MidWichCuckoo,
I have an essay on my system about the Mexico/Malawi issues that I found a few months ago which explains it very well. It is long, but well worth reading. Unfortunately I don't know the author of this work, but whoever wrote it, did a very good job. I have not personally wrote a letter to the Society on the issue, as I am afraid of showing up my apostasy, but I have read old posts on here of people who did, and the common theme seems to be that they NEVER respond. This is also mentioned in the essay. I guess they see it as an indefensible issue. I have offered Thirdwitness the chance to debate these issues with me, but he has ignored every request. His silence says a lot.
Here is the essay:
In 1964, 1967, 1972 and 1975, waves of intense, cruel and barbaric persecution hit Jehovah's Witnesses (JWs) in the East African country of Malawi which until 1993 had been ruled with an iron fist by Dr Hastings (Kamuzu) Banda for over 30 years - the self styled 'President for Life' - although now currently on trial for murdering 4 cabinet ministers in 1983. He was finally thrown out in 1993 by long overdue free elections.
Witnesses had, in keeping with headquarters policy, refused to buy a 'party card' for Banda's 'Malawi Congress Party' as they felt it compromised political neutrality. [JWs have nothing to do with the military, defence or politics] Some may be puzzled at this because in Malawi then there was no choice and only one party - Banda's. One could logically reason that any citizen anywhere is a member of a country or state or government - the words citizen, state, political, government - all stem from same Latin source. Membership of such was automatic and there was no need to get involved with party politics, especially as there were no other political parties in Malawi!. Romans 13:7 demonstrates the early Christians attitude to secular government.
Anyway, the persecution was nevertheless needless and cruel beyond belief. Thousands of Malawi witnesses had their homes burned and crops destroyed. Thousands of the women and young girls were raped and abused often by gangs of thugs. Many witnesses suffered and died because of their refusal to purchase the party card. Again and again it happened. Accounts of this terrible suffering was regularly and repeatedly reported in the Watchtower and Awake magazines. Millions of letters were sent to Banda from other witnesses all over the world, protesting about this barbaric treatment. And rightly so.
At the same time, many miles away in Mexico, the reports from Malawi were being read with much unease.
In Mexico it was the custom for the brothers to 'make a payment' ( bribe) to government officials in order to obtain a 'Identity Cartilla for Military Service'. This was normally obtained by carrying out military service training on a weekly basis for one year. Bribing officials and obtaining the Cartilla (or certificate) without completing the training, was an illegal, although quite common practice. The Cartilla is needed in order to obtain a passport. The Cartilla puts one effectively in the 'first reserves' of the military. The Mexican branch of the society had previously written to the headquarters in 1960, questioning whether the bribing of officials to obtain the Cartilla was acceptable. The reply was that it was and up to the conscience of the brothers themselves, and that the society should not be worried about it. The society need not get involved.
The reports in the magazines about the abuses in Malawi and the reason for them, caused the Mexican branch to again question headquarters about it in 1970. The reply was that 'there was nothing more to add', and that the Mexican branch were to leave things as they were. A brother in Mexico was free to pay a bribe and would not be punished by the society. (A non JW reader should note that this is not a case of 'general religious tolerance' - the society is quick to rule on a variety of other issues and penalties can be severe. For example - a JW who occasionally smoked or celebrated a birthday or Christmas, would be disfellowshiped (excommunicated) and other JWs including family would not be allowed to associate, with him or her) Consider the situation then:
1..'Alternative service' is where a country's government allows alternative work in lieu of military service (or conscription) for persons who, for religious or other reasons, conscientiously object to it.
The official WTS ruling at that time on 'alternative service' was that it was totally unacceptable for Jehovah's Witnesses, even if the alternative work offered had no military connections . This was still the case in 1980 (and may even still be now) Brothers in lands where there was compulsory conscription were expected to 'serve their time' in prison for refusing such service, like thousands before them. The alternative would be disfellowshipping.
2.. Brothers in Mexico were bribing officials to obtain a military Cartilla, effectively putting them in the first reserves of the army. The headquarters society was fully aware of this
3.Brothers and sisters in Malawi were being murdered, beaten, raped and tortured for their adherence to (the WTS interpretation of) Christian neutrality and the refusal to buy a (single state) party card , involving no bribing or illegality.
Why the double standards with such devastating consequences for the poor brothers and sisters in Malawi? Or what about the brothers in some countries spending years of young lives in prison?
If 'substitutes' are wrong in principle, what about BLOOD substitutes - which witnesses willingly accept? What is the difference? Rules of men?
I hope that the reason is nothing to do with land and property. How so? Consider the wider circumstances that pertained in Mexico.
Relatively recently, in the Watchtower of January 1st 1990, page 7, it was announced that the status of the organisation in Mexico had been changed in 1989.
The brothers and sisters in Mexico could now for the first time have prayers at the meetings, sing songs, and use the Bible when preaching. The article spoke of the 'tears of joy' brought by this 'thrilling change'.
The Yearbook 1990 page 10 also reported this change. It said 'On April 1st a change in the status and organisational procedures of JWs took place in Mexico: Prayer may now be freely offered at all congregation meetings, and the bible may be used in field service. A woman active in a Catholic Bible Study program said about the witnesses new religious freedom: 'If they left us speechless before, now that they are opening the bible at the doors, we are lost!' [emphasis added - note the inference of the word 'freedom']
(The undisputable fact is that Jehovah's Witnesses DID NOT use the NAME of Jehovah, nor Jesus, nor the Bible in their meetings or printed material. Here are two examples of INFORMADOR DE LA TORRE DEL VIGIA, from Kent" 1988 and . Note that Jesus is mentioned as: Maestro Principal and Gran Maestro. The Bible as Tradduccin. I'm not Spanish, so I don't know Superintendente Amoroso :-) But after their "freedom", after the law that denyed religious churches to own property was gone, they suddenly starts using Jehovah, Jesus and the Bible. The last example is from NUESTRO MINISTERIO DEL REINO.
(comments done by ))
Neither of these 1990 articles saw fit to explain what the previous situation in Mexico had been, and why they had previously been denied this religious freedom. A reader would probably conclude that the Mexican authorities must have changed or softened in some way, giving the witnesses a long awaited new religious freedom at last. They would be mistaken.
The Awake 22 November 1993 p28 also had an item - 'Jehovah's Witnesses Given Legal Recognition in Mexico' that was also somewhat economical with the truth - Anyone reading it would get the CLEAR impression that the situation had previously been 'out of the witnesses hands' It said:
'On May 7, Jehovah's Witnesses were granted legal status as a religion in Mexico. A document guaranteeing such recognition was given them by the Subsecretary of the Government Interior Department on May 31. Thus another step forward was taken toward religious freedom in Mexico. It was on April 1, 1989, that Jehovah's Witnesses were first able to offer prayer freely at their congregation meetings and use the Bible in their door-to-door ministry. There are over 370,000 Witnesses in Mexico. The Mexican government reformed its laws last year and began to give legal recognition to religious organizations in the country.'
In 1917 the Mexican Laws of Reformation established full freedom of religion in Mexico. Probably due to extensive foreign mineral and oil land ownership, coupled with a past animosity between state and catholic church (prior to 1859 the catholic church held on third of all property and land) the ownership of mineral rights, property and land by foreign companies was curbed. Religious organisations, although free to worship, could not actually own property. The constitution meant that property was effectively held in custody by the state, but the religion was free to use this property for worship.
The very recent Yearbook of 1995 throws considerably more light on the subject skates round the obvious but uncomfortable conclusions. It has a section devoted to the history of JWs in Mexico. A few sentences, here and there, admit what the situation was. On June 15th 1943 the 'La Torre del Vigia' (Watchtower Society - Mexico) was registered in Mexico by the WTS headquarters as a CULTURAL organisation rather than a religious one. Therefore BIBLES were not used in preaching, SONGS were not sung at meetings and assemblies, and even PRAYERS were not offered publicly. Congregations were called 'Cultural Companies' Baptism was called 'performing the symbol' Surely the society hadn't decided to opt for land and property ownership rather than religious status, prayer, use of Bibles etc. What other reason was there? The 1995 Yearbook does not fully explain this. It does say (on the subject of no public prayer) that 'there is nothing to stop someone silently offering prayer to Jehovah' but how can this possibly be resolved with Daniel's example in Dan 6:6-28 where Daniel prayed publicly, despite the Kings decree, -and landed up in the lions den as a result? Yet the society opted for a 'no public prayer status' voluntarily!
Public Prayer is a primary part of worship for JWs everywhere else. So what changed in April 1989? Surely it had nothing to do with something as worldly as property ownership in 'this doomed old system of things?' The 1995 Yearbook (page 233) says that ' In 1988 after meetings with government representatives (who?) it was concluded that the organisation should operate as a religion even if it meant that meeting places would become federal property '. At last? Well, not quite. A number of pages later (Page 249-50) the Yearbook also says '..Carlos Salinas de Gortari began his term of presidency of the republic in December 1988 - one could see that there would be a change in policy regarding religion and a re-approachment with the Vatican'. Hmm. NB: By 1992 the actual constitution itself had been amended. Religions could own their own land and property. Parochial schools were OK's etc. etc. A timely coincidence?
All this may give a little human insight into why their were double standards applied between Malawi and Mexico. But it does not explain, excuse or justify it. The questions it raises are quite simple. 1.Firstly, Is this all true? Or is it all lies? Did the society's headquarters not object to brothers in Mexico illegally bribing officials in order to obtain a certificate which placed them in the military reserves, whilst at the same time knowing of the brutality, rape, torture and murder going on in Malawi from 1964 - 1975 and later? If so, what was the difference and where is it's precedence or justification in the Bible? 2. Was a 'cultural' rather than religious organisation set up in Mexico, [denying the use of Bibles to preach, public prayer etc] s imply so that land and property could be owned? Or what were the other reason(s)? Was this 'cultural status' and it's voluntary nature fully explained in any publications (outside Mexico) prior to those mentioned here? Why was the change made in 1989? What prompted it, and was any land or property lost as a result? 3. Is there a double standard in all this? If so, is anyone humbly sorry? -enough to apologise and set things right? Surviving relatives of victims in Malawi would be an appropriate place to start. JW publications take every opportunity to rake over any and all unsavoury aspects of all other religions. They claim to be God's sole visible organisation on earth today. If so, there must be a simple explanation. (If there is, then I cant find it, amd letters to the Society on the matter go unanswered)
Posts by Zico
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49"Store up... treasures in heaven." 2007 Circuit Assembly review
by Zico ini had my circuit assembly last weekend.
it was absolutely mind numbing, but i took extensive notes, and i thought i'd share the key points with everyone here for your reading pleasure.. .
i feel i'd made a lot of progress since my convention in june.
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Zico
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49
"Store up... treasures in heaven." 2007 Circuit Assembly review
by Zico ini had my circuit assembly last weekend.
it was absolutely mind numbing, but i took extensive notes, and i thought i'd share the key points with everyone here for your reading pleasure.. .
i feel i'd made a lot of progress since my convention in june.
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Zico
Hi R6 laser, I already posted why I did this. I did it to help people see through the lies in the same way the Convention reviews helped me.
Do you still believe in the JW teachings? Maybe you should re-read this and other reviews before your Circuit Assembly. It might help you to open your eyes.
Zico.
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49
"Store up... treasures in heaven." 2007 Circuit Assembly review
by Zico ini had my circuit assembly last weekend.
it was absolutely mind numbing, but i took extensive notes, and i thought i'd share the key points with everyone here for your reading pleasure.. .
i feel i'd made a lot of progress since my convention in june.
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Zico
I was amazed to see only one baptism. I?ve never known such a low number. Has anyone here been to an assembly with no baptisms? I expect that there will be a time when this happens, I?ll be interested to see how they do the talk on this day. There was certainly nothing new or exciting, there hasn?t been anything new or exciting for years.
Newyork44m. He never mentioned the exact country or date, but he definitely said it was a Central America country. For all I know, it could have been decades ago!
Amazing. My brother was baptised at a Circuit Assembly 8 years ago, with about 15 people being baptised! I was baptised at 14, 6 years ago, at a Convention, with over 30! At my Convention this year, there were just 6 baptisms. Things are definitely changing!
TheListener. Thanks! I do hope it can help people.
Unique1. I know how you feel!
JayHawk1. EXACTLY my thoughts during this talk.
Sspo. Don?t get complacent now!
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49
"Store up... treasures in heaven." 2007 Circuit Assembly review
by Zico ini had my circuit assembly last weekend.
it was absolutely mind numbing, but i took extensive notes, and i thought i'd share the key points with everyone here for your reading pleasure.. .
i feel i'd made a lot of progress since my convention in june.
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Zico
Sorry you had to wait so long for the end! I got distracted. Sunday afternoon continued. 'You cannot slave for God and for riches.' The third talk by our Circuit Overseer. Jehovah (WTBTS) requires exclusive devotion. We need to be at all meetings. These meetings, are like a spiritual paradise. He used Matthew 6:19, 20, to say that we should STOP storing treasures on Earth, and Matthew 28:19, telling us to GO make disciples. We should all reach out, and DO MORE. Materialism is an act of Satan. 'Where your treasure is, there your heart will be.' The 4th talk given by the DO. They don't half keep the DO and CO busy at these assemblies. He said that after an Assembly everyone will think 'I am so upbuilt, I could never leave Jehovah!' But then everyone who eventually leaves, or is DF'd will go to a last ever assembly, and may say 'I will never leave Jehovah!' So we were told not to get complacent. Personally, I can't wait to leave, and I hope this is my LAST assembly! He finished by stressing the need to DO MORE, in such urgent times. Finally finished writing it up! Thanks for your replies so far. I hope this helps others who have to go, as reading the Convention reviews helped me after I went. I'm stuck in for now, as I don't want to lose my family, and want to stay in whilst I build up a support network outside the Organisation. I still have little contact outside of the Org. But meanwhile, it's been over a month since I went out on the Service, I haven't answered in a while, and I haven't donated since June, nor do I intend to ever again. I may still be active, as I still report, but as far as the Society is concerned, I'm useless. I'm certainly not going to be exercising the urgency demanded from this weekend! Love to you all, Zico
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49
"Store up... treasures in heaven." 2007 Circuit Assembly review
by Zico ini had my circuit assembly last weekend.
it was absolutely mind numbing, but i took extensive notes, and i thought i'd share the key points with everyone here for your reading pleasure.. .
i feel i'd made a lot of progress since my convention in june.
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Zico
Sunday Afternoon 'How can you survive Jehovah's day of fury? ' Public Address.
This was the third talk given by our District Overseer.
Jehovah is furious at the wicked ones!
His day, is not a literal day, but means the Great tribulation.
He said the bible describes this day as one of bitterness, distress, anguish and gloom, and that it would be fear-inspiring. But then told us there was no need to be afraid... Seemed pretty terrifying to me.
How do we know it's coming soon? The signs in the bible! He said there were international signs, and personality signs.
For international signs, he didn't use Jesus signs in Matthew and Luke. He used Revelation 6, which I found quite interesting.
He spoke about the four horsemen. Jesus being on the white horse. The fiery-colored horse meaning war, which had 100 million deaths in the 20th Century, to show how close we were. Then, the black horse, famine, which he said had 1 billion starving ones. And the pale horse, all other causes of death. Things like natural disasters, and those wild beasts, who are a real problem in other parts of the world apparently.
For personality, he used the famous 2 Timothy 3:1-5.
Those we preach to have a pre-flood mentality, but the signs prove how close we are!
He then spoke about Revelation 17:8-14, and said we could never understand it without God's holy spirit, given to his appointed channel.
5 world powers had fallen
One was in power: Rome (At time of writing)
One was yet to come: Anglo-America (Current king)
Then an 8th king would come out of that. The UN.
He described the UN as a world government, which even had it's own army! I think he needed to read up on what they actually are.
During this time, the person sitting next to me said 'I think he's going to reveal the last King of the North!' I'm sure you'll all be surprised to hear, that he didn?t.
He pointed to Daniel 12:4. to say, that the very fact we are able to understand these passages is proof that we are in the time of the end. That the end of this system is very close!
Ezekiel 7:19 - Money will become useless at the day of fury. Money can be a distraction from our service to Jehovah (WTBTS)
Laodiceans: They were lukewarm. Will lukewarm ones survive? No! We need to be urgent, as the end is SO close!
Our salvation comes from prayer, study and field service! We would also be judged in 3 main areas. In our speech, conduct and attitude .
Speech.
Matthew 12: 36, 37 - We'll be judged by how we speak. No swearing! Or ?unclean? speech!
Conduct
1 Peter 2:12 - We bear Jehovah's name, so we have to stand out. This includes through dress and grooming. No short skirts, or spiky hair! Our salvation depends on it!
Attitude
Ezekiel 12: 27, 28 - We can't get complacent. When we are told the 'end is near' we shouldn't ever say 'But you've been saying that for years.' We are getting closer, and we must keep our sense of urgency.
Many have lost their sense of urgency, and stopped going to meetings. The DO asked: 'What will happen to them in Jehovah's day of fury?' The answer was found at Luke 21: 34-36. Those who withdraw will be 'ensnared not spared'
Remember, the end is SO close! For the second time this assembly, we were told it might even come tomorrow! (Now yesterday) We can almost reach out and grab it! We must DO MORE to get through it! -
49
"Store up... treasures in heaven." 2007 Circuit Assembly review
by Zico ini had my circuit assembly last weekend.
it was absolutely mind numbing, but i took extensive notes, and i thought i'd share the key points with everyone here for your reading pleasure.. .
i feel i'd made a lot of progress since my convention in june.
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Zico
Sunday Morning I hope you're not too tired yet!
'Examining the Scriptures daily'
Do more.
'Symposium: Be rich toward God... In what sense?'
In the sense that we need to put Jehovah (WTBTS) first.
We need to be like the merchant seeking that fine pearl. That while many would think he was stupid for putting all his eggs in one basket, we should imitate him, and put all our eggs in Jehovah's (WTBTS's) basket. Depend on Jehovah! He'll provide!
He continually stated the System could end very soon. Maybe even tomorrow! Since tomorrow was Monday, this has now passed.
'Honor Jehovah with your valuable things.'
We are living in urgent times, and must use those times to the full, in service to Jehovah (WTBTS) I'm seeing a common theme in the talks here.
An interview with an elder, and how he finds time to go on Shepherding visits, to pre-study, and have an important role on the Regional Building Committee. I'm sure his wife appreciated his efforts in serving his Congregation and the Organisation in his free time.
We were also told not to watch too much television. It wastes precious study time.
There was another interview with an elder who said that the brothers were very generous to give of their time and money to Jehovah. (WTBTS)
'Build with fire-resistant materials.'
He had an interview with a brother, who spoke about how he had helped his 2 sons to go to Bethel, and his 1 daughter to pioneer, by teaching them to put spiritual things first.
There was also an interview with an elder who had been baptised 42 years! He was convinced it was the Truth by the 7 times, and 1914. I bet he's never heard of the 586/7 date.
'Always choose the good portion.'
We are SO close to the end. We need to keep on track. SO close. SO very close.
We need to be urgent! And choose Jehovah (WTBTS) who is the good portion!
Another Demo where a brother is offered a new job and turns it down to do more service. Why use this demo twice in the same assembly? Why EVERY assembly? The Governing Body needs someone with a bit more imagination.
Watchtower Summary.
See Blondie's excellent review: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/120525/2126926/post.ashx#2126926
Sorry for going off the point a little here, but once we got to Paragraph 9, which was about Malawi, I got so mad I had to leave. I hadn't pre-studied or read Blondie's comments, so I wasn't prepared for it, and it annoyed me so much. I thought I was going to be sick I was so angry. The Society allowed those poor brothers to go through so much, all for a party card, and then refused to allow the Mexican brothers to sing at meetings, or pray, so that they wouldn't lose their buildings. They allowed members in Malawi to die, and praised them for not compromising, but demanded that Mexican members compromise so they wouldn't lose their buildings. They are evil, and anyone who claims otherwise only needs to look at this example. They don't care about us, they only care about money and buildings, and it makes me sick.
'Giving attention to the needs of the circuit.'
I missed the beginning of this talk. It seemed like a major local needs. It was given by the CO.
We were told to do more, and act with urgency.
The CO spent about 10 minutes dealing with the dangers of the Internet. Mostly, we were told to avoid pornography, but chatrooms and apostate sites were given a mention. I guess the Internet must be a problem in our circuit.
He finished by talking about being careful when investing with other brothers. I'm not surprised, since there's been so many cases of brothers screwing more vunerable ones recently. -
49
"Store up... treasures in heaven." 2007 Circuit Assembly review
by Zico ini had my circuit assembly last weekend.
it was absolutely mind numbing, but i took extensive notes, and i thought i'd share the key points with everyone here for your reading pleasure.. .
i feel i'd made a lot of progress since my convention in june.
-
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Zico
Hi everyone,
I had my circuit assembly last weekend. It was absolutely mind numbing, but I took extensive notes, and I thought I'd share the key points with everyone here for your reading pleasure.
I feel I'd made a lot of progress since my Convention in June. I was very confused at this time, and following 3 days of mind control, I didn't know what to believe, so I was worried I'd get a 'What if?' feeling from this assembly again, but I had no problems seeing through this nonsense.
If you want to see a programme of the weekend, see Blondie's post here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/120285/2122518/post.ashx#2122518
This is very long as it's a review of the whole 2 days. If you want to shorten your reading, I recommend just reading the highlights, which in my opinion were the Dedication and Baptism talk Saturday morning, and the Public talk Sunday afternoon. 'How can you survive Jehovah's day of fury? Saturday Morning. 'Store up treasures in the right place'
This talk was given by my District Overseer. Nothing overly special. He said storing something meant putting it in a safe place, and that we couldn't be guaranteed our money was safe anywhere on Earth, as investments can go wrong etc... he used examples of hyper-inflation in Germany after WW2, and more recently, Zimbwabwe, as if they really have anything to do with us...
He did say 'There's nothing wrong with saving' and went on to say how it was ok to save money for things such as retirements etc... but then threw this nice little statement in: 'Many parents save up money to allow their children to go University, and many parents in the truth save up money to allow their children to pioneer once they finish school.'
His point was that Earthly treasures are short-lived, compared to Heavenly treasure, which was a good name with Jehovah. This was gained, of course, by faithfully serving Jehovah (WTBTS)
'How are many storing up treasures in heaven?'
The speaker made it quite clear that only JW's were storing up treasures in heaven. And this was being done... by Service of course!
We were told to ask ourselves? 'Are we doing enough?'
There were 5 interviews. 4 with pioneers, and 1 older one who used to be a pioneer. They all spoke about how they simplified their life and changed their situation to allow them to DO MORE for Jehovah. (WTBTS) All were of course, the happiest people in the world, and truly blessed, since they were pioneers. I tell you what though, I didn't feel like the happiest person in the world when I was a pioneer, I felt constantly exhausted, and disappointed that I wasn't a good enough teacher to even start a bible study.
Dedication and Baptism
We had ONE baptism this assembly! Incredible, over 500 in attendance, and just ONE baptism. And who was it? A young teenage girl who had been brought up in 'The Truth'
The speaker described the baptism as a promise to Jehovah. A promise to serve him (WTBTS) He said that wicked people couldn't keep promises, and said we would not want to become like these ones by not keeping our dedication promise!
He also said those not keeping their dedication are stupid, and used some OT examples of this. Most notably, the nation of Israel, which he described as a 'stupid apostate nation.'
Rather interestingly, he broke down the questions and stated their meaning. I waited in great anticipation to see how he would describe that controversial second question.
The first question is: ?On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?
He said you had to have faith that Jesus died for us. Nothing controversial there, and that we need to have repented of our sins and rejected the world.
The second question is: Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization?
I actually thought of Auldsoul, and his post here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/118130/1.ashx when I heard this. First he spoke about how it is necessary to acquire wisdom and knowledge of Jehovah and the bible before baptism.
'And the second part of the question...' He first said it was absolutely imperative that we have faith in God's Organisation, but then I was really taken aback when he said 'This isn't just blind faith in a faceless Corporation' WHAT? Of course it is! That's exactly what they demand isn't it? Sadly, he didn't expand on what he meant here, and went on to say that it also meant loving your brothers and sisters, and taking council from the elders.
In his prayer he talked about faith in Jehovah and his spirit directed Organisation. Except for his obligatory mention at the end of the prayer, Jesus was never mentioned. Saturday Afternoon: Experiences:
One pioneer brother, and one pioneer sister spoke about their success from inviting people to the Convention with those flyers, and the studies they'd started etc... The interviewer said 'It just shows that there are still people out there searching for the Truth.' This was certainly evident during the baptism talk.
'Keep on seeking first the kingdom... and all these other things will be added to you.'
Nothing too interesting here. Put all your faith in Jehovah, and depend on him. DO MORE, and he will look after you.
'Keep on seeking first the kingdom... in troublesome season.'
This guy was very well trained in Watchtower speak.
Troublesome season of course meant preaching in every season, no matter the weather...
He quoted 'a bible commentator, but never gave his name (sound familiar?) I didn't get the whole quote written down, but did get that it meant a 'Restless, earnest work' 'in bitter opposition.' The work the Society puts us through can certainly be described as restless.
He also said, that whilst context suggested the 'troublesome season' scripture meant teaching within the Congregation it 'No doubt' applied to all preaching work. No doubt, you can spot the Watchtower speak in this paragraph.
And of course, he stressed that Satan was desperate for us to fail, and was clearly out to get us.
He had 3 interviews.
The first was a sister who had been baptised for 63 years! She had managed to remain faithful by prayer and study, and asked to express her appreciation to Jehovah and his Organisation. No mention of Jesus.
The second was a brother who had been baptised for 40 years. He struggled after his son left the truth, and his wife died, and he wanted to give up, but loving association of the brothers helped him.
The last was a sister who had been baptised at my Convention in June. She spoke about how her disfellowshipped mother had left her family, and how she had to stop contact with her... And then how she was offered to join a County running team. She described this as a trick of Satan's, and said that after seeing her mother and older brother leave, she would not fall for it. I know this girl, I'm not sure of the details of the situation with her mother, but I've seen her run, and she is fast. I'm sure she got offered a place in the running team because of Satan's influence on their scouts, and that it had nothing to do with her natural running ability.
The name Jesus, was never actually mentioned in this talk.
'Keep on seeking first the kingdom... in the face of economic hardship.'
Interivews with brothers who looked like losing their job, but put Jehovah (The WTBTS) first, and how everything turned out ok for them!
A demo with a brother who turns down a promotion to keep Jehovah (WTBTS) first. We get these EVERY assembly/Convention. I wish they could write some new material.
Jesus was not mentioned in this talk.
'Keep on seeking first the kingdom... despite advancing age and limitations.'
The speaker went on about how many thought that the New System would have come by now. He said they were disappointed when their predictions about their children not going to school, not going to work, or them not reaching retirement in this System were false. I wonder where they got these crazy ideas.
Some interviews with older members, telling us how they dealt with illness and problems in old age, but still managed to get to meetings, do service etc...
Jesus was not mentioned in this talk.
'Highly esteem riches greater than the treasures of Egypt.?
This talk was given by my Circuit Overseer. He used the example of Howard Carter, an archaeologist who found lots of ancient Egyptian treasures, to show that Egypt had a lot of gold.
He said Egypt was symbolic of worldly people, those who put their faith in money rather than Jehovah. And that all the world has to offer is money and entertainment (What a wicked thing to offer!) And couldn't compare to the greatest treasure on Earth, knowledge of God, provided, of course, by God's appointed channel.
For the 4th talk running, the name 'Jesus' was never mentioned.
'Fulfilling our treasured ministry despite trials'
This was another talk by the District Overseer. He said that the angels wanted to do the Ministry, but Jehovah gave us the work, and that we should therefore see it as a privilege.
We need to be DOING MORE. Doing our most to please Jehovah (WTBTS)
He gave two experiences. One of a brother in a Central American country where the work is banned, who gave a tract to a guy at a bus stop. He seen him again several months later, and the guy had joined a Congregation, and was planning on being baptised. All because of one tract! Another was of a sister in Australia, who also started a bible study, through discussions on a bus with another girl.
He finished by emphasising that our faithfulness to Jehovah (WTBTS), will result in a place in the New System. -
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thirdwitnessCan you Scripturally support JW dogma?
by AuldSoul inthirdwitness,.
my father, who sat on his first judicial committee when he was 17 and has been and "elder" ever since, couldn't provide scriptures to support some very basic teachings of jehovah's witnesses.
our current circuit overseer could not either.
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Zico
Thirdwitness will never respond to this thread because he can't respond to it. I've challenged him on the UN thread, and via PM, to discuss the Mexico/Malawi issues, but he's ignored that challenge as well. Even on threads where he does post, he ignores any argument he can't deal with.
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Why we should be glad WT apologists post here
by Lady Lee inno i haven't lost all my marbles -- yet.
they serve as reminders of what we have left behind and never want to go back to.people who have some doubts or questions about the wts and come to this board can see for thewmselves how jws don't have answers for everything.
in fact they have a very hard time defending their faithi have yet to see any person post here who has seen the real truth about the wts; teachings turn around and say, "yes i'm going back even if i know they are wrong.
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Zico
No. 2 is the reason I don't believe the Watchtower Society teaches the truth anymore.
Thanks Scholar! -
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Street Witnessing in Conyers, GA (rather long, but IMO cool experience)
by AuldSoul inthis is a long experience, i am trying to get it down while still fresh in mind.
my hope is that some might be aided in their approach to jws by reading this, but i dunno.
read if you want to, don't read if you don't want to, and that way you'll have no business being annoyed by my having posted it.
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Zico
Hi Auldsoul,
Thanks for your post. It was very interesting, and I do feel I learned something from it. However, I have a question about something you said.
When she said that we were to treat disfellowshipped ones as men of the nations, and tax collectors, you replied by giving examples of how Jesus treated the men of the nations and tax collectors in a kindly matter. Were you saying that when Jesus said that this is how we were to treat sinners, he meant we were to treat them as he treated tax collectors and men of the nations? Not as outsiders, as others did, but the same as everyone else?
If this is the case, what then, did Paul mean when he said not to eat with such a man? Who was he referring to? If he's saying not to eat with sinners, and Jesus is saying it is ok, isn't this a contradiction?