god does not test anyone.
(james 1:14) hence any account claiming god as testing man (perfect or imperfect) will betray the signs of mans (not gods) thought!.
1) god asking adam not to eat of a particular fruit-bearing tree defies all logic as any fruit-bearing tree is a symbol of goodnessproducing nutritious food (not for themselves) for others; thus doing good for the sake of goodness, which is the very core-attribute of god himself (mathew 5:44-47; mark 10:18) hence eating [the principle] of a fruit-bearing tree would only make man like godsomething jesus himself commanded everyone to do!!!.
My Book of Bible Stories says God tested Abraham by asking him to kill and burn Isaac. That child's book has God using the evil of human sacrifice to test Abraham. The Greek and the Hebrew all add up to the same meaning for test or tempt.
Flat contradiction here about God and temptation. kalos has it right. Read the opening post.
i heard an interview with him once when he was asked did he have a favorite bible-themed film.
he said yes-- jesus of montreal.. "when attendence at a church's annual passion play flags, a troupe of young actors is hired to stage a newer interpretation of the teachings of jesus.
while their newer, more modern version brings the house down, it also brings down the condemnation of church hierarchy, creating a strange parallel between the actors--now persecuted believers--and the authorities.
I heard an interview with him once when he was asked did he have a favorite Bible-themed film. He said yes-- Jesus of Montreal.
"When attendence at a church's annual Passion Play flags, a troupe of young actors is hired to stage a newer interpretation of the teachings of Jesus. While their newer, more modern version brings the house down, it also brings down the condemnation of church hierarchy, creating a strange parallel between the actors--now persecuted believers--and the authorities. But the actor. who is beginning to feel at peace with the character he plays (Christ), insists that the show will go on...no matter what happens to him in the process." 1989 written and directed by Denys Arcand
I watched it last month. It was great. that's why I'm recommending it to anybody regardless of your creeds. It's a good film.
When I get back from my hiatus, maybe some will have looked it up--I might get to know how you liked it.
Maeve
god does not test anyone.
(james 1:14) hence any account claiming god as testing man (perfect or imperfect) will betray the signs of mans (not gods) thought!.
1) god asking adam not to eat of a particular fruit-bearing tree defies all logic as any fruit-bearing tree is a symbol of goodnessproducing nutritious food (not for themselves) for others; thus doing good for the sake of goodness, which is the very core-attribute of god himself (mathew 5:44-47; mark 10:18) hence eating [the principle] of a fruit-bearing tree would only make man like godsomething jesus himself commanded everyone to do!!!.
Aye, prologos, well said of trees.
how jws bend over backwards pretending to be super nice,.
super caring, super open minded and reasonable to strangers.
at the door, strangers at the supermarket, or on tv drumming up publicity for.
I hear you.
No one is supposed to talk to me but the chance to lob a zinger at an apostate was just too much for an old friend/sister. When he saw me at the Farmers Market she came up and said
" What is WRONG with you? What is WRONG with you?"
I barely had time to say the word "Nothing." Because she was gone. Just like that.
I do hate it.
i feel confident that most visitors to this site, understand the essential conflict at the heart of christianity.
how could jesus be fully human and simultaneously be a divine being who descended (supposedly, some thing jesus specifically claimed to be) from heaven.. as jws we may have solved this tricky point by saying that yahweh transferred the life of jesus into mary's womb, and so jesus was born fully human.. but if we remove the blindfold of faith, we immediately 'see' the problem.
in our contemporary view of the reproductive process, we can be certain that there is a female 'egg,' that is fertilised by male sperm.
Thanks for the background on this--I never thought about this bit.
It does remind me of the other equation they could not make add up properly--the dogma of the Immaculate Conception of Mary.
You know, that doesn't refer to her being made pregnant by the Holy Spirit--It is derived from the ancient and popular idea that Mary was conceived without sin thus making her a fitting receptacle for Jesus. "Holy Mary, Mother of God" as the catholics say.
It gave St Thomas Aquinas fits though--because if God could "cure" original sin so easily--which nullified the need for a blood ransom--then Mary had no need of Savior (and no one else would need saving if God could do this little parlor trick)
Quite the theological mess, and Thom had to solve it since the Pope declared it true. The only remedy he could come up with was that however her mum n dad did "it", she just for one unholy second was she a sinner--then BLAM!--cured! Immaculate conception.
Stupid.
in another thread i raised the point " there are moderate muslims but their is no moderate islam".
now i must face the fact i have muslim friends who say they believe the koran.. well i have asked these muslim friends, if they have investigated the origins of the koran.
they have answerd " yes".
Let's keep the thread alive.
But here was a very narrow path this thread is running on. We already have been through hot forum battles-over-Islam sparked by the recent beheadings and the solders killed in Canada.
Now this thread deals with the practical concern of how free are our friends who are Muslim of the violent influence of the dark verses of the Quran. and will this make ourselves and our children a mark for violence if we are non-muslim and speak out in against repressive practices and violence in the name of God.
It is a difficult thing to establish a thread and maintain dialogue instead of diatribes.
We all know that there is a problem with violent and misogynist horrible behavior that for whatever reason has risen out of the Quran. I like this thread for the possibilities it offered of assessing ways for ordinary communities and individuals to deal with Muslim neighbors...
If we can't manage our conversation so that we aren't constantly polarizing every fraction of discussion, then we will get no where.
Let's continue....
in another thread i raised the point " there are moderate muslims but their is no moderate islam".
now i must face the fact i have muslim friends who say they believe the koran.. well i have asked these muslim friends, if they have investigated the origins of the koran.
they have answerd " yes".
SOP,
I do agree in principle with you. But I know that Muslims currently are troubled by some of the attitudes that waft their way due to the actions of fellow Muslims. The 9/11 attack was a life changer for many Muslims even here in Arkansas.
If the Quran has mandates for rotten treatment of sinners and nonmuslims--violent repression etc. then it might be enlightened self interest and not a terrible thing for our Muslim friends to find non-threatening entry to topic that allow discussion.
You know, if Muslims are too afraid or are simply oblivious, they will not engage. But TTATT was relevant for you and me--so it may be for them.
We do not have to assault their religion--but it may be comforting to examine the various reasons we left the WTBTS --one reason being that we now can associate with Muslims without trying to convert them!
im so frustrated i could kill myself right now!!
im 15 and a couple weeks ago i confessed to my parents that i didn't want to be a jehovahs witness anymore and also that i was bisexual.
i had just gotten back from an eating disorder clinic and my parents decided to put me back in school (i was homeschooling before).
They need to get educated about sexual identity issues.
If they think it is all a choice, they'll be on your back FOREVER! The first thing they have to accept is that this is rarely a choice. Next they need to ask themselves "Where does this come from?" Chances are they don't think Jah sent it. They won't concede that it was a natural event(doesn't happen on Jah's watch, Lol?)
I'd work hard on them letting you go to public school. Pull yourself together, don't dodge down the street to your friends who are non-witnes/lesbian/bisexual every moment you are free. Get out with a whole range of people. You'll find others of your own sort there. But get out into public school. It will be an easier battle to win --perhaps. Work with what you've got.
and good luck.
in another thread i raised the point " there are moderate muslims but their is no moderate islam".
now i must face the fact i have muslim friends who say they believe the koran.. well i have asked these muslim friends, if they have investigated the origins of the koran.
they have answerd " yes".
LUHE,
No problem. I actually prefer it when someone bothers to tear me a new one--I survived anal canal cancer for over a year now-- If it comes back, I get in touch with you .
In truth, the problem of fearing to talk is a huge concern of mine. I was raised in a family that suppressed dialogue and fought it, I ended up in a religion that offered freedom of religion and found it false. I hate it-- there is no save haven for ourselves and our children when we fear.
I do agree with you that caution is needed--that's why I say not to go head-on with frightened Muslims--- but come in side ways with our own experience of repression( the JW experience). We are free to express the adverse effect it ultimately had on all we wanted to protect---particularly our children. We can elaborate on the wretched effect it had on our girls. We can expand on the repression of our young men.
It isn't an original idea--this idea of coming in sideways-- NOT directly-- with a story or example that WE know applies to a certain subject--others have used it to good effect. We have this shared example: In our Witness days we remember the story of the prophet Nathan telling the story to the king, David: The story was of a man whose single young she-lamb was taken fom a poor family and slaughtered for the rich neighbor's meal--And the story hit home for David. He had done the same by screwing Uriah's wife.
Such an approach creates freedom because of the "plausible deniability" it allows. I have had to use it often myself when there have been volitile matters in our family to discuss. I've disagreed with my own husband over matters that have involved criminal matters and our children. Often there are issues that have to be dealt with round-about. But they have to be addressed eventually.
Chickens DO come home to roost.
Maybe we can shoo them away for a time--but they propagate and will move into your house sooner or later.
And, LUHE, I admire that you care so much for NHAH that you flew in my face. It was rattling but goddammed real.
Maeve
in another thread i raised the point " there are moderate muslims but their is no moderate islam".
now i must face the fact i have muslim friends who say they believe the koran.. well i have asked these muslim friends, if they have investigated the origins of the koran.
they have answerd " yes".
LUHE,
I can see why you would steer clear of sensitive issues. Having my views crammed up my arse might be a prime conversation topper in your world but not mine. There are ways to talk --even if indirectly-- about freedom. And we should if we send the young to die for it--what do we do at home?
You love freedom. So do I.
By the way, I am a 62 year old she.
Maeve
PS. Clue me--Attack you as a person? I disagree with your advice. Is that the same as trashing your comment? Apology if you felt contempt . This is a discussion forum, no?
