i apologize if this has been mentioned, but i don't have the time to come on here as often.
yesterday's bookstudy on divorce got my shorts in a bit of a knot.
apparently, according to the god's love book, a wife could consider legal separation from her husband if she is physically abused, but (get this) only in the case of extreme physical abuse, and if the wife's life is in danger.
In a talk by Ted Jarazc at a Special Assembly Day, about a year ago, he essentially said the same thing. He encouraged women to stay with their husbands in such circumstances so that they could be "won without a word". I wrote about it on this board some time ago. What a hedious, backward teaching. Saddest of all, many women will take this as guidance from god.
zarco
heres somthing thats always bugged me.
the wtbs read sooooo much into revelation, this symbol means this and this symbol means that etc.
they actauly have no proof and no back up for this.
Outstanding, Leolaia. Thanks for the clarity regarding the purpose of the writing.
i wanted to say a few things to current and former elders.
it was really a post by alltimejeff on 10/1/2009 that got me thinking about this and i address a few things that he says here.
but i dont want to single him out because i really think that he is typical of many, and he did in fact apologize for his actions at the end of his post.
Styxx,
Thanks for your post appealing to the common good and to honor.
I am not trying to diminish the point you are making, rather to provide a little perspective.
I think that most, if not all elders, start off thinking that they have been appointed by god’s organization. I don’t think that many believe they are appointed by Holy Spirit since those who see and know the process realize that if there is a holy spirit, it is not overseeing the appointment of men in the WTS. I also think that many elders, especially young elders try to do many good things for the brotherhood. They may not do them for the right reason or motive, but they do them.
You are right that many people join the witnesses to be cared for and refreshed spiritually. For elders, especially new and young elders, they think initially that following the guidelines of the WTS is what will accomplish those two things. If the expected results of WTS policies and procedures are not forthcoming, the elder is trained to blame the individual and not to question the WTS.
After a period of time, a thinking elder begins to realize that it is the very policies and procedures that are flawed and not the individuals. Most elders at that time will either ignore the rules and follow their conscience to the best of their ability or resign.
As an ex-elder, I look back in retrospect and wish I would have understood my motives better, but such motives are only clear for me in hindsight. I tried to always follow my conscience and did my best – my family did as well – to really help people. But the conflict between really helping and still following all the procedures wore on me over time. The same might be true for Jeff.
All of us as individuals are responsible for our actions. I am for mine, Jeff is for his. I only ask that you look at the wrongs of the organization and the harm attributable to its actions and measure those against the actions of individual elders. I don’t know if it will moderate your judgment of them (and me), but it might.
All the best,
zarco
the cong i belonged to was very large...it was the 'popular' hall!
i say that because it was a new building (double-khall), a lot of families went to this hall whether they were in the territory or not - if their relation went there or their 'friends' were in this cong - they came too!
lots of young couples...they drank together, they partied together, they go out clubbing together, and they all had their kids together.
Typically witnesses suffer from narcissistic tendencies and a short sighted view. The narcissism comes from believing that they, as one tenth of a percent of the world’s population, are the only ones that have it right. All modern day events are fulfillment of prophecy written about them. As a people chosen by the almighty himself, they do not have to render an account to the lowly human race (and common good), but only to the WT itself.
Secondly, witnesses think that their god will magically rid the world of all their problems - money problems, health problems, relationship problems, environmental problems and etc.- are all magically taken care of soon. What does that cause? It causes people to not put effort and thought into fixing or improving on those problems for themselves.
That is why for many, it is a surprise to find that there are mamy “worldly” people who care and invest great effort in solving problems because they take responsibility for them and do not wait for god to solve them.
In our experience, there are some wonderful witnesses, but the majority to not take a long term view of anything and it reaps the results that you would expect. There are some pretty awful witnesses.
Regards,
zarco
i just saw the last thread started by highdose about her date with the nonwitness gentleman (and you have both my congratulations as well as best wishes).
but then it occured to me as a single guy that i have had very little luck in the dating department since leaving the cult.
i understand why, to a large degree, this can be a problem for folks after they have had their minds and social skills depleated.
A little humility might help.
the november 1st public wt has an article on "do you need to learn hebrew and greek?
" funny is it not that they feel we do not need too.
anywho on page 21 of said wt.
Learning Hebrew and Greek is only a small percentage of the picture with regard to Bible writings. As important is the culture, the practices, the political and economic situation of the time period, how people lived, what external beliefs/cultures influenced them and the list continues on and on.
As an example, a WT scholar a 1000 years from now may happen upon the phrase written in English “kick the bucket”, a WT scholar would – through the holy spirit – explain this phrase to mean – the true Christians in America would “kick” all their worldly goods held in their “bucket” as worthless. Rather they focused the coming of kingdom in 2014. For any non-english speakers, this idiom means "die". But for a WT scholar, who in the heck knows what it means.
Fortunately, much of thinking society listens to those who study culture, language, religion, history and the like. We build on their findings and ideas. Sadly, the WT has not one (maybe I am exaggerating) individual capable of really understanding Hebrew and Greek and what the words and phases really meant in context.
zarco
i received a message on my telephone voice mail by a person who attended a jehovah's witness assembly this past weekend.
i believe the assembly was in michigan.
the caller told me it was announced from the platform that if a person is not attending the meetings on a regular basis active witnesses should not be associating with them.
True. But it took me a long, long time to realize who "the stupid ones" really were!
Me too, Willy!
And what does Evian spell backwards? I know it's an old, bad joke... oh well
Several years ago benzene was found in some of the Perrier water shipped to the US. Apparently, the contamination occurred in the shipping and distribution process and not at the source. The water is sourced from a natural underground mineral spring in Vergeze, France.
The only thing that might be bad for you/us is contributing to process that ships water several thousands of miles. Like we can't find a decent drink of water close:). I love Aqua Panna, so I guess I am guilty as well.
i wondered how did your "best" jw friends react to when you told them you're leaving wts?.
after i found out all i needed to know i called up my old friend who i thought was a good friend but i knew he was a die hard dub and i told him to write down a book and read it.
i was refering to russell's thy kingdom come.
Excellent point, trl
To remain in the cult, you have to believe that others are crazy not to believe it. It's just the way cults work.
