate the Trinity Jesus is NOT God!
by Witness 007 insome bibles use the term "worship" when refering to jesus...at times people did fall down and bow to him........this doesn't show he was god!
the greek term; proskeyneo, means to prostrate oneself, to bow down and show honour.
now, this was done for jehovah.....and his representatives....jesus israelite kings and priests....but for the honour of jehovah not as creature worship which even angels would refuse.. also i studied the non-biblical early church gospels which really does show a slow decline over 150 years, into the trinity as the watchtower claims...........although i still hate the watchtower society at least i learnt something that wasn't a lie..
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43
Take out your bibles and tell me......with the proper verses
by JH inshould one adore and pray to jehovah or to jesus?.
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MOG
lovely lil,
then we both agree then...Jesus is GOD, just not GOD THE FATHER...
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43
Take out your bibles and tell me......with the proper verses
by JH inshould one adore and pray to jehovah or to jesus?.
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MOG
actually I use BibleGateway..I never have quoted from NWT
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43
Take out your bibles and tell me......with the proper verses
by JH inshould one adore and pray to jehovah or to jesus?.
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MOG
In regards specifically to John 1:18 - other translations
Emphatic Diaglott
John 1:18 God no one has seen ever; the only-begotten son, that being in the bosom of the Father,
he has made known.New King James
18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, [ a ] who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
New Century
18 No one has ever seen God. But God the only Son is very close to the Father, [ a ] and he has shown us what God is like.
American Standard Version
18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him
These translations will say "Nobody has Seen God (THE GOD), but through his ONLY BEGOTTN SON (Jesus Christ), he (THE GOD) has shown you what he (THE GOD) is LIKE.
Also this is like saying " I am MARK, but nobody has seen me (Mark), but I (Mark) will send my only SON (Steve), who is an IMAGE (Steve is a copy- not the original) of me (Mark), so that to show YOU (earth beings) what I (Mark) am LIKE
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43
Take out your bibles and tell me......with the proper verses
by JH inshould one adore and pray to jehovah or to jesus?.
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MOG
Lovely Lil
have you read my previous post above in regards to"I and the Father, We are ONE" (John 10:30).
??" -
343
I hate the Watchtower but I really still hate the Trinity Jesus is NOT God!
by Witness 007 insome bibles use the term "worship" when refering to jesus...at times people did fall down and bow to him........this doesn't show he was god!
the greek term; proskeyneo, means to prostrate oneself, to bow down and show honour.
now, this was done for jehovah.....and his representatives....jesus israelite kings and priests....but for the honour of jehovah not as creature worship which even angels would refuse.. also i studied the non-biblical early church gospels which really does show a slow decline over 150 years, into the trinity as the watchtower claims...........although i still hate the watchtower society at least i learnt something that wasn't a lie..
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MOG
zico,
i agree with you 100% on this..that the JW forget the Diety of Jesus Christ..one thing they forget that he is now the KING in heaven....
"Given to Me [no 1900 years later in 1914ish] was ALL AUTHORITY IN HEAVEN AND ON THE EARTH." Matt. 28:19 (appearance to the apostles after his death)
Also in regards to John 20:28
here is a cut and paste in regards to this exaltation by Thomas to Jesus
Christian scholars such as Theodore of Mopsuestia (c.350-428), the Bishop of Mopsuestia, interpreted this verse to not be directed at Jesus but at God "the Father." Thus, it is similar in meaning to our modern exclamations of surprise "My God!" or "My Lord!." In other words, this was an outburst designed to display surprise and disbelief rather than an affirmation that Jesus was in fact God "the Father."
Secondly, the word translated in this verse as "God" is indeed the Greek "Ho theos" (The God), and not "theos" (divine). However, when studying the history of this verse in the ancient Biblical manuscripts from which our modern Bibles have been compiled we find an interesting fact, specifically, that the ancient Biblical manuscripts themselves are not in agreement as to the correct form of this word. For example, the codex Bezae (or codex D) is a fifth century manuscript containing Greek and Latin texts of the Gospels and Acts, which was discovered in the 16th century by Theodore Beza in a monastery in Lyon. The predecessor of the codex Bezae and other church manuscripts do not contain the article "Ho" ("THE") in their text (The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture, Bart D. Ehrman, p. 266). What this means is that this verse in it's original form, if it is to be understood to be addressing Jesus (pbuh) himself, only addresses him as "divine" and not as the "Almighty God." Thus, it is similar in meaning to the meaning conveyed when prophet Moses is described as being a "god" in Exodus 7:1 (or when all Jews are described as being "gods" in Psalms 82:6, or when the devil is described as god in 2 Corinthians 4:4), effectively reducing the exclamation of Thomas, if it were indeed directed to Jesus, to "My lord the divine!," or "my divine lord!"
John 20:30-31
If the author of John had recognized Thomas' words to be a testimony that "Jesus is God" and if the author interpreted Jesus' silence to be his approval of this claimed testimony, then John would have written "that ye might believe that Jesus is the Almighty God" and not "that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ..." -
343
I hate the Watchtower but I really still hate the Trinity Jesus is NOT God!
by Witness 007 insome bibles use the term "worship" when refering to jesus...at times people did fall down and bow to him........this doesn't show he was god!
the greek term; proskeyneo, means to prostrate oneself, to bow down and show honour.
now, this was done for jehovah.....and his representatives....jesus israelite kings and priests....but for the honour of jehovah not as creature worship which even angels would refuse.. also i studied the non-biblical early church gospels which really does show a slow decline over 150 years, into the trinity as the watchtower claims...........although i still hate the watchtower society at least i learnt something that wasn't a lie..
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MOG
reniaa- Actually more people make a serious mistake with the trinity belief because when they start arguing its always in reference in DUET, where they would have a better argument (at best), its when they add the additional 3rd person (holy spirit) that its crumbles at their feet.
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ninja has a question
by ninja in(mark 8:22-24) 22 now they put in at beth?sa'i?da.
here people brought him a blind man, and they entreated him to touch him.
23 and he took the blind man by the hand, brought him outside the village, and, having spit upon his eyes, he laid his hands upon him and began to ask him: do you see anything?
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MOG
hug a tree with your eyes closed...
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43
Take out your bibles and tell me......with the proper verses
by JH inshould one adore and pray to jehovah or to jesus?.
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MOG
outaservice
They are both GODs as well..Just that you never hear Jesus be called 'GOD THE FATHER', and you never hear THE FATHER call his son 'his GOD'..therefore..even though Jesus is GOD, he is still not 'THE FATHER'..He has kingship, he has ALL DIETY but that is through his FATHER (is this so hard to believe)..
Eph. 1:3: "Blessed be the God and Father OF our Lord Jesus Christ"
Col. 1:3: "We are thanking the God and Father OF our Lord Jesus Christ"
I Pet. 1:3: "Blessed be the God and Father OF our Lord Jesus Christ"
God and Father of Jesus does NOT have a GOD.
John 15:26
26"When the (A)Helper comes, (B)whom I will send to you from the Father, that is (C)the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, (D)He will testify about Me,
Notice there is a Spirit of Truth also, then there many more SPIRITS of Jehovah than just the HOLY SPIRIT
How Many?..i dont know - have to keep counting but i know you can take a look a this verse
The SEVEN Spirits of God (Rev. 4:5)
I'll stick to this verse regarding
I Cor. 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
Philippians 2: 5-11
5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did NOT COUNT EQUALITY with God a thing to be grasped, 7but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant,being born in the likeness of men. 8And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death,even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
here in Philippians, you see the Paul the apostle stating jesus being 100% man (likeness of men), 100% God (for of God), but yet Paul says that Jesus did not consider himself EQUAL to his FATHER..and at the end every confession to Jesus Christ being our lord is for what, for the GLORY OF GOD who? GOD THE FATHER
Also, in regards to the following verse
"I and the Father, We are ONE" (John 10:30).
Nowhere here does Jesus say WE ARE ONE "GOD"..One in likeness how then?? lets see what the scriptures tell us
John 17: 11
11And I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father,keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one.
Some things jump out quickly..one WHO GAVE JESUS name to him? his HOLY FATHER (GOD THE FATHER), then in continuation of the prayer to his FATHER, this is what his request is about the disciples "that they may be one, even as we are one"
also jump to John 17:21
21that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
Interesting repeat and a continue proceeds in the Gospel of John.. -
343
I hate the Watchtower but I really still hate the Trinity Jesus is NOT God!
by Witness 007 insome bibles use the term "worship" when refering to jesus...at times people did fall down and bow to him........this doesn't show he was god!
the greek term; proskeyneo, means to prostrate oneself, to bow down and show honour.
now, this was done for jehovah.....and his representatives....jesus israelite kings and priests....but for the honour of jehovah not as creature worship which even angels would refuse.. also i studied the non-biblical early church gospels which really does show a slow decline over 150 years, into the trinity as the watchtower claims...........although i still hate the watchtower society at least i learnt something that wasn't a lie..
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MOG
An inaccurate translation of Exodus 3:13 leads to a faulty understanding of this verse. In numerous Bibles one can read the question: ‘What is his name?’ as in Judges 13:17, when Manoah wanted to know the name (that is, the pronunciation of the name) of the angel who came to meet him. On the other hand, the Israelites asked Moses: ‘How is his name?’ – that is, ‘what does His name mean?’ or ‘what does His fame mean?’
One can verify that in Hebrew the interrogation ‘what is,’ or ‘how is,’ is ‘mâ,’ and ‘who is,’ is ‘mî.’ Thus, there’s a big difference between asking to know a name because one is in ignorance of it (as in Ezra 5:4) and asking the meaning of a name, which one already knows, as in Genesis 32:27 where the angel asks Jacob to remind him of the meaning (He will supplant) of his name, which meaning was already known to him (Genesis 27:36), in order to give him a new one (He will contend – Genesis 32:28).
Thus, when Moses asked God: ‘How is his name?’ God gave the explanation ‘I shall [prove to] be who (or what) I shall [prove to] be’ (èhyèh ashèr èhyèh). Even here, regrettably, numerous translators are influenced by Greek philosophy on The Being as existing that was developed by Plato in some of his works, including ‘Parmenides.’ For example, the Septuagint translated this passage as ‘I am the Being (égô éimi o ôn in Greek), or, ‘I am He who is.’ Yet Aquila's Translation (which is more faithful to Hebrew) translates this sentence as, I shall be: I shall be (ésomai ésomai in Greek).
As you can see from a study on the translation of this sentence, the difficulty results from translators who want to explain this translation by means of their personal beliefs, which are very often influenced by Greek philosophy; otherwise there is no difficulty. For example, one finds the word èhyèh just before Exodus 3:12 and just after Exodus 4:12, 15, and here translators have no problem translating it as ‘I shall [prove to be] be with you.’ Moreover, the Talmud retains this explanation for the meaning of the Name.
A better translation of Exodus 3:13, 14 would then be: Then Moses said to God, ‘Look, I’ll go to the children of Israel and tell them the God of our ancestors has sent me to you, but they’re going to ask, How is his name? What should I tell them?’ And God told Moses, ‘I shall [prove to] be what I shall [prove to] be! Just tell the children of Israel that I shall [prove to] be has sent you