Posts by Eliveleth

37

I am really hurt.

by mouthy in

it has come to my attention ,that elders are now visiting some d/f folk.. to all elders that read this board.

i want a visit, from as many as possible..come in twos& threes, i would love to see you all again.

i will give hugs & i will even let you eat with me.

Eliveleth

Dearest Grace,

I am so sorry they missed your house. I didn't get no visit either

I think we "great Apostates" are just beneath them. You have a great

bunch here who love you. I love you too.

Love and hugs,

Velta

23

I got a jesus question

by lancelink in

with the memorial season behind now, there is a question i have that in over 30 years as a jw i never got a solid answer.

jesus died for our sins; he was the perfect sacrifice, etc, etc.

i always heard how tough it must have been for god to watch his only begotten son die the way he did.

Eliveleth

JCanon Christ had to die in order to sacrifice his HUMAN LIFE. Christ's spiritual life could not save us. So Christ was born as a human and acquired a human identity, that of Jesus. That PERSON who died, that body, and its right to bear children was given up and thus died once for all time. That's why at the second coming, Christ, who appears in the flesh again for the second coming has to sort of "borrow" the body and identity of one of his followers. Now all Christ's followers must also die on behalf of the Christ, that's a given. They are baptized which represents them dying to their personal life and adopting a life dedicated to god. So the person whom Jesus inhabits at the second coming has to die willinging, giving up his own life so that Jehovah can use him in the capacity of the messiah.

So instead of thinking of this being only a death of 3 days and 3 nights, think in terms of the HUMAN who upon being presented in heaven to god in exchange for YOU (one of Adam's children), has died for eternity since that human can never come alive again.

Jesus gave up his HUMAN life with all its prospects, but the Bible says that he was RAISED from the dead. How could he do this if his spirit is all that was alive and that was "commended to his Father" on the day of his death. Luke 23:46 NSRV:"Then Jesus, crying with a loud voice, said, "Father, into your hands I commend my spirit."

1 Peter 3: 18,19 NRSV:"For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous in order to bring you to God. He was put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit, in which also he went and made a proclamation to the spirits in prison,, who in former times did not obey, when God waited patiently in the days of Noah".........

Jesus' spirit was alive, but he was not resurrected until the third day.

Matthre 17:23: NIV: "They will kill him, and on the third day he will be raised to life." And the disciples were filled with grief."

1 Cor 15: 35-50 NIV says in the resurrection, we will be raised in a "spiritual BODY". Since he took the value of his sacrificed body to heaven. It seems to me that he was raised in that body which is resurrected not as HUMAN but as A GLORIFIED BODY. Which is his resurrection BODY

.vs. 35B ut someone may ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?" 36How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44it is sown anatural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"[e]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. 48As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we[f] bear the likeness of the man from heaven. 50I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

The Bible indicates that we, his followers, will be resurrected to be LIKE HIM

Philippians 3:10

I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,

Philippians 3:9-11

who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

1 John 3:2

Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

The Bible says we were created in God's image. Genesis 1:26,27

God is a spirit, so we are spirits in "earth suits", a body created out of the earth. Since our spirits are in HUMAN bodies here on earth, when we are resurrected, like him, we will have SPIRITUAL BODIES in heaven.

Jesus apparently is different than the others in heaven. Revelation says that he appears to be like a "son of man" in heaven.

Revelation 1:9

[ One like a Son of Man ] I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.

Revelation 1:8-10 NIV

"and among the lampstands was someone "like a son of man," dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest."

Revelation 1:12-14 I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one "like a son of man" with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand."

Who is this? From this scripture, it appears to be Jesus.

Revelation 1:17, 18:" When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades."

In my reading and studying of the Bible, there is no place that I have seen that even intimates that Jesus will "take" someone else's body when he returns to earth. Can you show me this?

In Rev. 21 when it talks about Jesus, in his return. he is unique. He is not in a "sort of borrowed" body. It says that there is no need of a "light or a temple" because his glory gives it light".

Rev 21:22: " I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp."

If he had a "borrowed" body, it does not seem to me that it would have this glory. It is HIS GLORIOUS SPIRITUAL BODY.

These are just some of the questions that your post brings to my mind. Could you please give me some scriptures on this? Thanks.

Love and hugs,

Velta

23

I got a jesus question

by lancelink in

with the memorial season behind now, there is a question i have that in over 30 years as a jw i never got a solid answer.

jesus died for our sins; he was the perfect sacrifice, etc, etc.

i always heard how tough it must have been for god to watch his only begotten son die the way he did.

Eliveleth

Burger Time: No disrespect taken. I am merely stating what I believe. I know there are a lot of people on this board

that do not believe as I do and I respectfully accept that. I meant my post merely as an exchange of ideas and how

I view Jesus death.

Void Eater: You are always so kind and accepting regardless of our differences. Thank you.

Love and hugs,

Velta

9

I just found this out!

by bite me in

jw
friends

hey everyone, get this.

i don't know if they know or not but another member (jesus freak) uses the same library that i do!

how i found it out.

Eliveleth

I checked out the Member Directory. There are 3 Jesus Freaks and none of them sound like JWs. Two of them have only posted once. Maybe

they are mostly lurkers.

Love and hugs,

Velta

23

I got a jesus question

by lancelink in

with the memorial season behind now, there is a question i have that in over 30 years as a jw i never got a solid answer.

jesus died for our sins; he was the perfect sacrifice, etc, etc.

i always heard how tough it must have been for god to watch his only begotten son die the way he did.

Eliveleth

Burger Time

The bigger question is that because of sin isn't this what causes ALL PAIN AND SUFFERING? So how could a perfect being feel pain or sadness? Of course this gets in to the common question of how God could have sinful emotions like anger?

My thought on this is: We were made in God's image. I believe from what I have read in the Bible, that God grieves over the sins and actions of mankind, however I do not believe that God "grieved" over His son's death, however, I believe that he felt the same as we would over the suffering and pain and death of one of our children, even though I know that they are going to be resurrected. I feel like LayingLow said, I believe God would have felt pain at the way His son was treated and how he was hurt.

Do you think that Jesus felt no pain at his scourging and crucifixion? Pain is built into man's being. It is a protection for him. People who have diabetes, sometimes do not feel pain and can be harmed by this, because they are not aware and do not fix the problem. Do you think he felt no pain at being rejected by his own people? Whether we are perfect or not, I believe we as humans will feel pain.

The Bible does not list "anger" as a sin but only "fits of anger". In Ephesians it indicates that we can be angry and not sin.

Ephesians 4:26: "In your anger do notsin" : Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry,

Poppers:
It never made sense to me that the death of Jesus was a sacrifice because he "resurrected"? Where is the sacrifice? Nothing was lost.

To God, human life is precious. My belief is that all Christians who believe in Jesus will be resurrected. When the martyrs were killed, was there no sacrifice? Maybe their sacrifice was not to atone for man's sins, but wasn't there a loss? How can we minimize Jesus' death? His Father sacrificed the time that Jesus would not be with Him. Our son disfellowshipped us for only 15 years, but I felt the loss. If we are made in God's image why would He not feel the same as we do? I believe my son is in heaven, but I am sad that he is no longer here, that I will not see him for a few years.

NotaNess:Yes, why would he be so sad. God knew the whole plan already. The sacrifice is symbolic among other things.

Jesus sacrificed his life twice. He gave up his life in glory with His Father in heaven and then he gave it up again as a human. I am not afraid to die, but giving up this life is a sacrifice, even though I believe I will live forever in heaven. My children and husband will be grieving for me, even though they believe that I am in heaven.

Do you see? Even though Jesus knew that he would be resurrected, he did not want to go through the pain and death, but he did. In Gethsemane he prayed: Luke 22:

41-44: "He withdrew about a stone's throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed,"Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done." An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground."

Sounds like a lot of anguish to me. Sounds like Jesus felt he was making a sacrifice." Jesus was human and if we put ourselves in his position, we will know how he felt. It may have been symbolic, but it involved pain and sacrifice.

This is the way I see it.

Love and hugs,

Velta

32

Intro: disfellowshipped as a teen in 1999

by Moxie in

greetings and warm wishes to everyone out there...

this is my first post here on the site, though i have spent many countless hours as a guest reading and reading your posts and conversations.

they have been a great encouragement to me, who as a young woman was disfellowshipped from the society about nine years ago.

Eliveleth

Dearest Moxie,

I am happy for you and sad for you. Not being in captivity to a controlling, narrow-minded religion -

Being separated from your family and friends -

I know and feel your pain and sadness.

Just know that God feels your pain also. Go to Him and let Him comfort you.

Please feel free to fill us in on your exit and life. We would love to hear it.

Love and hugs,

Gramma Velta

75

Why Guess About Dates At All?

by Pickled in

jw
friends

i posted this on another thread and realized that it was really off topic, so i made it a separate topic because i would really like to read your thoughts about this... .

does anyone know if any reasons are given by the wtbts about why they feel it is such an important part of their teachings to keep guessing about dates and the years things are going to happen?

it seems that it adds nothing to whatever they believe about the bible, and it has only served to create such confusion among their members over the years.

Eliveleth

Wow!! Pickled,

This is such a great amount of research. I am bookmarking this thread for others who ask about or say that the

WT never REALLY said that they predicted certain dates. We lived through many of these set dates and we know

that they predicted them, but this puts it in their own words. Thank you so much for your research. It will be a

great tool for others who are questioning.

Love and hugs,

Velta

29

Would you warn a woman of an abusive man?

by cognac in

jw
friends

my ex was very abusive.. he has a girlfriend.

i don't know her.

do you think i should say anything to her?.

Eliveleth

Cognac,

I think you have the answer to the question yourself. Would you want someone to warn

you if it was you in that situation? Do unto others as you would want them to do to you.

Love and hugs,

Velta

25

This Past Week Has Been Hell!

by XJW4EVR in

jw
friends

last friday morning, my wife was attacked while waiting to transfer between buses.

normally, she has the car, and i commute to school, however this day i had to take the car in for some repairs, and then commute to school.

she fought off this guy for some time, and walked away with scratches, scrapes, and some bruises.

Eliveleth

XJW,

My prayers are with you both. You are not to blame.

Life happens. We all get caught in it, but your wife was protected.

She got through this and was instrumental in this monster being

arrested and taken off the street.

Just love her and go to counselling. This can bring you closer

together.

Love and hugs,

Velta

37

boycott Ebay due to their bad policies

by reneef in

jw
friends

i don't know if anyone else here buys or sells on ebay.

i'm thiking some do.

ebay has announced dramatic new policy changes to begin in may 2008 which spell disaster for many honest and ethical sellers and buyers such as myself who have given their blood, sweat and tears to make ebay what it is today.

Eliveleth

Found these two articles: You can read the complete article at the websites.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,141968-page,1/article.html#

EBay Plans Lower Fees, Tighter Seller Standards

EBay changes are designed to boost sales by making the shopping experience easier and safer.

Juan Carlos Perez, IDG News Service

Tuesday, January 29, 2008 7:00 AM PST

EBay unveiled changes to its online marketplace Tuesday that the company characterizes as sweeping and historic and that are aimed at boosting sales by making the shopping experience simpler and safer.

The changes, which include lowering some fees and raising merchant standards, were announced at the company's eCommerce Forum by John Donahoe, who will succeed Meg Whitman as president and CEO in March.

The changes, which will be implemented at different points in the coming weeks and months, come at a time when eBay </tags/eBay+Inc..html> is struggling to boost growth of transaction volume and revenue amidst increased competition from the likes of Amazon.com, which in recent years has attracted many merchants away from eBay.

And this one:

http://collectdolls.about.com/od/auctions/a/ebayraisesfees_2.htm

The eBay Fee Increases

From Denise Van Patten </mbiopage.htm>,

Your Guide to Doll Collecting </>.

FREE

Newsletter. Sign Up Now! </gi/pages/mmail.htm>

(Continued from Page 1) <ebayraisesfees.htm>

Apr 7 2005

The eBay Fee Increases

The first page of this article explores the response of the doll collecting community to the eBay fee increases. Here is a summary (with some editorial comments) of the fees that were raised:

Starting Feb. 18, eBay said the monthly subscription fee for people who operate "Basic eBay Stores" will increase from $9.95 to $15.95. For many sellers, the stores were basically a marketing tool, or an add-on tool to their auctions, since store items didn't come up in searches, so this is an increase that is causing many smaller stores to close.

The fee for a standard listing of 10 days will double, from $.20 cents to $.40 cents. The Gallery photo fee increases to $.35 from $.25, and items with "Buy It Now" ("BIN") prices of $.01 to $9.99 still have a $.05 fee; however, this fee now goes up at a sliding scale, and maxes out at a steep 25 cents for items with "Buy It Now" prices of $50 and up--this is a 400% increase for the BIN fee for any doll or other item over $50!! Personally, I always used BIN to encourage bidding (once someone would bid or go over reserve, BIN would go away).

As a buyer, if I'm buying a gift, I'm often impatient and don't want to wait for an auction, so I look for the BIN! This BIN increase will force a fundamental change in the way many sellers and buyers of dolls do business on eBay.

eBay will also raise final value fees on all items sold through eBay Stores. For example, the fee for items that sell for between $.01 cent and $25 will go to 8 percent of the closing price from 5.25 percent.

One ironic note on the fee increase--eBay also announced that it will "lower the insertion and transaction service fees on pocket bikes from $30 to $3 each." That's right, on pocket bikes. Many in the eBay community think that this change was made so eBay could say in their terse, scripted e-mails to users complaining about the fee increases that some fees actually went down.