neverendingjourney

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Posts by neverendingjourney

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  68

  Why would anyone choose to support Jehovah’s Witnesses?

  by Half banana in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what is the point of supporting a belief which began as a bronze age ox-headed idol called yahweh... in a religion designed for illiterate peasants now appropriated by a money-driven cult with a one hundred and forty six year unbroken record of total failure of its bible based predictions?.

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  neverendingjourney

  Some people just don't care if their religion is true or stupid, or if their policies are right or wrong, or even if their policies are just plain cruel. They just don't care if their religion's policies cause suffering and death. They just don't care if their religious leaders lie or what they do with donated money. They don't care if abuse victims are treated like sinners and abusers are protected by the silence of the elders. They just don't care. They're happy, so that makes it all ok.

  I couldn't have said it better myself, honestly. You've distilled it down to its very essence in a few short sentences. Bravo.
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  68

  Why would anyone choose to support Jehovah’s Witnesses?

  by Half banana in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what is the point of supporting a belief which began as a bronze age ox-headed idol called yahweh... in a religion designed for illiterate peasants now appropriated by a money-driven cult with a one hundred and forty six year unbroken record of total failure of its bible based predictions?.

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  neverendingjourney

  Now as to answer your "real question". The ancient Jewish faith was flawed but they were the chosen nation. No doubt surrounding nations thought them crazy and they probably warned their young ones of pitfalls. So the comparison to Christendom could very well fit today.

  Here's the problem. If all religions are flawed, this reasoning will prevent people from changing beliefs.

  Someone who's born a Mormon, for instance, would not make a change to the JWs because while his religion might be flawed, so are the Witnesses. It's the "where shall we go?" fallacy. Absent evidence of a lack of flaws in another group, the person will stay in their current group assuming it's the "chosen religion."

  And it assumes there is such a thing as a "God's people" or a "chosen nation" to begin with.

  Going back to your example. Maybe the ancient Jews made up a religion just like every ancient group of peoples did. Maybe Yahweh was just a mythical as Zeus, Krishna or Ra. Maybe the Jews were crazy and the surrounding nations were right to warn their young ones.
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  68

  Why would anyone choose to support Jehovah’s Witnesses?

  by Half banana in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what is the point of supporting a belief which began as a bronze age ox-headed idol called yahweh... in a religion designed for illiterate peasants now appropriated by a money-driven cult with a one hundred and forty six year unbroken record of total failure of its bible based predictions?.

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  neverendingjourney

  So far nothing has moved me enough here to "make me an unbeliever". Thank you for your passionate effort though.

  Nah, I don't really care whether you believe. Lots of people on this forum obviously do. That's their right just as it's your right to defend the Witnesses.

  I wasted too much of my life trying to change people's beliefs. I'm just kind of over it on a personal level, to be honest.

  The facts are out there. Surely you've been exposed to them being on this forum. There is no rational defense of this religion to be offered. Yet some people need belief to help make sense of the world. To each his own.

  Just don't pee down my leg and tell me it's raining.
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  68

  Why would anyone choose to support Jehovah’s Witnesses?

  by Half banana in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what is the point of supporting a belief which began as a bronze age ox-headed idol called yahweh... in a religion designed for illiterate peasants now appropriated by a money-driven cult with a one hundred and forty six year unbroken record of total failure of its bible based predictions?.

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  neverendingjourney

  If I hold a diamond to the light I see the flaws. That doesn't mean it's not a diamond.

  I hate, hate, HATE that illustration. Although to be honest, I hadn't given it any thought in years. It was oft-repeated during my time with the JWs.

  Why do I hate it so much? Because it's rhetorical nonsense designed to distract and deflect from the real question.

  For instance:

  See flaws in JWdom? Well, that's just like flaws on a diamond that cannot be seen with an unaided eye. It's still a diamond.

  See flaws in Chirstendom? Well, that's just like having a drop of poison in your morning tea. Certainly, you wouldn't drink it!

  Manipulative, dishonest, devious horse shit designed to beat up the emotionally vulnerable and flip the argument back on them. The problem isn't the glaring flaws in the religion. The problem is with you for bringing it up in the first place.
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  30

  Quality of JW teaching from elders

  by sir82 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there was a recent thread on the "quality" of converts to jws in recent years.

  it wasn't a pretty picture, based on the thread contents.. well, the lack of depth isn't restricted to new converts.. in our clam this week, one of the principal points for review was this:.

  ne 1:1; 2:1—why can we conclude that “the 20thyear” mentioned at nehemiah 1:1 and 2:1 is countedfrom the same starting point?

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  neverendingjourney

  The acorn (elders) doesn't fall far from the tree (WT leadership). Buffoonery has always been an intimate part of the the JW fabric.

  If the organs [of your body] are diseased, heal them by correcting your diet. Avoid the use of aluminum cooking utensils and alum baking powders as they are injurious to your health, poisoning your blood stream... Sleep on the right side or flat on your back, with the head toward the north so as to get benefit of the earth’s magnetic currents. Avoid serum inoculations as they pollute the blood stream with their filthy pus.... Stop chewing gum, as you need the saliva for your food.

  The Golden Age, Nov. 12, 1929, p. 107.

  The unburied dead, "those slain by Jehovah," will be so enormously many that even the carrion birds and scavenging wild beasts could never take care of their consumption. The burial of even what remains after these lower creatures have their fill would be stupendous. Doubtless the Almighty God will use some highly scientific means, whether including antimatter or not, to dispose of the surplus of decaying bodies in a speedy and sanitary way

  The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah" -- How? (book, 1971) pp. 376-377
  
  
  
  
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  8

  Watching from the outside - and a question at the end if TL;DR

  by unfamiliar in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i grew up in a jw family.

  i was the youngest, and i never really felt like my questions were answered in a satisfying way, so i kind of gradually faded and i was thankfully never baptized (hooray for me).

  i kept going to family study time until i was about 27 (!

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  neverendingjourney

  From the WT book "Children" published in 1941, pgs. 366-367:

  Armageddon is surely near, and during that time the Lord will clean off the earth all that is disagreeable. Then, by His grace we shall begin our life with a greater vision, and prolonged joy...From now on we shall have our heart devotion fixed on the THEOCRACY knowing that soon we shall journey forever together on the earth...We can well defer our marriage until lasting peace comes to the earth. Now we must add nothing to our burdens, but be free and equipped to serve the Lord...Eunice, my decision is made. I shall shun politics, religion, and commerce, and I shall avoid the cities...Our present duty is plain. We must now be witnesses to the name of Jehovah.

  A 10 year old child reading that book would now be in his or her mid 80s.
  
  
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  38

  Honestly, Did Jehovah's Witnesses Do Anything POSITIVE For You?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was raised as a witness and am very thankful that i am out.

  having said that, i think my upbringing produced positive qualities in me.

  do you believe that anything positive came from your being a witness?

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  neverendingjourney

  As others have mentioned, there's a lot more to this type of question than might meet the eye.

  "Did being in prison do anything positive for you?" "Yes, it provided me three square meals a day."

  Obviously, there's more to it than that.

  There were some positive aspects of being raised a JW. My family fit the demographic profile of most recently-converted JWs in Texas: recent immigrants, lonely, poorly-educated, naive. We lived in a gang-infested area of town. My mom took the JW teachings to heart and became a Nazi about my not having friendships with "worldly" kids.

  It's possible I would have otherwise gotten caught up in the wrong crowd and made some mistakes that would have permanently affected the trajectory of my life (criminal activity, getting a girl pregnant in my teens, etc.). It's impossible to know for certain.

  Better questions to ask, though, are: On balance was the JW experience a positive one or a negative one? Might my parents have found more productive ways to insulate me from the dangers of growing up poor?

  The fact that there might have been some positive aspects to JW life doesn't tell us much in and of itself.
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  73

  Witnesses killed my friend today.

  by WasOnceBlind in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  today has been a horrible day.

  what began as a day of joy finding out that one of my lifelong friends had her baby, turned into a nightmare when her brother called me to let me know she had passed away after birth.

  i was in shock and didn't ask how.

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  neverendingjourney

  Condolences. I wish I had more comforting words to share with you. It's a real shame this happened.
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  6

  windows 10

  by zeb in

  1. social
  2. current

  do i ever learn!

  that when they say this is an 'improved' model it never is!.

  i downloaded windows 10 and it wiped out my emails and the email account... oh joy.. i have since removed the 10. arrgh!

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  neverendingjourney

  My desktop installed a bunch of Windows 10 updates over the weekend and as far as I can tell it killed my computer.

  It keeps booting up in safe mode. I spent a few hours over the weekend trying to fix the problem, but I gave up. I can't get it to boot up properly.
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  27

  "Crises of Conscience"

  by Olivia Wilde in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i just finished reading chapters 11-12 of raymond franz, crises of conscience & i must admit, i am pretty strong person, however the way ed dunlap & ray franz were treated left me crying, i had tears rolling done my eyes driving home from work on friday... & how ed was kicked out by wt, left me feel soo disgusted & outraged.... it was very obvious he needed to stay at bethel because of his age & medical conditions but i admired he didn't compromise his conscious, it's sickening to me how cold & callous these men can treat a christian after all his service.... & of course ray franz situation was no exception either, the witch hunt they did to get him out was, well, there's just isnt enough adjectives to describe their disgusting motives against him... he was 59 yrs old trying to make a honest living with his wife & for them to go after him was devious & demon like.... i'm soo grateful i came across this book & i wished i had much much sooner.... i know god will reward both ed dunlap & franz plus many many more who have been unjustly & unchristian like treated during that time & this time, sooo sickening.....i still feel very much upset & emotional over the whole thing .... i never met any of them & then yet i feel deep christian love for them......

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  neverendingjourney

  @Nathan Natas

  Are you off your meds?