Posts by flipper

21

9 dead in ‘hate crime’ shooting at historic African American church in Charleston

by pronomono in

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/06/17/white-gunman-sought-in-shooting-at-historic-charleston-african-ame-church/.

this is such a shame.

i've always thought about things like this happening because of how crazy some people are, especially in regards to religion.

flipper

This is a horrific crime, terribly sad. When is America going to wake up to the fact that prejudice and racial hatred is alive and happening still after all these years and something NEEDS to be done about curtailing and preventing it ? Either by more education in school systems or churches . And when is America going to wake up to the fact that yes- we may have the right to bear arms - but does that include bat shit crazy mentally insane people ? In my opinion, no it does NOT. So many random shootings killing multiple people have occurred over the last 15 to 20 years you would think we are living in a f&cking war zone. All over the United States. This crime last night saddens me deeply but it pisses me off like hell

40

Elders are Complicit with WT Society in Child Abuse Scandals- Gonzalo Campos Case

by flipper in

of course, most of us realize this.

however sometimes even on this board sometimes threads have stated that the jw elders have been occasionally painted as the " fall guys " who take the rap for the wt society leaders - which of course is true - to a degree.

however- that being said , many times elders have failed to protect - or even have failed to advocate for child abuse victims when it has been within their power to do so.

flipper

JHINE- Interesting what you say about the Church of England being required by law to report child abuse to the police if a victim comes to them with an offense. I wish the laws here in the U.S. made it MORE of a mandatory reporting issue in ALL 50 states !

PUNK OF NICE- Exactly. WT Society is not great at all- in fact- they are probably one of the worst offenders of the many religious organizations who don't come clean about child abuse crimes being committed within the walls of secrecy within their organization. Another secretive organization which hides it's crimes is the Scientology religion. Thus the reason for the recent expose documentary on HBO called " going Clear " exposing Scientology. We need one of those documentaries BIG TIME exposing the WT Society definitely

40

Elders are Complicit with WT Society in Child Abuse Scandals- Gonzalo Campos Case

by flipper in

of course, most of us realize this.

however sometimes even on this board sometimes threads have stated that the jw elders have been occasionally painted as the " fall guys " who take the rap for the wt society leaders - which of course is true - to a degree.

however- that being said , many times elders have failed to protect - or even have failed to advocate for child abuse victims when it has been within their power to do so.

flipper

Thanks for all the replies ! I appreciate it. Got back from work awhile ago so I have time to reply now.

JHINE- Lisa Rose's statement was accurate- if just Campos the molester had confessed to the elders it would have been a clergy penitent privilege due to pastoral confession- but once the victim Lopez and his mother brought it to the elders it should have been reported to police. And as On The Way Out states the WT Society LOSES the clergy confidentiality once they blab it across the United States to the WT legal department and service committee - it ceases to be confidential anymore and ethics and justice require WT elders to report it to police. Especially in California as it IS a reporting state. As are many other states within the United States.

DRIVING FORCE- Yeah, I've been thinking more and more about the Stockholm Syndrome thing applying to many JW's the longer I've been out of the organization ( which is almost 12 years now ) because the elders are mind controlled to be SO complicit in upholding ANY decision out of WT legal - even if it's unethical, inhumane, or downright illegal.

STILL TOTALLY ADD- Thanks for sharing that conversation you had with the C.O. when you told him about all the child abuse cases you were aware of. I bet his face turned pale. It's amazing how quickly they will try to change the subject once we bring up the child abuse scandals because it causes them such cognizant dissonance that their brains get fried or overloaded as it shakes their perfect little world view of how WT leaders and elders are SUPPOSED to be as opposed to what they REALLY are doing and hiding behind the scenes. As you state if the WT Society had just faced this child abuse thing head on and apologized admitting error as the Catholic Church did- perhaps people wouldn't be in such an uproar about it- but the maddening thing about WT leaders is their unwillingness to even admit FAULT at all ! So it pisses all of us off even more as well as pisses off child abuse victims and their families who are now out for WT leaders heads on a platter. But WT leaders are TOO arrogant to ever admit fault. I don't see that happening any time in our lifetime.

ON THE WAY OUT- Exactly, I agree elders are totally mind controlled by the WT Society's instructions to elders - yet- that being said they are still complicit and guilty in instances like the Lopez molestation where for YEARS these elders knew Campos was molesting more children and they still appointed him as an elder while he was doing these crimes. Which is aiding and abetting a felony crime. Mind controlled or not. If even ONE of those 3 elders had a shred of conscience during those years and years where 9 more children got molested - it would have put a stop to Campos molesting more kids if one elder went to police. So that's what my point is - is that the elders are complicit with the WT Society in covering up crimes such as child abuse- per the court report. They are just as guilty.

Like yourself - I agree that the WT Society should make it MANDATORY for elders to first report child abuse to the police - THEN report it to WT legal. They have it backwards- they are putting the carriage before the horse. And therefore WT leaders set themselves up for more of theses child abuse lawsuits to come streaming in to them from victims. WT leaders are too prideful to change or listen to ANYBODY else's advice. So I don't see this changing anytime soon.

LISAROSE- Good points you make about the clergy penitent privilege not applying in this Campos case as it was not confidential from the get-go. The victim and his mom approached the elders, then the elders sent all the information to WT legal and the WT Service committee- that blows the confidentiality clause right there. As you state- it's interesting that the WT Society keeps records of all these 23,000 pedophiles and all the judicial congregation committee cases in dealing with JW molesters- but the WT legal department refused to turn over those documents in this particular court case and would not obey the laws of the court to do so. Thus they paid out 13.5 million $$$$ to Lopez . WT leaders are a bunch of classless idiots.

HEAVEN- Thanks for sharing the discussion you had with your dad about WT child abuse. It is incredible how so many JW's STILL to this day are not aware of how huge the child abuse problem is within the WT organization. WT Society has done a good job of sweeping it under the rug like comments made by Stephen Lett calling it " ridiculous " that people would say they put children in danger of child abuse. So Stockholm Syndrome mind controlled JW's lap those comments up like kittens lapping up cream so they won't have to face reality. Then they stick their heads back in the sand and go about their business. Pretty weird if you ask me.

PUNK OF NICE- Exactly, I agree. WT leaders protect these perverts WAY too much. It does make you wonder who at the top is involved in this child abuse mess . There were rumors about Jaracz when he was alive, then Chitty and Greenlees of course, but once again those allegations were hushed up really quickly and some of these guys were shipped out on special assignments to different countries or locations to get them out of the " molester limelight " - I know this for a fact as I've talked to some who had first hand information on it. But I keep my sources confidential for obvious reasons. But as you stated it's a corporation and the organization needs come first- not individual JW needs - and if that means trampling upon the rights of molested children- the WT leaders views are " oh well ". Disgusting

40

Elders are Complicit with WT Society in Child Abuse Scandals- Gonzalo Campos Case

by flipper in

of course, most of us realize this.

however sometimes even on this board sometimes threads have stated that the jw elders have been occasionally painted as the " fall guys " who take the rap for the wt society leaders - which of course is true - to a degree.

however- that being said , many times elders have failed to protect - or even have failed to advocate for child abuse victims when it has been within their power to do so.

flipper

DRIVING FORCE- Good point you make. The comment this " brother " made to you about trusting what the WT Society leaders do regarding child abuse- is the same view that a lot of JW's have because they are mind controlled to believe in EVERYTHING the GB tells them. They are TOO trusting of WT leaders who in my opinion could lead JW's to their death someday by instructing JW's to jump off of cliffs- kind of like Jim Jones. Once cult members are THIS controlled where they identify with their captors ( WT Society) it's like the Stockholm Syndrome where they make excuses for criminal conduct and actions of their leaders. I feel that most of the 8 million JW's worldwide do this with their leaders. They have Stockholm Syndrome - and they don't even know it

40

Elders are Complicit with WT Society in Child Abuse Scandals- Gonzalo Campos Case

by flipper in

of course, most of us realize this.

however sometimes even on this board sometimes threads have stated that the jw elders have been occasionally painted as the " fall guys " who take the rap for the wt society leaders - which of course is true - to a degree.

however- that being said , many times elders have failed to protect - or even have failed to advocate for child abuse victims when it has been within their power to do so.

flipper

FINKELSTEIN- Exactly. WT Society has always been about image first, morals second or none at all.

TRUTHSEEKERIAM- This is the same child abuse case you are thinking of that cost the WT Society 13.5 million $$$$ for not revealing documents and information about their child abusers within the organization to the San Diego courts, yes. The name of the molested person is Gilbert Lopez, not Jose Lopez in this particular case. This made lots of news during the winter and early 2015. As you state- the priority of the WT Society AND elders is to keep ANY talk or exposing of child abuse within the JW organization totally quiet. They do not want this information getting out. Pretty disgusting what lengths they will go to in order to make sure that happens.

CRAZYGUY- Yes, this case is in California and yes , California IS a mandatory reporting state where pastors, clergy, and elders of any religion ARE required to report child abuse cases to police authorities. So once again WT Society AND the local San Diego elders dropped the ball and were irresponsible in not reporting the child abuse of Gilbert Lopez. And due to that fact Campos his child molester was NOT convicted in time and 9 total children were molested by him . WT Society produces criminal negligence even in their own elder bodies. It's sick. They need to answer for this. And they will pay for it

40

Elders are Complicit with WT Society in Child Abuse Scandals- Gonzalo Campos Case

by flipper in

of course, most of us realize this.

however sometimes even on this board sometimes threads have stated that the jw elders have been occasionally painted as the " fall guys " who take the rap for the wt society leaders - which of course is true - to a degree.

however- that being said , many times elders have failed to protect - or even have failed to advocate for child abuse victims when it has been within their power to do so.

flipper

Of course, most of us realize this. However sometimes even on this board sometimes threads have stated that the JW elders have been occasionally painted as the " fall guys " who take the rap for the WT Society leaders - which of course is true - to a degree.

However- that being said , many times elders have failed to protect - or even have failed to advocate for child abuse victims when it has been within their power to do so. I was sent the PDF file from court documents awhile back regarding the child abuse victim Gilbert Lopez's trial against Gonzalo Campos the elder who molested him. I felt it important to reveal some of this information so as to give a more complete understanding of what happened in this particular court case.

Notice this quote regarding the elders knowledge of Campos's child abuse activity AFTER Lopez had sought help with those San Diego elders. This is Lopez attorney Zalkin's opening statement - It states, " As Socorro ( victim Lopez's mother ) feared , the elders took no action in 1986. Campos was not restricted or expelled. The congregation was not warned. The body of elders in charge of Campos had the knowledge and power to stop him from hurting children, and they didn't. They were more concerned about avoiding scandal than they were about protecting children . Their conduct was irresponsible and reprehensible. "

It continues, " As a result of the choices made by the people that Watchtower put in charge of the congregation , Campos ravaged at least four more children - that we know of - over the next nine years. This makes a total of nine known victims of Campos. In fact, despite the knowledge they had about the dangers of keeping Campos in their congregations, he was actually elevated up the chain in the organization to a position as elder himself while he was sexually abusing children in a successor congregation. All of this occurred under a code of silence imposed by the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses and strictly enforced by the Watchtower. "

It continues, " As stated by a letter regarding Gonzalo Campos which was signed by three elders on July 24, 1999 and addressed to Watchtower Service Department : " The community does not know of all this and there was no publicity about this. Everything took place in the congregation and because of that he was not prosecuted. " In other words, Watchtower's agents in Linda Vista congregation were extremely successful in suppressing knowledge of Campos' molestation of children ; thereby providing the secrecy needed so Campos could keep adding to his list of victims. "

So in spite of the WT Society's recent claim that they have " clergy penitent privilege " - this does NOT negate the fact that WT Society appointed elders HAVE been negligent in NOT reporting child molesters to police authorities - thereby ENABLING molesters like Gonzalo Campos to CONTINUE molesting multiple children- in this case NINE children total- committing more crimes due to elders not reporting child molestation to police. And this went on for YEARS.

If this was just an isolated case- a person may say, " O.K. someone dropped the ball " - but this story has been repeated hundreds if not thousands of times with Jehovah's Witness children being victimized by elders and the WT Society's desire to keep child abuse " in-house " so as to not reproach " Jehovah's name " - which in reality when translated means - don't reproach " WT Society's name " and it's organizational leaders.

So the story continues. It will keep continuing until WT Society changes it's horrid child abuse reporting policies. Don't count on it. WT leaders main priority is keeping " information control " over JW's and non-JW's so as to not have even more child abuse skeletons falling out of the closet. Because that would affect WT Society's other bottom line- the making of $$$$$ millions into billions $$$$$$$ .

After I've read more of this Campos Case court proceedings I will post more threads soon on it- however this is a start to give you insight regarding some information you might not have read in the media news. As always I look forward to your views and opinions. Feel free to share please. Take care, Peace out, Mr. Flipper

27

Why don't people in the US, UK or Euro-Citizens know anything about Jehovah's Witness Pedophile Issues and lawsuits?

by MagicMItchJensen in

i know you all are aware of how little knowledge people have about jehovah's witnesses and topics men like bob bowen and women like barbara anderson tried to raise the level of public awareness that "the jehovah witness coming to your door might be a pedophile or child molester!

" what's gone wrong, has the society outsmarted the media or do people not really care what happens to young children?

if you took a survey trying to ascertain how many people walking through the grocery store, a target or upper class stores nordstroms, your going to be shocked how little people know.. if it's about the catholic church, those numbers shot through the ceiling, is this because there is no problem in the new world watchtower order or their better at damage control?

flipper

MITCH- Good thread. We do live in a world where people minimize child abuse and people generally give religion a " get out of jail free " card and bury their heads in the sand like ostriches because if they were to face the facts and reality of it- they'd discover that too many of the " elders ", " priests ", " fathers " , " bishops " - or others holding positions of power are criminally abusing that power by the molesting of children - and to face that fact puts a crimp in religious people's world view.

So it's a matter of open minded people like us individually talking to JW's and non-JW's and spreading the word about WT Society criminal child abuse. It comes down to that. If you see JW's standing at their JW carts- go talk with them about WT child abuse. Show them the ABC News Nightline news releases or the PBS Newshour news releases , print them off the computer links. If good people stand by and do nothing- evil will prevail. Even when good people DO something evil prevails - but not as much because the public gets INFORMED and ACCESS to information is given. So it's not a total loss. It's a gain of informing people. My 2 cents in how I see this

67

'Conti' Court decision secures Watchtower's Policy of confidentiality

by telemetry11 in

the court on the rule of confidentiality of penitential communications and evidentiary privilege--.. decision reads:.

"the law generally protects the confidentiality of communications with clergy like those of kendrick to the elders here.".

"if the person has a constitutional right to independence in making religious choices, the recognition of an evidentiary privilege is an apt means of protecting that autonomy.

flipper

TELMETRY- " Conti's court decision secures Watchtower's Policy of Confidentiality " .

No it doesn't. Not in the least. Kendrick's child abuse of various victims was NEVER held in " confidentiality " by the WT Society with just the elders within his congregation as communications with WT legal and the headquarters are documented within court documents - many of those communications of which I even have on PDF files on my computer. All along the way during these communications the WT Society and the elders dropped the ball and failed to protect not only Candace Conti, but further victims which Kendrick DID go on to molest.

Look- this Conti thing is NOT over by any stretch of the imagination. WT Society has already lost in having to pay out money to her AND the bad publicity that aired on PBS Newshour and ABC News Nightline each in 10 minute snippets describing in detail what went on regarding WT Society negligence towards Conti. And Kendrick and his wife assisted with the negative judgments towards the WT Society because they looked like " dildo brains " in their trying to excuse his criminal behavior on nationwide network T.V. The court of public opinion and HOW that public opinion spreads across the Internet is MUCH stronger than any seemingly evasive measures the WT Society tries to pull off - whether behind closed courtroom doors, or who is paying who off - judges, defendants, plaintiffs - whoever- it doesn't matter- the court of public opinion WILL prevail and it will find the WT Society criminally negligent not only for protecting child molesters, but the deaths of innocent children who are refused blood transfusions. So pick whatever poison you want- WT Society is, has been, and appears like they always WILL be criminally negligent. They just don't care about ANY victims of their crimes.

If WT wants to take it to the Supreme Court- fine- but the cows have left the barn and the gates have burst loose and more of these child abuse cases WILL make the media and expose the criminality of the WT Society, and that damage will do more in and of itself than the millions WT has to pay out

67

'Conti' Court decision secures Watchtower's Policy of confidentiality

by telemetry11 in

the court on the rule of confidentiality of penitential communications and evidentiary privilege--.. decision reads:.

"the law generally protects the confidentiality of communications with clergy like those of kendrick to the elders here.".

"if the person has a constitutional right to independence in making religious choices, the recognition of an evidentiary privilege is an apt means of protecting that autonomy.

flipper

TRUTHSEEKERIAM hit the nail on the head. The Conti decision had NOTHING to do whatsoever with the 13.5 million judgment in the Lopez trial. The courts whacked the WT Society over the head with that penalty for refusing to hand over court requested documents about their child abuse policies AND their list of child molesters within their organization. AND the fact that Gerrit Losch refused to testify for the WT Society when the courts requested him to do so. So WT Society actually was in contempt of court for refusing to cooperate. So they got fined.

And as Truthseekeriam stated GB member Stephen Lett actually lied on JW.org T.V. when denying that the WT Society IS negligent and permissive towards pedophiles. He was just using JW.org as a convenient marketing tool to exploit and dilute the real truth of what's going on in order to calm down or put aside any " fears " or " concerns " JW's may have due to what's being broadcast on network news or the Internet concerning the reality of WT child abuse negligence. It's called " saving face ". Peace out, Mr. Flipper

46

I had breakfast with 50+ JWs on Sunday

by zimunzucz in

jw
friends

we pulled into a hotel parking lot saturday around 6pm on the return leg of a wonderful family vacation to new england - an then fate stepped in---a man in a suit got out of a car with the rest of a picture perfect family.

i immediately noticed all the name tags--- and my blood pressure spiked 50pts- damn!!

i was booked in a 4 story hotel full of jws-- the only time they took off the name tags was in the swimming pool- they were so proud of themselves.. at 6:30 am the hot water went cold in the wife's shower- what do you expect on the 4th floor when a herd of jws is trying to get ready at the same time?

flipper

ZIM- Just freaking fantastic ! Well done indeed ! As you mentioned you just never know how many of those JW teenagers will look up JWFacts on line and bolt for freedom of mind. The more of us that do this- the more people WILL be informed