just released from the canadian press.
hawk.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/020924/6/p5hm.html.
Thanks everyone for all of the continuing updates.
Big ups to hawkaw for getting and keeping this in the media's eye. Great stuff.
Thanks to those who are helping just a bit behind the scenes.
Most of all, thank you Vicki for having the guts to get this case up in front of a Judge.
Win or lose Vicki, this case has already won. In some ways you might not yet imagine.
Hang in there, Vicki and Scott.
Hang the Watchtower.
Eric
i was outraged when i read what a friend of ours was given him by 2 jws yesterday when he asked them the question about the child molestation issue.
i can't belive the jws have the guts to pass this stuff out.
the people we were with at lunch today all looked at it and was replused at the wt's reply.. what do you think?.
>IDEA<
If the Governing Body mean what they are saying with this really swell new policy, wouldn't they act immediately to turn over all of THEIR files pertaining to states that require reporting forthwith?
After all, it IS what they say is THEIR new policy. Surely they do not expect local BOE's to follow a policy from which they would consider themselves exempt?
I would love to see a reporter, armed with the WBTS's official policy ask a JW PR flack like J.R. Brown when the WBTS headquarters will follow its own procedure and provide police or other authorized investigative bodies with information on perpetrators of child abuse that they already have.
According to their own policy, in states that require reporting, they have to get on with it, don't they?
Eric
most of us have experienced the frustration of trying to convince a friend or relative that the wts is not what it claims: an organisation backed by 'god'.. of course, it is very difficult to prove a negative and a real die-hard believer will explain-away any evidence of wrongdoing by the org.
as they are trained to do so well.. i have found it good to reverse the question and ask them:.
"what would the wts have to do to convince you that it wasn't god's organisation?".
Simon,
I asked my mother this very question a little over ten years ago.
My mother's response: Even if they (the WBTS) are totally wrong, totally off the track, I love Jehovah, I've dedicated my life to serving Jehovah, and preaching His message as a witness of Jehovah is the best way I know how.
Me: Could you or anyone else come to understand God's message without the Watchtower?
Mom: (Thinking, a bit) Yes, because all scripture is inspired and good for setting things straight.
Me: So if the Watchtower is off the track, you could just preach the Bible, right Mom?
Mom: But it's the Watchtower that brought me and so many others to this understanding...
...And on and on it went, circularly.
Of course, then I had some improperly made quotes the WBTS had made in it's "Evolution book" and the 1975 fiasco to highlight as evidence of being "off the track" and now there is much more powerful stuff that has been brought to light. But I won't be bothering my parents with this new info. All I will get for my trouble is to be moved from the "sad, faithless son/where did we go wrong" category to the "evil, apostate, devil controlled son/avoid at all cost" category. I've already spent time in the latter category and it took years and some constructive forgetfulness on the part of both parties to go back to the former.
Now, let's see...how can I be of more help to the Silentlambs cause?
Eric
i was outraged when i read what a friend of ours was given him by 2 jws yesterday when he asked them the question about the child molestation issue.
i can't belive the jws have the guts to pass this stuff out.
the people we were with at lunch today all looked at it and was replused at the wt's reply.. what do you think?.
Ephanyminitas,
Oh yes, that's the official poop all right. http://www.jw-media.org/releases/bg_molestation.htm
They think this is a great policy. They don't get it at all, do they?
Eric
it has been brought to my attention that there may be a major scandal working in the billings montana area.
it involves more than ten elders in a motel room at the district convention this summer and 14-16 year old girls.
my information source says there is more to come with possible charges being filed, but key jw's work for social services there and are involved in the investigation.
og,
It seems pretty clear to this reader that Bill has put this up NOT AS information but as a REQUEST FOR any information, IF such corroborating information exists.
If it turns out that this situation never gets corroborated and stays in the realm of hearsay, how is it that Bill's reputation will be damaged by his simply asking for information?
Eric
hi everyone, something has been on my mind lately and i would really appreciate some comments.
i've posted a few topic discussions on my story as a dub, recent dicoveries of wt tampering with the bible translations they use and the subsequent emotions that came from learning that so many things i was taught growing up are lies, and about visiting various churches (chuck swindoll etc).
here's what has been on mind the last few days.
Lin,
Here is why you have a problem:
Your Nose>>Other People's Business.
Here is how to solve your problem:
Your Nose<<----------------------------------------------------->>Other People's Business.
See how easy?
Eric
i can't believe no has posted any of this stuff.
vicki was on cbc in toronto and other parts of ontario again last night.
she creamed them.
And, exactly, what were the child molester's "acts befitting repentance" at that time?
Waiting,
Why, "fruitages of the Spirit", of course. Which Mr. Brown apparently can read, by observing someone's meeting attendance, and involvement field service and other "Theocratic activities". Just like every other penny-ante Brooklyn-trained, greek/aramaic spouting, imagines-himself-a-scholar, arrogant spiritual shephard that the JW's push out of their cookie-cutter.
Mr. Mark on cross forced Brown to redefine the word "theocratic" into the pablum expression the JW's all accept, and confronted Brown with his own testimony of the stock convoluted, memorized JW definition of "porneia" with the simple question: "Doesn't it simply mean filth?" And Brown, with nowhere left to go but agree with his accuser, launched back into the stock convoluted, memorized JW definition of "porneia".
This sort of thing is not being lost on this Judge. I do believe her right eyebrow ascends when she is hearing something that doesn't jive with what she has previously heard.
On Brown's part, I noticed he used 'gestures for emphasis' quite well, but when under stress his right hand goes into his lap while his left hand pulls on his left facial cheek muscles, not his jowls but up on his cheek. Just an observation.
------------------------
It was really great to meet most everyone involved in bringing this trial so much media coverage. Hawkaw, you are doing such a great job that maybe nobody wants to bring a lesser effort to the party. It might feel a bit like standing in the background of the camera of Vicki's interview and waving.
The day decided something for me, in that after talking with the Andersons, and listening to Dr. Penton, I am convinced that the only way to go after the hidden files begins with media exposure, continues with trials in courts of law and results with sufficent cause for a proper investigation.
Hang in there, Vicki. Hang in there, Scott.
Hang the WTBS, and their self-protective deceit.
Eric
i am saddened to report barb anderson and dr. james penton will not testify at the trial.. however, even better.
penton wrote a lengthy letter and barb did a 30 page document as well.. both documents have been accepted into evidence by the judge and will be reviewed by the judge as part of her written decision.
this means the documents will not undergo cross-examination which is a good thing.. so if you ask me - a partial victory.. there is more happening that i cannot discuss that is going vicki's way - stunning stuff actually.
hawkaw,
As I understand it, it is a shame that Penton and Anderson's testimony was introduced in a way that could be successfully attacked on a procedural technicality by the WT lawyers. In a jury case this is exactly the sort of thing that can linger and play on a jury's collective mind.
But we're dealing with a Judge here and she, while having to rule on the letter of the law, won't lay any doubt on Vicki Boer for that.
Monday is still a go for me, I will be down at the courthouse early, and I look forward to meeting you.
Eric
p.s. We both have our e-mail locked, and likely for the same reason, spam avoidance. E-mail me, if you see fit, at [email protected]
sheldon longsworth maintains that he doesn't recall telling vicki boer to confront her abusive father.
yet he told her to tell her father to go to the local elders.
wonder how she was to do that without confronting him?.
hawkaw,
I greatly appreciate your hard work in publicizing this trial, here and in many other threads. It is so important that the press be interested in this trial and to be printing their stories. Great work, hawk.
I am currently working hard to clear my schedule to be able to attend one day of the proceedings and to show my support. I am going to make it there Monday, Sept. 16. Is the courtroom seating difficult? I know I need to be there early but do I need to reserve a place in advance?
I am asking this of you hawk, because you seem to be speaking about this trial from a perspective of personal presence. Anyone else reading this with relevant info please feel free to chime in.
Eric
in my area hockey is mentioned and known so little, that you would be hard pressed to find any sports memorabilia.
none of the schools play it, and the nearest team is over 8 hours away.
the local news does not even broadcast the scores, and you would have a hard time finding one person in town who knows who the stanley cup was won by last year.
When did Oregon get eight hours away from Vancouver?
And don't make me tell you about NHL players from Oregon.
Are you telling me the newspapers in Portland have no NHL coverage? None?
I'm willing to bet I can find an amature hockey team fifty miles from you.
And you're still the best Hockey player in all of Romania.
Not that it can possibly matter.
Eric
