Posts by zarco

7

whoa some of russells teachings where more correct than current JW teachings please comment

by recovering in

i was on wikipedia looking up some of charles taze russells teachings, look at what i found.

whoa some of russells teachings where more correct than current jw teachings .

please discuss.

zarco

CT had some pretty strange teachings. What is most significant was that he was known as a religious thinker. He did question many main stream beliefs, but many others did the same during his generation (sorry could not resist). He would debate openly.

The biggest difference between the early days and now is that the no one views witnesses as religious thinkers. There are not any significant spiritual or ethical issues that witnesses lead the debate on today. They are known as a fringe religion by some and as crackpots by others... certainly not as thought-leaders.

Both the current and past WT teachings have been proven false. But at least Russel provided information and ideas for meaningful interchange and debate.

62

The status of women in early Christianity

by Leolaia in

the watchtower society maintains a very strict gender dichotomy in its organization.

this is news to no one.

although men -- in many cases, unqualified men -- are expected to reach for advancement within local congregations (e.g.

zarco

Leolaia - I am working my way through your essay. It is thought provoking to say the least. I wonder if the egalitarian movement was an existing social movement that attached itself to early christianity and eventually to gnostic teachings as a way to further its cause or if the “women-friendly” principles found in the movement begat the egalitarian treatment of individuals?

The role of women in supporting the early movements – eventually gnostic and “orthodoxy” – through financial sponsorship, teaching, prophecy and leadership is far greater than I ever realized and critical to early Christianity gaining traction in society – thanks for making me think differently about that.

It seems that much of Christianity today – JWs in particular – get around the issue by focusing on the equal results applied to men and women (heavenly life) rather than equal treatment and opportunity.

A fascinating read…. your research is well outside of my area of expertise. It takes a lot of time to get my linear thinking head around it :)

zarco

41

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 1-17-10 WT Study (PLACE IN CONGREGATION)

by blondie in

jw
friends

(romans 12:4-8; 1 corinthians 12:12-28; ephesians 4:15, 16; colossians 2:19).

8:34,35.. comments.

4:15.. comments.

zarco

Blondie - as always well done.

The title of the article made me laugh. In our family room we have a spot with a rug and a dog pillow for our dog. It is his place. When he is chewing a bone or doing other things that dogs do, he is told to go to his place. The command is "place". I think the WTS is treating the flock like a dog. The flock's place is similarly on the floor. They also are treated like a an animal in that their thoughts are "dog thoughts" not worthy of being part of the discussion. Maybe the only difference is we treat our dog really well and he is a happy little guy...

zarco

9

Our "Family Worship" Night this week....DVD World's Apart (To Verdener)

by Open mind in

jw
friends

to fully cooperate with the loving counsel from the slave, our family dutifuly watched "young people, what will you do with your life?

" this week.

oh wait.

zarco

OM - We enjoyed the film when it came out... I think it was on On Demand for a while in the IFC section. It is a very thought provoking film. One scene that sticks in my mind is the one when the boyfriend is questioning Sara in a store about the fact that her religion teaches that all these people will be destroyed. He points to different people in the store and asks her if they will die... it is a powerful scene

Family study night at your house sounds like fun!

24

Do the Differences Between Spiritual Beliefs Really Matter?

by daniel-p in

jw
friends

one of the themes i think about every now and again is that of the nature of belief, the purpose of religion, and the presense of truth.. specifically, do the differences between spiritual beliefs really matter?

meaning that, if every religion is just an amalgamation of different combinations of mysticisms, does it really matter if we are protestants, catholics, quakers, mormons, muslims, pagans, jews, or even jehovah's witnesses?

further, does it really matter whether we believe in god or not?

zarco

Good thread, daniel-p.

I think we have come to the personal belief that it doesn't really matter. If there is a god, he has not left clear instructions as to what to do or what to believe and if chooses to harm folks for his own poor instructions, then I don't think he is much of a god anyway. And if there is not a god, then we have to figure stuff out on our own and have to take care of communities, nations and people to the best of our ability. I think the not-a-god path probably makes us better people in that we have to solve our own problems.

God if you are listening, we are rooting for you, but you have a lot of explaining to do :)

zarco

11

Quakers

by S EIGHT in

i've been doing some research today on the quakers and so far i quite like what i see.. the main reason is the lack of dogma or creed and the freedom to have views of your own.

however, i am still researching and no way am i considering joining them - i just like what i see so far.. i wondered if anyone else - ex jw, has taken a look at this faith.

if so, what were your conclusions?.

zarco

We are not interested in joining any religion, but if we missed the fellowship and social contacts we might consider Quakers, Unitarian Universalists and possibly Bhuddhism. All three of these religions have appealing core principles, few rules and work hard to promote peaceful relations between nations and individuals.

Maybe more importantly, these three religions do not stifle creative thinking and exploration.

zarco

37

confused, scared and worst of all, teenager.

by torn in two son in

my dad woke up about 3 years ago and said nothing.

my sister woke up about a year ago.

my mom about a month ago, myself shortly after.

zarco

Torn - I recommend the-real-life's advice... mostly because T-R-L has great parents and thus gives good advice :)

Now that you're out, you can really get to know who you are and develop your talents and figure out what makes you happy and how you can use your personality traits to help others. The best is yet to come! You're young enough that in a couple of years, you might have a hard time even remembering what it was like to be a witness. I feel like that sometimes and I've only been out for about 3 years.

In all seriousness, the life ahead will be exciting and you will meet many life-long friends. I have a fond spot for people I went to school with and for folks that I pioneered with. But we change so much as we grow older and become who we are supposed to be that some of the closeness that we had with people from the past seems to fade. The friendships that last a lifetime are those based on honesty and common interest.

Regarding your cousin and other that you are close to, it will be a tough balancing act in some ways. But trust your instincts and your folks as to what to do. And as others have said, take your time. When making tough decisions time is usually a friend to you unless taking your time has other detrimental effects.

Best,

zarco

27

Some Conclusions I Have Reached

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

i wonder if everyone here who has kept up with me since i left jw's realize why i have been coming on here.

it certainly has been cool to know that some of my experiences and opinions have helped some.

i hope they know that i have been equally helped by others.. i come here primarily for me.

zarco

Nice post, Jeff.

Life is like floating down a river...

z

16

Sunk Costs

by zarco in

jw
friends

it is interesting that many who do not believe any more or others with good thinking abilities choose to remain a witness.

i believe that the sunk costs are the reason... i will explain more below.

i also think this is why maybe even the governing body or other decision-makers at bethel are so reluctant to own up to real truth.

zarco

L4P - if a Witness believes that there is no prospective value in staying a Witness and yet stays, then yes that would be a strange decision based on only sunk costs. However, most, if not all, place different future values on staying or leaving based on their own individual circumstances. If the view is forward looking only, then generally one is making a sound decision (for them). For instance, if one decides to stay because their father or mother is a Witness then we can understand the decision. Another may look at their children and make a forward looking decision to leave so that their children are not influenced by the teachings of the Witnesses, an understandable decision (in my view a courageous one as well). It is when one says, "I have done this too long to leave or I am staying because if I leave now it means that what I taught my bible students for years was a lie" that the trouble with sunk costs comes up, because forward looking decisions are being made based on what was invested or sunk costs.

z

16

Sunk Costs

by zarco in

jw
friends

it is interesting that many who do not believe any more or others with good thinking abilities choose to remain a witness.

i believe that the sunk costs are the reason... i will explain more below.

i also think this is why maybe even the governing body or other decision-makers at bethel are so reluctant to own up to real truth.

zarco

goldensky -

I totally brushed them off when I awakened

When I was writing the post, I thought about those who leave all at once. I wondered if some event is so powerful that it causes one not to even worry about past costs. It is like an investment is so bad that an investor says "I have had it" and dumps the investment - was that the case with you?

ziddina - we can co-author a thread on the terror tactics of the JWs. If we co-authored then we each would only be half-lazy.

OM - it is food for thought for me too. I try to examine our decision making regarding fading to see what is influencing our decisions.

slimboyfat - I have not read Holden. Thanks for referencing his work.