Posts by dozy

49

What was the reason why you were never made an elder or Ministerial Servant

by twinkletoes in

the reason i heard constantly by the elders, as to ones spiritual progress in the organisation was, .

"brothers are appointed by holy spirit.".

if this is the case, why is god speaking to himself when he says in 1 tim 3 v 6 .not a newly converted man, for fear that he might get puffed up with prideetc.. to re-iterate if god appoints elders, why would he give himself this advice ???.

dozy

The methodology of appointing (or deleting) elders & ms is a curious process. Several times I've been on the wrong side of a vote (either in favour or against appointment) and it isn't fun. The idea that decisions are reached unanimously is a convenient fiction - a straight majority vote or tie with the CO being in favour (which he usually is , as he has to put on his report the names of new ms & elders and it looks good if brothers are seen to be "reaching out") suffices. I personally was held back for appointment both as a ms and as an elder for the most trivial reasons and only discovered the real reasons years later. Sadly , communication with the unsuccessful candidate is usually poor - they are rarely told of the actual reason (usually because there is disharmony).

One of the problems with appointments is that if there are any doubts , the line of least resistance is to "give it another six months". This can be repeated an-infinitum with "borderline" or controversial candidates , until the candidate gets fed up and stops trying , or moves away.

Generally speaking , I reckon there are 3 kinds of elders - some who will appoint just about anybody , and who often act as cheerleaders for particular candidates. Most will simply nod agreement with the prevailing view. Some - often the self-righteous ones - would never appoint anyone. I recall asking an elder if Jesus was under discussion to be appointed , would this elder vote in favour of his appointment - and the elder took umbrage at this "slur".

61

JW Reform, It will NEVER happen...

by AuldSoul in

i have read several posts by posters who fervently hope jws will become a mainstream religion, or will become "the truth," or will stop teaching this doctrine, or tweak that one, and "oh, if they would only [fill in the blank].".

such dreaming will, in the end, come to naught.

there are practical reasons why.. (1) the rank and file have no authority over the governing body.. (2) the rank and file do not hold sway over any of the corporate interests.. (3) the vast majority of memorial partakers are not credible in the eyes of the governing body, nor do they have any authority over anything.. (4) the organization shows a willingness to publicly claim beliefs to which jehovah's witnesses do not actually subscribe in order to improve public image (see lisa's interview with j.r. brown), while retaining the same hard-line beliefs in reality.. (5) the governing body is unwilling to relinquish control over the organization, to share authority with underlings (e.g.

dozy

A couple of further factors:

(1) There is a market that exists for an essentially bible based , politically neutral , regulated morally upright religion with specific doctrines (one God , ransom , awaiting Christ's return etc). JWs as dominated by the GB and a handful of "non-anointed" committee members currently occupies that niche and it ain't going to go away. With an existing 6 million members and a steady growth in third world countries , it represents a popular franchise.

(2) There is a tremendous and continual struggle for power between the conservative controlling heirachy and a softer , kinder "helpers rather than masters over your faith" group. Contrast the Watchtower articles which week by week emphasise the Org with the TMS - the current Oral Review questions rarely mention anything to do with the FDS or anything organisational. While the conservatives have long held control and seen off any attempt to usurp their power (notably in the late ' 70s) , they can't stay in power forever and their hand is weakened every second that the clock ticks away from 1914.

The only factor that I would disagree with Eduardo is his suggestion that the 8,000 of "anointed ones" will rapidly decrease. This figure has flatlined at 7000 - 9000 over the last 20 years and I just don't see any decrease happening. A memorial rarely passes without me hearing that another JW has "become anointed" in a neighbouring circuit. The average age isn't about 80 - there are plenty in the 40 - 60 bracket and quite a few "young turks" as well. Assuming an average age of about 60 , to maintain the figure at the present level only requires about 400 "new" anointed ones each year , or 1 in every 250 congregations. Despite all the warnings at every Memorial about not taking the emblems , for various reasons there will always be a few individuals for emotional reasons , or because of predisposition towards a heavenly hope , who add themselves to the list. The miracle is that the figure isn't increasing , due to a rigorous policy of not counting "dubious" candidates.

The GB , to try and ensure its long term survival as an entity , has deliberately embarked on a policy of cherry picking any newly "anointed" on-message CO or DO , bringing them into Bethel and putting them on the various committees. There is no shortage of candidates and it would seem that there is a pool of about twenty possibilities for the 3 or 4 new posts that are required within a couple of years , due to deaths both past and imminent.

61

JW Reform, It will NEVER happen...

by AuldSoul in

i have read several posts by posters who fervently hope jws will become a mainstream religion, or will become "the truth," or will stop teaching this doctrine, or tweak that one, and "oh, if they would only [fill in the blank].".

such dreaming will, in the end, come to naught.

there are practical reasons why.. (1) the rank and file have no authority over the governing body.. (2) the rank and file do not hold sway over any of the corporate interests.. (3) the vast majority of memorial partakers are not credible in the eyes of the governing body, nor do they have any authority over anything.. (4) the organization shows a willingness to publicly claim beliefs to which jehovah's witnesses do not actually subscribe in order to improve public image (see lisa's interview with j.r. brown), while retaining the same hard-line beliefs in reality.. (5) the governing body is unwilling to relinquish control over the organization, to share authority with underlings (e.g.

dozy

While a "root and branch" reform will probably never happen , there are 2 factors which make some kind of change inevitable:

1... 1914 . Ultimately , the Org is running out of time on this one. It is receding rapidly into the past and no longer seems credible. The WTS bought themselves some time in 1995 , but this date is increasingly looking weak and recent Watchtowers have tended to downplay any mention of the date , other than a general "the 20th Century saw the beginning on the last days". I suspect even many of the GB know in their heart of hearts that the calculations leading up to the date are probably suspect.The longer this system goes on (to use WTS parlance) , the more the r & f become restless.

2... Branch Revolutions Many of the individual branch committees , especially those in non English speaking countries , have little loyalty to Brooklyn. It nearly happened before (Dublin in 1982) and it could easily happen again , that a whole branch will disagree fundamentally with NY - perhaps initially over some rather trivial issue - and disassociate itself (as it were) from the central Org.

66

Personality of "Anointed" JWs

by Smiles in

did you notice any similarities in the personalities of "anointed" jws?.

did they use their anointed status for personal advantage?.

were they the most loving person you ever met?.

dozy

Further to previous posts , does anyone know of any JW who became "self un-anointed" (to coin a phrase)? I knew of several JWs who suddenly stopped taking the emblems and admitted that they now felt that they didn't now believe that they were anointed. Perhaps they had had an emotional experience similar to that of a "born again" and eventually felt that this was no longer valid or meaningful. And these weren't just the classic "nutty easter bunnet" anointed menopausal women whom several have alluded to.

There was one very humble , honest sister of the classic "old school" anointed type who used to give a very heartfelt , tangible account of her "anointing" which supposedly happened at the same time as her husband. About 10 years later (her husband had died in the meantime) she confided in the CO that she no longer felt "anointed" and now is just a R & F JW. At least she was honest enough to admit it ( it would have been very easy for her to keep on partaking and enjoying the status it gave her among certain JWs) , but it did create a stir at the time.

34

Where have all the elders gone?

by becca1 in

jw
friends

dozy

Still here - pondering.........

71

Bizarre November 2006 KM

by yakata in

the insert is called "how do i view blood fractions and medical procedures involving my own blood?

" i will attempt to transcribe the more salient points for everyone here.. paragraph 1 (verbatim): the bible commands christians to "abstain ... from blood.

" (acts 15:20) thus, jehovah's witnesses do not accept transfusions of whole blood or the four primary components of blood-namely, red blood cells, white blood cells, platelets, and plasma.

dozy

My take on the purposes of the insert:

(1) The WTS are at pains to establish that the decision (whether or not to accept certain fractions) is the individuals - hence the expression "your bible trained conscience" used liberally throughout. I suspect that this is a disclaimer , possibly influenced by the "tort" article and recent legal cases.

(2) The WTS are worried at the number of JWs who , confused with the complexity of the issue and / or feeling that they have taken the most "spiritual" decision , reject all and any blood fractions and any "conscience" treatments outright. Hence the article attempts to encourage the individual JW to consider carefully the consequences of their decision.

19

WTS account for Britain (2005)

by dozy in

jw
friends

hopefully is available in adobe format by clicking on the link.. http://www.box.net/public/podqx6rrkb.

dozy

This congregation is seriously 'Piss poor' and has to be helped to pay its literature bill. Why would it donate tens of thousands to the WT?

My money would be on a typo then - a figure of 4647 instead of 46476.

19

WTS account for Britain (2005)

by dozy in

jw
friends

hopefully is available in adobe format by clicking on the link.. http://www.box.net/public/podqx6rrkb.

dozy

IBSA now available ... http://www.box.net/public/remqb0utlx

I reckon the property value (in the books at 46 million) is grossly undervalued. In 2001 it was estimated to have a 250 million value and it will have grown since then.

I must admit that I am confused with the 2 organisations and their relationship - anybody help me out here?

I don't think the Scottish info is available - it is a different system in Scotland and the congregations don't submit annual reports.

In answer to Gill's question , assuming the 46K expenditure isn't a typo , then it must have been an item of expenditure solely for that congregation. As expenditure isn't broken down , I reckon it was perhaps a one-off payment to the worldwide work - maybe the cong had a large historical balance in their account. I very much doubt that it was anything dodgy - accounts are read out every month , audited every quarter and checked by the CO every 6 months. You have a suspicious mind , Gill !

19

WTS account for Britain (2005)

by dozy in

jw
friends

hopefully is available in adobe format by clicking on the link.. http://www.box.net/public/podqx6rrkb.

dozy

Its quite easy to access charity records online if you have authorisation to check company records. I'm trying to obtain the IBSA records as these hold the freehold of the Bethel buildings - the WTS of Britain (WTSB) is merely the operating division.

My analysis - it looks like the squeeze on payments for literature is continuing with income down 14% and the payment to Brooklyn down 25%. Conversely , the WTS is doing well from direct donations - up 31%. Congregations and circuits are being encouraged to donate more while no doubt most of the increase is from wills and legacies bulked up by booming property and equity markets. (I know of at least 2 London properties willed to the WTSB to the despair of grieving relatives!)

£25 million in working capital sounds a lot , but in the context of £18 million turnover probably isn?t. It mainly seems to be invested in gilts and bonds - no Rand Corp or Philip Morris scandal here for the conspiracy theorists! Over 800K in admin expenses seems very high , especially as the trustees don?t draw an income. Merrill Lynch don?t come cheap - as their remit is simply to get a 4% increase on capital , perhaps the WTSB would be better off by depositing the funds in a high interest account at the Millihill HSBC!

Note the stress on vague charitable aims - humanitarian relief etc. I wonder how the WTSB manages to square the emphasis on preaching tolerance in a multi-cultural society with the recent tract!

19

WTS account for Britain (2005)

by dozy in

jw
friends

hopefully is available in adobe format by clicking on the link.. http://www.box.net/public/podqx6rrkb.

dozy

I'm trying to post an analysis here.