I got educated about it, zeb. From some few remarks l read of Turks the ANZAC drew admiration from them for their bravery and grit. But what a loss. A tragedy.
humbled
JoinedPosts by humbled
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A.N.Z.A.C. Day 25th APRIL
by zeb inthe 25th april is the day australia and new zealand remember their war dead.. on the 25th april 1915 troops from many nations including australian and new zealanders landed on the shores of turkey.
the anzac forces at a place called gallipoli or galliboli by the turkish people.. the concept was to land move inland attack constantinople and there by force turkey out of the war (1914-1918) and bring it too a swift end.
the whole operation was a monumental stuff up with the anzacs being landed in the wrong place up against steep cliffs.
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Good Guys VS Bad Guys: Facts Nobody Wants to KNow
by TerryWalstrom infacts we don't want to know.
the purpose of war is to kill humans.. .
which humans?.
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humbled
From The Guardian June 19,2017
“Paul, an anti-interventionist Republican pushing the resolution(to require congress to vote on -what amounts to-war), railed against the senators who were more concerned about the jobs the weapons manufacturers could generate than the lives of Yemeni children. “I am embarrassed that people are talking about making a buck while 17 million people are threatened with famine,” he said.
He didn’t mention that many of the senators, Democrats and Republicans alike, have taken tens of thousands of dollars in campaign contributions from the same corporations benefitting from the sales.” -
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Good Guys VS Bad Guys: Facts Nobody Wants to KNow
by TerryWalstrom infacts we don't want to know.
the purpose of war is to kill humans.. .
which humans?.
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humbled
Luhe- sorry for a huge copy and paste. But here is why we can’t let the industrial military complex run the world
We're in an era where financial and political transactions are far too sophisticated and subtle for us to pull out the "War Profiteering" label and have it stick.
Let's call it what it is: Crony Capitalism
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I agree with the facts of Gary Teal's response, if not the analysis.
Cheney, as former CEO of Halliburton, did have a severance package which included a set amount in deferred cash compensation, as will as over 400,000 shares in stock options. This is common practice for CEOs of major corporations, whether or not they are about to be vice president.
When he became vice president, Cheney was not legally required to sever his financial interests with Halliburton (the Vice President is not subject to conflict of interest regulations). However, it'd be bad form (and a media nightmare) to keep these direct ties.
In an attempt to avoid the appearance of a conflict, Cheney signed a legal agreement stating that all post-tax benefits received from exercising the stock options would be donated to charity. (In addition to the 20% going to Capital Partners for Education, as mentioned by Gary; 40% would go to George Washington University's medical faculty and 40% to the University of Wyoming). It also said that he would not take a tax deduction for these charitable contributions.
While it's possible that altruism was one of the motivating factors behind purchasing insurance guaranteeing the charity would receive the income, regardless of whether Halliburton was solvent -- More likely the primarily motivating factor was in closing any perceived loopholes in the "conflict of interest" case: no matter what events happened later (or what events Cheney might cause to happen later), X amount of money was guaranteed to go to Y causes.**
In short, this was very carefully crafted to ensure that "not a penny" went directly from Halliburton into Cheney's pockets.
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I also agree with the facts of Christopher Rodreguez's response, if not the analysis.
While Cheney didn't make anything off of Halliburton due to the occupation of Iraq, as Christopher outlines Halliburton and KBR certainly made out quite well thanks to the policies of the Bush Administration and Cheney's influence in energy and defense policy.
In fact, the whole military/defense and energy sectors made out quite well due to Iraq war and post-war reconstruction contracts.
Anyone who is an executive in, who is heavily invested in, or who is otherwise affiliated with the private/political revolving door in the defense sector personally profited. This includes Cheney -- as well as members of Cheney's family, his business associates, executives at Halliburton, their families, their business associates ... and so on and so on. This isn't "evil" -- it's "just business and politics."
As is usually the case, the exact amount of profit depends on the level of wealth invested, and the contacts available to leverage for ... political donations, new business contracts, board seats, etc.
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I have no love for Cheney. But trying to connect the dots from Cheney ... Direct Cash Profit is a no-go.
Plenty of people, with varying levels of direct and indirect political influence, profited from the wars: Republicans, Democrats, lobbyists, contractors, corporate fat cats. It's not a simple sound-byte super-villain scenario. Cheney is the easiest-to-spot target -- but he's playing by the rules of a much bigger game that started long before he entered the scene.
It's a layer of corruption deeply embedded within our government, that allows (and expects) wealthy corporate-connected folks look out for the interests and profits of their wealthy corporate-connected friends (and donors).
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** It is worth noting that the independent Congressional Research Service stated that receiving deferred compensation and holding stock options constitutes a "financial interest", regardless.K -
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Good Guys VS Bad Guys: Facts Nobody Wants to KNow
by TerryWalstrom infacts we don't want to know.
the purpose of war is to kill humans.. .
which humans?.
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humbled
That is an idea that of course comes to mind, luhe. But don’t you think it would be good to secure peace after reducing liberated areas to rubble and destitution? If the only method you have for fighting evil is destruction and death it is hard to hold the ground you gain in war.
There is no incentive for arms manufacturers to lobby for an end of oppression, war, conflict. They have lobbyists in Washington. I wonder why?
“If all you have in your toolbox is a hammer then everything begins to look like a nail.”
Ruby mentioned structural violence and inequality being examined as somefacts to face. Lively folk will not put up with structural violence and inequality forever. If those who hold power don’t care to examine the validity of claims of this abuse ,and no peaceful redress is available, people “misbehave”.
But to be clear I am absolutely opposed to the industrial military complex running the world.
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Good Guys VS Bad Guys: Facts Nobody Wants to KNow
by TerryWalstrom infacts we don't want to know.
the purpose of war is to kill humans.. .
which humans?.
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humbled
Good morning, Ruby. Thanks. He was a really honest man.
I know you’re at work- and l am going to market. Would you explain more what you meant in this:
and what about structural violence and inequality - the UK and the USA trail behind many African states, Eastern and Western Europe.
zeb- good question about racing for money. Eventually this pursuit will eat up every thing and every one, sooner or later. Money is the means to achieve goals. There is madness and death when money is both the means AND the end —that doesn’t even describe capitalism, does it?
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Good Guys VS Bad Guys: Facts Nobody Wants to KNow
by TerryWalstrom infacts we don't want to know.
the purpose of war is to kill humans.. .
which humans?.
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humbled
RubaDub— Even if a fellow volunteers for war and knows the danger—he still wants to live.
My dad was not a “gung -ho” fellow. Respectful of what you say, the veterans from my childhood in the military ( l am 66) were still in uniform and they did not regret their service. Others left the army fog civilian life after the war. In both groups there were vets critical of the romantic hype that sometime glamorized something they didn’t see that way.
I was an infant when he went to Korea. But l was a peer of the Vietnam era vets as are many on this forum. There was controversy in my high school full of military brats. Now my dad was not the 18 year old private or the 26 year old sergeant anymore. Sent to Vietnam as a 41 year old captain, in no time his letters reflected deep disillusionment with the war. His deployment was in fact terminated by a massive ulcer.
I talked to a Desert Storm veteran Saturday at Farmers Market. I mentioned the thread in the forum here.,He snorted about WWll being a war not regretted by vets . He mentioned that it was only an offshoot of WWl which, had the terms of peace been better laid out , was a war that shouldn’t have happened. He suggested l learn to meditate and leave off such discussions. He is sick of war.
Dad and l used to talk about how crooked things could be in the country. He would concede that our government hadn’t always been upright in its conduct with say, native Americans, and would ask” But what can we do?” He was always trying to be a good person.
He felt the military was unfortunately necessary. And didn’t like to hear people call veterans of war “heroes “. he always said he wasn’t a hero. He just was doing his duty. But he really wanted to live too.
edit: if we didn’t have this industrial military complex running the world maybe we would find ourself working for peace without bombs and guns. My dad would have loved that.
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Good Guys VS Bad Guys: Facts Nobody Wants to KNow
by TerryWalstrom infacts we don't want to know.
the purpose of war is to kill humans.. .
which humans?.
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humbled
Luhe- l. Am. Not . Comparing.
... no comparison with Stalin.
Read the link above: US prison industrial complex vs the Stalinist gulag. It should make plain that l do not maintain equivance at all. This United States is a haven indeed for people fleeing rapemurderpovertyterrors abroad if it will let you in.
Perhaps this discussion needs to explore the idea of settling what level of greed and corruption we will accept in a “good guy”. Maybe we can manage to let the greed and corruption fall on the historically “inferiors” then ignore their condition as well deserved. Build more prisons?
What facts should l face, luhe?
I think we should go for transparency. We cannot maintain this adversarial model of life on the planet. Deconstructing begins on a local level. It probably begins with these kinds of conversations.
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Good Guys VS Bad Guys: Facts Nobody Wants to KNow
by TerryWalstrom infacts we don't want to know.
the purpose of war is to kill humans.. .
which humans?.
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humbled
It would be foolish to claim that because a government respects human rights today, they always have. -Or even that they will tomorrow.
I still don't agree with that idea that, "good" and "bad" are definitions manufactured purely by the victorious side. --Especially when there are so many examples of pure evil to illustrate the difference.in general l agree with your statement, TD. The last of your remark should be treated with some care however.
The evils of Stalinism we know. The covert actions of the “good” governments shouldn’t be whitewashed. this good guy vs. bad guy polarizing throws us off the work of making sure our own government respect human rights. To appear always “good” we will hide crimes. This will not help us maintain moral health in our government.. It leads to hypocrisy.
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Good Guys VS Bad Guys: Facts Nobody Wants to KNow
by TerryWalstrom infacts we don't want to know.
the purpose of war is to kill humans.. .
which humans?.
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humbled
SBF—interesting reading about Operation Legacy—sounds like the WTBTS scrubbing old incriminating literature.
There are many venerable institutions that cover up the record of their abuses. It is wrong.
Our democracies can survive the evidence of their wrongdoing- they will not survive the lies. Denying they have done wrong will kill them.
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Good Guys VS Bad Guys: Facts Nobody Wants to KNow
by TerryWalstrom infacts we don't want to know.
the purpose of war is to kill humans.. .
which humans?.
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humbled
TD-
That's an excellent illustration of the fallacy of moral equivalence.Of course it is. I am glad you read it.
What does it take for you and cofty to hear what l have said: l do not say they are equal.
I don’t live in Russia. What concerns me is what is going on here in my country. I already know thatthe Mafia in the US is soft compared to the Russian mob. But which ones would l like to come after me? Neither. Both are bad.
I am in no position to ignore the political corruption in this country. This is not an academic discussion for me.
Mark my words: when the effects of corruption finally become heavy enough in any land the state cannot hold. People cannot rustle out a living when the leaders are not connecting the dots on what is causing massive fails among the working poor— I repeat—the working poor.
Btw- the data collection on unemployment in the US never includes the prison count. The US as you note in the link above holds 25% of the world prison population and is only 5% of the population in the world. Great way to dispose of leftovers is prison. Constitutionally we allow slave labor in prison. Wicked brew for the big corporations to hold in their hands.
I am glad to see this discussion staying afloat.