Dear Nemail: Most of the people here are indeed ex-Jehovahs Witnesses. Most of the people on this discussion board are of the opinion that the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society exists primarily to sell their magazines and books in order to earn a profit. Moreover, we feel that the Witnesses are a destructive, high-control sect that harms its members in many ways. If you want an answer to your question, I'd recommend that you ask the Elders in your congregation. Or you might perhaps write to the Society. But be careful. As many here can attest, people have gotten into trouble for just asking questions. If I were you, I would most definitely NOT let on that I thought that the faithful and discrete slave could possibly be the least bit wrong. That would not be cool. You could get in a lot of trouble for that.
Rapunzel
JoinedPosts by Rapunzel
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Marriage after Armageddon
by nemail ini've been a jw all my life and am thoroughly convinced this is the truth.
but there is one thing that i just don't understand.
many jw's believe that people who get resurrected in the new system will not get married.
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Why Is Relgion So Focused on Eschatology - to the Point of Obsession?
by Rapunzel inone of the major concepts that seems to be found in virtually all of the world's major religions is that of eschatology - the study of the end things, specifically the end of the world.
this is one idea that unites the disparate religions of the world.
furthermore, eschatological concerns constitute a link or a bridge between the religions currently practised in the world, and other ancient, forgotten religions.
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Rapunzel
I think that apocalyptical eschatology is somehow intimately connected with teleology - the study of [or, in existential terms, the longing for] design, purpose and meaning in human life and history, as well as the cosmos. Human beings seem to be driven to seek out patterns and design; they seek to impose an order on the chaotic flux of random phenomena that they call "experience". They search for forms, figures and faces in clouds. Humans seem to crave a sense of purpose in their existence; and they seem to long for a sense of purpose in the cosmos that they sometimes call "God." All of this well and good, I suppose; at least it is relatively harmless. But the associate aspect of teleology - eschatology - can have all sorts of undesirable consequences. Eschatology can be co-opted - hijacked, if you will; and it can lead to disaster. Just think of the case of the Aztecs. Their myths spoke of a fair-skinned God who be the reincarnation of their "feathered serpent" deity. One day, such a fair-skinned "god" did appear. The Aztecs were expecting deliverance; they got Cortez. Belief in myths can sometimes lead to disaster. In our world "equipped" with nuclear bombs and other weapons of mass destruction, the result could be the annihilation of our species and the destruction of our planet. What needs to be done - at the very least - is for people to consciously and closely examine these eschatological myths. People need to sudy these myths objectively. We humans need to be aware of the source of these myths.
I fear that this will be "mission impossible," since I feel that the source of these myths lies deep in the human mind. People speak of certain neurotics as having a "death wish." Perhaps apocalyptic eschatology is an indication that humanity as a collective may have an inclination toward a death wish.
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Why Is Relgion So Focused on Eschatology - to the Point of Obsession?
by Rapunzel inone of the major concepts that seems to be found in virtually all of the world's major religions is that of eschatology - the study of the end things, specifically the end of the world.
this is one idea that unites the disparate religions of the world.
furthermore, eschatological concerns constitute a link or a bridge between the religions currently practised in the world, and other ancient, forgotten religions.
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Rapunzel
One of the major concepts that seems to be found in virtually all of the world's major religions is that of eschatology - the study of the end things, specifically the end of the world. This is one idea that unites the disparate religions of the world. Furthermore, eschatological concerns constitute a link or a bridge between the religions currently practised in the world, and other ancient, forgotten religions. Why do all religions speak of the coming death; destruction; famine; chaos; upheaval; and disaster that will mark "The End"? To be sure, the world's various religions propose different scenarios in regard to what will happen at the End of Time, but they share a fundamental point in common in that all major religions speak of terrible things that will happen at a given point in the end. I used to think that only the three so-called "Abrahamic" religions - Judaism; Christianity; and Islam - were obsessed with eschatology, but such ideas are by no means limited to these three religions; they are also found in Hinduism and Buddhism [which may not be all that surprising after all, given that Buddhism is an off-shoot of Hinduism]. Moreover, it seems that eschatological concerns were on the minds of people who practised religions that are no longer practised. People in ancient Assyria thought that the world, as knew it, could not possibly endure much longer; they too were expecting the end of the world to come soon. Ancient believers in Valhalla wrote of a time when the gods themselves would go insane, and set Valhalla on fire.
In the opinion of many people, religion is the product of the human psyche. So, what is it about the human psyche that compels people toward this unhealthy eschatological focus? Are these fears a sort of masochism? Eschatological dread has been a part of religion for millenia; and this dread is still evident in today's "modern" world. Why is this so, do you think?
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Some Things About JWs Just Aren't Right!..... Huh???
by minimus injust because someone's a witness, it doesn't mean they're horrible people.
but the religion is very strange.
when you think about it, a witness can't go to a work christmas party by themselves but if an unbelieving mate wanted his jw wife to accompany him, this is her personal business.
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Rapunzel
Witnesses take pride in the fact that, throughout the history of their organixation, they have fought for their civil rights by using the courts to secure justice and fair treatment for themselves, especially in the areas of free speech and freedom of religion. They like to point out that, in so doing, society as as whole has benefited. After all, when the civil rights of an unpopular minority are protected, then the majority can breathe all the easier knowing that their own rights are necessarily protected.
All this is without a doubt true; and the benefits to society in general due to the Witnesses activism and zeal in pursuing their civil rights have been acknowledged by many people, such as sociologists and historians who are not Witnesses and may even be hostile toward Witness doctine. So, my question is: Why don't the Witnesses extend these hard-earned civil rights to their own followers? A glaring inconsistency is this: The Witnesses have indeed strove to secure their right to express dissenting opinion and ideas, yet they allow absolutely no dissension in their own ranks; they don't even allow questioning. They are all too happy to enjoy the protection of every freedom they choose, yet they show no gratitude to the liberal democracies in which they live. They are like hypocritical parasites "feeding off" of society's protection, but giving nothing back in return in terms of loyalty or even appreciation. not even deigning to give their own rank and file the same freedom of thought that they have been given.
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True Science, To Doubt, and to be Ignorant
by VM44 intrue science teaches, above all, to doubt, and to be ignorant.
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- miguel de unamuno, the tragic sense of life..
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Rapunzel
"I would gladly give my life for a man who is looking for the truth. But I would gladly kill a man who thinks he has found the truth." Luis Bunuel
"Religious faith, profound as it is, must surely remain a private matter. This rejection of totalized explanations is the modern condition. And this is where the novel, the form created to discuss the fragmentation of truth, comes in...The elevation of the quest for the Grail over the Grail itself, the acceptance that all that is solid has melted into air, that reality and morality are not givens but imperfect human constructs, is the point from which fiction begins." Salman Rushdie
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Elders knew a woman got raped- the woman presses charges but case was
by cognac indropped because there wasn't enough evidence.
the elders did there investigation and could probably help the case out a lot because they found the woman to be innocent and the guy guilty... they knew eachother through jws.
he was going to the meetings his whole life, but didn't have any priviledges.. 6-8 months later he became a publisher.
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Rapunzel
I have a question in regard to this tragic case - Does the concept of ecclesiastical privilege extend to elders in the Jehovah's Winesses organization? Can they use this as an excuse for NOT reporting a criminal felony such as rape, murder, or arson? Are they not supposed to report instances of pedophilia to the police? Are pedophilia and child abuse the only exceptions to ecclesiastical privilege? I ask this because don't the Witnesses say that they are different from other churches in that there exists no "clergy class"in the Witness organization? Don't they claim that all "publishers" should be considered as clergy? What does U,S, law state in regard to criminal felonies "confessed" [reported] to Jehovah's Witnesses elders by members of the organization?
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About the unforgivable sin of blasphemy of holy spirit
by Vikier inok, i'm a newbie of jw and the reason why i'm here is because i once said "i deny of holy spirit" out of the disappointment at christianity that includes a theory of hell for disbelievers.
however i love jesus and please i want to know what's jw's belief on hell and afterlife, what's jw's belief on "blasphemy of holy spirit" which is said to be unforgivable.
please i really feel i'm hell bound and i hope i can get a relief here.
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Rapunzel
Vickier - The short answer to your question is that the Witnesses do not believe in Hell; they utterly reject the entire concept of Hell as torturous punishment in the afterlife. In fact, they reject the whole idea of an afterlife in any way, shape or form. The Witnesses believe that the "dead are conscious of nothing;" for the Witnesses, the dead exist in a state of unconscious oblivion. The Witnesses use the Hebrew term Sheol [the grave] to designate the collective condition of dead people. The Witnesses regard dead people as existing in a state of total unawareness - an utter lack of consciousness. Witnesses do believe, however, that the dead will be resurrected and live on a paradise Earth. But, again, the Witnesses reject any notion of a Hell,with its attendant eternal torment.
In regard to the supposed sinning against the holy spirit, perhas somebody with more knowledge than me can answer this question in a better fashion. As far as I know, the idea of sinning against the Holy Spirit is indeterminable in their opinion. That is to say that the Witnesses believe that no one can ever really say for sure whether a person has sinned against the Holy Spirit. As far as I know, they leave that determination up to God.
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Does the "24 Elders Class" constitute a New Class?
by Rapunzel ini was wondering if someone could kindly answer my question: is there a new, "24 elders" class of people?
i was baptized a long time ago - in 1976. i also faded a long time ago; i left in '78 or so.
in any case, at that time, the witnesses generally spoke of two groups or classes of people - the so-called "annointed" consisting of the 144,000 with the heavenly hope, and the so called "large crowd" whose hope was to inherit an earthly paradise.
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Rapunzel
Narkissos - Je vous remercie d'avoir repondu a ma question; je l'apprecie beaucoup. I must say that I find this interpretive nuance rather arbitrary and baffling. Specifically, i t baffles me how they can vacillate between the number 24 and the number 144,000 in designating the same group of people. As is well known, the Witnesses claim that the number 144,000 is a literal number; and this idea is itself an exception that runs counter to their tendency to ascribe a symbolic meaning to other numbers, i.e., they claim that the numbers seven (7) and twelve (12) are symbolic of completion and perfection, while 6 is symbolic of imperfection in that it falls short of 7. However, in turn, they use the number 24 to symbolically represent the formerly literal 144,000 as a collective "installed" in heaven. Thus, the number 24 becomes an exception to the exception?!?! On earth, these "annointed" are designated by the literal number 144,000 while in heaven, this same group is then designated by the symbolic number 24? Why does a literal number on Earth become a symbolic designation in heaven? Je n'y comprends rien!!
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STRICKLY HYPOTHETICAL......
by agapa37 inthis question is a hypothetical one, posing a, what would you do type situation.
think back to the days of the bible kings for the nation of israel.
there were bad kings who took israel off track by their rule and some good kings who instituded changes that brought them back on track.
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Rapunzel
- And why are Unitarian-Universalists such bad singers? Because they keep turning a coule of pages ahead in their hymn books to see if they agree with the words.
- One day, this guy buys a Mercedes Benz, and he's very proud of it, so he hopes to keep it. The thought occurs to him to enlist God's help and protection in the matter; and he goes to a priest and asks the priest to pronounce a blessing on his Mercedes. The priests asks: "What's a Mercedes?" The guy then goes to a rabbi; and the rabbi asks the same question: "What's a Mercedes?" In his quest for a blessing, the man goes to visit both a Hindu and Moslem clergyman; and they both ask the same question: "What's a Mercedes?" Finally, desperate and exasperated, the guy goes to a Unitarian-Universalist who asks: "What's a blessing?"
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STRICKLY HYPOTHETICAL......
by agapa37 inthis question is a hypothetical one, posing a, what would you do type situation.
think back to the days of the bible kings for the nation of israel.
there were bad kings who took israel off track by their rule and some good kings who instituded changes that brought them back on track.
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Rapunzel
In order to truly reform the Jehovah's Witnesses, it would be necessary to strip away all their false docrtines and ideology, reducing the movement down to the basis - the core - of all true religion which is, namely, to be found in what Jesus called [and what many others in diverse faiths have called] the two greatest commandments: 1.) To love God [however you conceive of God] with all your heart and 2.) to love other people as you love yourself. As a rabbi once said, these two commandments are the foundation of, and are at the heart of, the Torah; all else is merely commentary
In order to reform themselves, the Witnesses would need to understand that each person must approach "God" [a.k.a. the Unique; the Ineffable; the Ultimate] in his or her own way; my way cannot be another person's path, just as another person's path cannot be my way. The Witnesses would have to appreciate the personal and culture differences that mark each person's approach to God. They would have to manifest tolerance and allow each person to follow his/her conscience in their search for God.
In essence, the Witnesses would have to transform themselves into Unitarian-Universalists, you know, the people who begin their prayers with the words - "To whom it may concern..." Of course, such an idea is impossible. Can you imagine what you would get if you "crossed" a Jehovah's Witness with a U-U? You would get a pain in the ass who knocks on your door looking for a discussion.