izobcenec

Joined

• started 75 topics
• posted 297 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by izobcenec

• 
  6

  How to get personal file from WT???

  by izobcenec in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i would like to know, if it is possible, for someone, who leaves jw's (or is df) to get his personal file, stored in kingdom .

  hall and in bethel...i mean the judical commitee hearing notes, s77 form (or a copy of it), publisher record card and all.

  other documents...what kind of request must one do an to whom?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  izobcenec

  I would like to know, if it is possible, for someone, who leaves JW's (or is DF) to get his personal file, stored in kingdom
  hall and in bethel...i mean the judical commitee hearing notes, S77 form (or a copy of it), publisher record card and all
  other documents...what kind of request must one do an to whom? Thanx for your info!
• 
  72

  What's with the media and the march

  by Lady Lee in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  where are the reports.

  what exactly happened when the media went into the doos of bethel.

  were they threatened.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  izobcenec

  A radical islam belief is forcing the stoning of a young mother in africa because she had sex out of wedlock- and you thought jw's were radical. Maybe you did not watch the public beheadings in afganastan in the soccor fields.

  
  Mr Bush and Mr Blair will solve those problems joking
  
  Kelsey: yes, they are even crazyer people in the world. That is a fact. But all on this forum were affected by WTS somehaw, not by afganistanis or islam extremists. It is natural, that we all want some justice, me, you, bill bowen and all the victims. bill is obviusly aware, that the silentlambs issue will end in:
  
  - end of silentlambs movement
  - end of watchtower
  
  Its really that simple!
  
  I guess you wouldnt fight anything, just to keep it "positive" You still have emotions for WTS and that is your problem. There just lying humans (the leaders), and and blind believers (jw's)...I will state again: I dont hate Jw's in general, I wish I could help them, at least I'm trying. While I CAN find positive things on Jw's as people, I CAN'T find anything positive about WTS. I mean, lying for now 130 yrs, always changing the doctrine and then blaming the poor publishers, that they didnt understant it right, that is absolutely sick. They are well aware of their power and, as you see, the can even afford to have their own sex scandal and most jw's dont either know or care.
  
  I agree with you, our propaganda wont affect the WTS directly, but IF the authorities, the police or FBI start to investigate, the WT is gone.
  
  I have been a Jw' for 30 years and I know how thing work.
  
  And Bill Bowen? He is a great guy, he has already helped the victims, many were just happy to see, that someone is fighting this problem, that was enough for them.
  
  And remember, Kelsey, this is a discussion board, we discuss thing and that doesnt mean, that we always agree on things. But running away is not a solution, lets talk some more! You are mentioning reform of WTS, I ask you again: what would you reform? How would you reform?

  Edited by - izobcenec on 30 September 2002 8:5:20
• 
  72

  What's with the media and the march

  by Lady Lee in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  where are the reports.

  what exactly happened when the media went into the doos of bethel.

  were they threatened.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  izobcenec

  Kelsey: i don't hate Jw's, no way!
  We have sincere believers on one side and the leaders on the other side.
  The leaders are manipulating with believers and that is criminal. I just dont see, what could be reformed?
  What would you reform in WTS? If Ted Jaracz is a rapist (and there is some evidence showing up in some
  other thread), what should he do now? If the blood doctrine is false, who is guilty for all dead people? Dont
  you think, that someone is guilty, and if he is, he is guilty of MURDER? Is that not criminal? Should we
  not fight that? Can we positively view murderers?
• 
  72

  What's with the media and the march

  by Lady Lee in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  where are the reports.

  what exactly happened when the media went into the doos of bethel.

  were they threatened.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  izobcenec

  Ok lets see...working for the victims, what would that exactly be?
  
  First, we dont even know the victims, maybe just few of them, but most of 5000 victims, who contacted bill, we dont know.
  Most of them are not molested now, they were molested years ago. So what can we do to help them? Well, in the end
  it all comes to lawsuits and money. And it is a question, if they will win those...
  
  I really dont see any reform possible within the watchtower, it has to be the way it is now to work or else they can pack
  their bags and go. What would you reform? Blood? 1914? Last days? I mean, they cannot change anything! They dont
  want to change anything, the system is working and working very effective. Most of Jw's dont even know or care about
  silentlambs, they are just waiting for the new world to come soon. That hope is all they have and 90% are not willing to
  throw it away, no matter what! It was so clear in our Country, when WT spokesman LIED on TV, and clearly so...but
  nothing happened, they find some excuses for that (like the set him up...)
  
  Yes, it would be very nice to actually talk with WT officials and debate about issues, but we all know that is not
  possible. Yes, they are not going to fold under OUR criticism, but they MAY fold under the FBI investigation or state
  law.
  
  So, in the end, we are fighting against WTS, its negative, but they are actually criminals and some of them belong to jail.
  I mean, when simplified, they are lying to people, ruining their lives and taking their money. That is criminal. I will
  always fight against that kind of people and societies, especially if I or my dear ones are involved. Thats how people work.
  Why didnt we fight against WTS policy on child abuse ten years ago? Look at all xjw websites today, everyone is writing
  about silentlambs...
  
  Will silentlambs change WTS policy? No! Only courts can achieve that and when (and if) it happens, the watchtower is dead.
  Just like Enron.
• 
  70

  Ted Jaracz - the accused

  by Nathan Natas in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  at the silentlambs march in brooklyn ny on september 27, 2002 a woman made a public statement which began, .

  i'm pat garza, and i'm here today because i was raped by theodore jaracz when i was a little girl, in the city of los angeles, he was district servant.

  there are two boys; their initials are "m.v.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  izobcenec

  I wrote something about that accusation on some other thread.
  Now, I didnt want to be rude or anything, Its just, that the accusations
  are so incredible, they certainly change the whole picture!
  
  Now, if they are two witnesses, who are willing to testify on court,
  we certainly have a case against Ted Jaracz. And if he is such a
  bastard, he must go to jail. If that is the case, the focus should be
  put to this case, I mean, if Jaracz is found guilty of rape, there is no
  way back for the Watchtower. They will lose all other lawsuits and
  declare bankrupcy.
  
  I appologise to anyone I may have hurt, it wasnt intentional, but this
  thing is way beyond my imagination...
• 
  72

  What's with the media and the march

  by Lady Lee in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  where are the reports.

  what exactly happened when the media went into the doos of bethel.

  were they threatened.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  izobcenec

  After all, I AM OPTIMISTIC, if I wouldn't be, why would i work against WTS?
  I think it is possible to do something but only with coordinated work. It has
  to be visible, that we are serious, not just angry xjw's...be sure, that the WTS
  lawyers will be checking this and all other forums, to find anything they can
  use against Bill or anyone else...
• 
  72

  What's with the media and the march

  by Lady Lee in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  where are the reports.

  what exactly happened when the media went into the doos of bethel.

  were they threatened.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  izobcenec

  larry: noone is critising bill's work so you dont have to defend him
  but you have the agree that the silentlambs issue is now far more
  than just helping the victims...it is about survival of watchtower now...
  they CANNOT change any policy, if they would, that would mean,
  that the current policy was wrong. then they would lose all the lawsuits
  (and I'm not saying that they are not going to anyway), but if they
  admit, that they have bad policy, they are gone, thats what I think...
  and, as someone stated, insted of the sign "watchtower" there will
  be a sign "for sale"...I think bill knows that too...the same is with blood
  issue, they will never change that, because if they would, the lawsuits
  would killed them...so the question is, will the FBI investigate, will they
  lose lawsuits? They have good lawyers, are they good enough? And
  dont think there is no lobbying going on with politicians too, the watchtower
  is a surviver, just look what did they survive in last 130 years I mean they
  fight like crazy, their lawyers thinking of ways to contra attack, they will
  investigate backgrounds of bill, barbara and every victim, just to find anyting.
  we are now at turning point, the silentlambs issue is finaly seriously taken by
  them.
• 
  72

  What's with the media and the march

  by Lady Lee in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  where are the reports.

  what exactly happened when the media went into the doos of bethel.

  were they threatened.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  izobcenec

  I didnt question Bill, I honestly like the guy!
  BUT if I would have to question him, I would, why not?
  
  And it was just my impression, I dont even know him...
• 
  72

  What's with the media and the march

  by Lady Lee in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  where are the reports.

  what exactly happened when the media went into the doos of bethel.

  were they threatened.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  izobcenec

  I agre, most people dont care for jw's or xjws in general BUT if they would know, that some of them are paedophiles, they would care...and what is this WT policy, if someone is a KNOWN paedophile, someone must accompany him door 2 door, what if that companion is a UNKNOWN paedophile, they make quite a team, huh?
• 
  72

  What's with the media and the march

  by Lady Lee in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  where are the reports.

  what exactly happened when the media went into the doos of bethel.

  were they threatened.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  izobcenec

  I think it is getting really hot in this thread, I'll just go for a walk now