Predestination?

Zico

Predestination is something I’ve been thinking a bit about of late, mainly due to a WT article on the subject printed in the May Awake, which I read after skimming through the magazine at the weekend. I believe the WT reasoning on the subject is that God has the ability to see into the future, but that he chooses not to look into the future, as it would negate our free will, although the recent May article was more a criticism of predestination, and although they didn’t assert their own position, what struck me from reading the article, and contemplating the WT article in general is that they seem to focus on ‘time’ a lot, and it’s this part where the WT idea of predestination seems to fall down to me. If God created the Universe and everything in it, as a JW would assert, this would also mean he would have had to have created time (which is a product of our Universe) and so before God created time, it, obviously, wouldn’t have existed, and without time, there can’t be a past, present and future. As an ‘all powerful’ being, God couldn’t be restricted by one of his creations, so he would still have to live outside of time. From that perspective, how could we not be predestined? For God to live outside of time, he couldn’t just be in the ‘Now’ that man can only be in, and as the society suggests he is when it refers to God ‘looking into the future’ but he would actually be at every point that’s ever happened, and will happen. If not, he’s being restricted by his own creation, and is therefore not all powerful. … Right? Any thoughts?

Narkissos

before God created time

He he...

Zico

Damn it! Edit: I'm not sure how I'd rephrase that sentence... Gosh, it's hard to comprehend a life without time.

Narkissos

Lol. And perhaps it's the best part of the exercise: to realise that mental categories borne by words like "space" and "time" are ultimately unthinkable.

Btw I could have picked up "outside of time" which treats time as limited space....

Zico

Ever wish you could go back in time and reword a post? I hope that the point I was trying to make, that I don't think an 'all-powerful' God could be restricted by time, and that I think the WT's description of predestination suggests he is restricted by time, was clear anyway, even if we can't personally understand how it's possible. (But then we're expected to accept a lot of incomprehensible things when we consider an all-powerful God aren't we?)

dark angle

helo zicko, God must be playing Timeshift. This will give you an idea of what might he be doing. watch the sort movie here. http://timeshiftgame.com/us/ enjoy!!!

reneeisorym

how could we not be predestined?

I've thought about this a lot too. It seems to me that an all-knowing God knew what we were going to choose when he allowed us to be born, and he created us anyway. I don't believe that our choice isn't real though like some seem to think. I believe my choice is real but God knew what I was going to choose and by letting me be born to choose it, he predestined me.

Zico

'I've thought about this a lot too. It seems to me that an all-knowing God knew what we were going to choose when he allowed us to be born, and he created us anyway.'

I agree Renee, he can't be all-knowing, if he doesn't know everything. (Of course!) Even if he doesn't know everything because of his own choice not to. He might have the power to do that, as perhaps he could choose to live within time? But if he chooses to exercise that power, he's not all knowing. (And at what point could he have chosen to exercise that power if he doesn't exist at a point anyway?)

I've just been doing a little more reading on this subject, and I found this Wiki article interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternity

That article pretty much echoes my thoughts (Which date back to Augustine of Hippo!) and, incidentally, uses phrases like 'before time' and 'outside of time' :)

5go

If you believe time travel is posible then you do if your like me then it is hogwash.

Zico

Sorry 5go, I'm not sure what you're getting at here?

'If you believe time travel is posible then you do if your like me then it is hogwash.'

Then you do what?

Predestination?

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