Posts by Zico

63

Predestination?

by Zico in

predestination is something ive been thinking a bit about of late, mainly due to a wt article on the subject printed in the may awake, which i read after skimming through the magazine at the weekend.

i believe the wt reasoning on the subject is that god has the ability to see into the future, but that he chooses not to look into the future, as it would negate our free will, although the recent may article was more a criticism of predestination, and although they didnt assert their own position, what struck me from reading the article, and contemplating the wt article in general is that they seem to focus on time a lot, and its this part where the wt idea of predestination seems to fall down to me.

if god created the universe and everything in it, as a jw would assert, this would also mean he would have had to have created time (which is a product of our universe) and so before god created time, it, obviously, wouldnt have existed, and without time, there cant be a past, present and future.

Zico

Gumby,

I wonder at what point God could have restricted himself, if he didn't exist at a point?

I did note in this thread, that predestination raises further questions about God's morality, I hope someone will try to deal with your post, as I wouldn't know how.

40

Symbolism in Revelation Points to the Watchtower - Leolaia HELP

by jgnat in

we're studying rev.

grand climax, chapter 14 (revelation 4:5).

amazingly, tongue-in-cheek, much of the symbolism points to the watchtower.

Zico

I read somewhere... I can't remember where: John wrote Revelation at a time when Christians were being persecuted by Romans, so the book was very anti-Roman, and John possibly wrote it then as a book predicting the downfall of Rome (Babylon the Great) but wrote it in 'symbols' and 'visions' so that any Romans reading it wouldn't understand, but using language a Christian at the time would understand. In that case, I doubt the writer intended it to receive interpretation 2000 years later. I don't know if it's right, but it makes sense to me.

34

If you could repeat your life.

by DJK in

jw
friends

sorry for the edit.

this may have been a topic before.. i got the idea for this from crumpets thread "if i could make your dreams come true what would they be?".

i have been asked many times "if i could go back in my life and change it, what would i do?

Zico

If we go back in time do we get to keep our current minds and way of looking at things intact? As how else would we remember what we travelled back in time for, and know how to change the thing we wanted to? In that case, we’d still have all the memories of the things we learned. If we just got sent back to the same position, we’d probably make the same decision again. If I can go back in time and see the world from my beginning as I do now, I think I’d like to go back to the beginning and do it all over again, because you could make it so good. If we go back in time without being able to remember why, and yet we have some mysterious force guiding the one action we wanted to change, I’d go back to February of this year, and this time, I’d definitely ask her out.

30

If I could make your dreams come true what would they be?

by Crumpet in

jw
friends

5go's thread about atheists returning to god (or vomit as gregor puts it so well .

i would like everyone to have at least one long held dream or ambition come true.

or are you lucky enough to have made your dreams into substance already?.

Zico

Wouldn't the dream somehow seem empty if you couldn't achieve it on your own?

63

Predestination?

by Zico in

predestination is something ive been thinking a bit about of late, mainly due to a wt article on the subject printed in the may awake, which i read after skimming through the magazine at the weekend.

i believe the wt reasoning on the subject is that god has the ability to see into the future, but that he chooses not to look into the future, as it would negate our free will, although the recent may article was more a criticism of predestination, and although they didnt assert their own position, what struck me from reading the article, and contemplating the wt article in general is that they seem to focus on time a lot, and its this part where the wt idea of predestination seems to fall down to me.

if god created the universe and everything in it, as a jw would assert, this would also mean he would have had to have created time (which is a product of our universe) and so before god created time, it, obviously, wouldnt have existed, and without time, there cant be a past, present and future.

Zico

Ross: That was a good post, and I appreciate your input. Perhaps my posts in this thread show a throwback to my JW thinking, where doctrine does matter. (Or perhaps just human nature to try to comprehend the incomprehensible?) Maybe Renee's friends:

"It doesn't really matter -- we'll find out one day"

Weren't 'copping out' of the issue as much as it might appear eh?

63

Predestination?

by Zico in

predestination is something ive been thinking a bit about of late, mainly due to a wt article on the subject printed in the may awake, which i read after skimming through the magazine at the weekend.

i believe the wt reasoning on the subject is that god has the ability to see into the future, but that he chooses not to look into the future, as it would negate our free will, although the recent may article was more a criticism of predestination, and although they didnt assert their own position, what struck me from reading the article, and contemplating the wt article in general is that they seem to focus on time a lot, and its this part where the wt idea of predestination seems to fall down to me.

if god created the universe and everything in it, as a jw would assert, this would also mean he would have had to have created time (which is a product of our universe) and so before god created time, it, obviously, wouldnt have existed, and without time, there cant be a past, present and future.

Zico

Hi Lore, I was aware when I wrote the post that time as ‘a product of our universe’ was an over-simplification, but the science of time wasn’t really my focus. Your first theory was the one I had in mind whilst I wrote the post though, my thinking being that time would have been created at the time that the universe was created. I’m having difficulty perceiving time as a ‘concept’ so I’m going to have to stick to the first theory for now, for fear the discussion going over my head.

To the point that a belief in god is almost ridiculous

Almost but not quite?

I don't think I need to elaborate on that statement... just try thinking about it for a while.

You may have over-estimated me here Lore, can you elaborate please?

63

Predestination?

by Zico in

predestination is something ive been thinking a bit about of late, mainly due to a wt article on the subject printed in the may awake, which i read after skimming through the magazine at the weekend.

i believe the wt reasoning on the subject is that god has the ability to see into the future, but that he chooses not to look into the future, as it would negate our free will, although the recent may article was more a criticism of predestination, and although they didnt assert their own position, what struck me from reading the article, and contemplating the wt article in general is that they seem to focus on time a lot, and its this part where the wt idea of predestination seems to fall down to me.

if god created the universe and everything in it, as a jw would assert, this would also mean he would have had to have created time (which is a product of our universe) and so before god created time, it, obviously, wouldnt have existed, and without time, there cant be a past, present and future.

Zico

Those are some pretty clear scriptures, which I don't think a JW could deal with. In Romans 9, it seems Paul gave basically a similar answer as those other people gave to you:

10Not only that, but Rebekah's children had one and the same father, our father Isaac. 11Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God's purpose in election might stand: 12not by works but by him who calls—she was told, "The older will serve the younger."[d] 13Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."[e]

14What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15For he says to Moses,
"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."[f] 16It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."[g] 18Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

19One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" 20But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' "[h] 21Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?

22What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? 25As he says in Hosea:
"I will call them 'my people' who are not my people;
and I will call her 'my loved one' who is not my loved one,"[i] 26and,
"It will happen that in the very place where it was said to them,
'You are not my people,'
they will be called 'sons of the living God.' "[j]

In summary: 'It's for God to know, and us to find out' ... ?

4

...a mere young child will play at the hole of a Cobra

by sinis in

looks like these folks are getting a headstart on bible prophecy.... http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d3b_1178524471.

Zico

Even though I'm going to assume that cobra must have had it's teeth removed or something, I still have to wonder why those people would allow a baby to do that?

63

Predestination?

by Zico in

predestination is something ive been thinking a bit about of late, mainly due to a wt article on the subject printed in the may awake, which i read after skimming through the magazine at the weekend.

i believe the wt reasoning on the subject is that god has the ability to see into the future, but that he chooses not to look into the future, as it would negate our free will, although the recent may article was more a criticism of predestination, and although they didnt assert their own position, what struck me from reading the article, and contemplating the wt article in general is that they seem to focus on time a lot, and its this part where the wt idea of predestination seems to fall down to me.

if god created the universe and everything in it, as a jw would assert, this would also mean he would have had to have created time (which is a product of our universe) and so before god created time, it, obviously, wouldnt have existed, and without time, there cant be a past, present and future.

Zico

Predestination certainly raises some difficult questions on God's morality Renee, which is perhaps why many Christians (such as the ones who tell you that it doesn't matter) and also the Jehovah's Witnesses, tend to avoid it.

I wouldn't know how to deal with this either, but I think it's a cop out to say that it means God can't have predestined us.

63

Predestination?

by Zico in

predestination is something ive been thinking a bit about of late, mainly due to a wt article on the subject printed in the may awake, which i read after skimming through the magazine at the weekend.

i believe the wt reasoning on the subject is that god has the ability to see into the future, but that he chooses not to look into the future, as it would negate our free will, although the recent may article was more a criticism of predestination, and although they didnt assert their own position, what struck me from reading the article, and contemplating the wt article in general is that they seem to focus on time a lot, and its this part where the wt idea of predestination seems to fall down to me.

if god created the universe and everything in it, as a jw would assert, this would also mean he would have had to have created time (which is a product of our universe) and so before god created time, it, obviously, wouldnt have existed, and without time, there cant be a past, present and future.

Zico

Sorry 5go, I'm not sure what you're getting at here?

'If you believe time travel is posible then you do if your like me then it is hogwash.'

Then you do what?