Posts by Cygnus

: a/ Just another religion
: b/ A high-control group transforming itself into a mainstream religion, and undergoing decades-long painful reform in the process
: c/ A high-control group full of innocent dupes run by people who are also dupes
: d/ A high-control group full of innocent dupes run by evil scheming cult overlords

All of the above.

However, I consider the United States government to also have a share in three of those four characteristics.

: Where are you actually coming from?

I think the anti-JW mentality here and amongst xtian fundies is unbalanced and detrimental to a healthy understanding of just what JWism is about for very many contemporary JWs.

EMan,

: Are you going back in then, Cygnus?

No.

Again, I will point out the only four things that I agree with Witnessism on:

1) you should not murder anybody

2) you should not steal from anybody

3) there is no 3-headed god

4) when you die, you are dead and not living somewhere else

That is all.

Scully,

quoting me:

"If Joel goes back to the JWs, then so do I."

: Looks like he's well on his way.

As did most readers of this board, you completely misunderstood Joel's intentions. He emailed me and told me that I and one other poster here understood what he was talking about.

I guess I just wasn't as hurt by the JWs as many here were, so I can't empthasize with your strong antagonistic feelings. Many of you will remember when I went through a rough period in my life when the JWs helped convince my wife to separate from me. I have to say that during my exodus from the Watchtower 4 years ago I was more confused than anything, and that was reflected in my posts and online activities. I would like to think that the confusion is done away with by now.

21

Email from UN desk shows library card hoax

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

did the watchtower really need to become an ngo with the u.n. to have a library card to the united nations?.

check this out, just received back by a sister via email:.

http://www.thetruthhurts.freeservers.com/wtresponseun.htm.

Cygnus

Well, the Society's motives regarding their UN involvement as an NGO don't affect my life at all.

But this sure seems to be very incriminating evidence. I'd like to see a scan of the letter, however.

(Not that it makes much difference to JWs.... the UN DPI letter plastered everywhere a few months ago was called 'a forgery, an obvious cut-and-paste job' by the JWs I showed it to... LOL)

37

"Stupid...Hateful..Evil.."?

by Englishman in

jw
friends

at first glance, most people would say that there are lots of very good jws around.

ok, we reason, maybe they are a little misguided, but most of them mean well.

we particularly like to think that way about our friends and loved ones who are in the organisation, we dont want to regard them as being unkind and uncaring.

Cygnus

Scully,

You are a good example of an unbalanced JW basher. You apparently have been out of the organization for quite some time.

You're right that when push comes to shove (read: when the JW dissident starts pushing and shoving) the elders will take a rigid stance against the individual causing a disturbance. Some elders definitely take judicial matters too far. Some elders are complete idiots and give very poor advice to the friends.

However, I refuse to believe that in their heart of hearts, JWs as a whole are wicked, manipulative people. They believe strongly in Jehovah, his kingdom purposes, and his organization. They do NOT rejoice or take pleasure in a child being abused and the circumstance being covered over/someone dying from lack of blood/a person being disfellowshipped. A few might because they are overly self-righteous. But as another commenter pointed out, the organization is much different than it was 10/20 years ago. Case in point: Most JWs could not even name three people on the Governing Body. You say that when a GB member gives a speech everyone pays such close attention. LOL. The more elderly GB members simply embarrass themselves on the platform, and the younger ones are certainly met with suspiscion and do not carry nearly the same prestige Schroeder and Franz did in their day.

And if you really and truly think that JWs believe and practice everything the Watchtower says (especially those from 50 years ago!), then you are REALLY out of touch.

37

"Stupid...Hateful..Evil.."?

by Englishman in

jw
friends

at first glance, most people would say that there are lots of very good jws around.

ok, we reason, maybe they are a little misguided, but most of them mean well.

we particularly like to think that way about our friends and loved ones who are in the organisation, we dont want to regard them as being unkind and uncaring.

Cygnus

Eman,

Don't confuse what is written in decades old Watchtower with what contemporary JWs believe or feel.

37

"Stupid...Hateful..Evil.."?

by Englishman in

jw
friends

at first glance, most people would say that there are lots of very good jws around.

ok, we reason, maybe they are a little misguided, but most of them mean well.

we particularly like to think that way about our friends and loved ones who are in the organisation, we dont want to regard them as being unkind and uncaring.

Cygnus

Scully,

: you leave out very important information.

: in order to be a JW in good standing, one must accept the teachings unique to JWs. Such as, but not limited to:

a) Armageddon is just around the corner and will wipe out everyone and anything that is at cross-purposes with the WTS/JWs;

I would say that most contemporary JWs do not believe this.

b) the use of Blood for life-saving medical purposes is wrong and evil;

Wrong. It depends on what sort of use of blood.

c) Children do not deserve to be heard when an elder molests them;

Whether you like it or not, that is not JW policy.

d) Disfellowshipping is a loving thing;

JWs express regret over someone's DFing, not rejoice. If the higher-ups did away with the shunning, JWs worldwide would be thrilled.

e) Expelling and shunning are loving things;

Same.

f) the Faithful and Discreet Slave is infallible, and to point out otherwise results in (d)and (e), also Faith = Works;

JWs disagree with certain tenets of the FDS all the time. They just do not go around advocating their disagreements.

g) the Governing body is dispensing spiritual food at the proper time;

That is one unique tenet of JWism. But most JWs do not even know who the Governing Body members are. Ask a JW who is on the GB and they might give you two names. Maybe.

h) Heaven is only open to 144,000 Humans;

True, but most Christian religions also restrict heaven to elect believers.

i) Independent thinking is wrong;

As it is in many corporations or government institutions.

j) Jehovah will take care of problems within the organization in "his due time";

Not unique to JWs at all.

k) Koala bears are good examples for parents to follow in disciplining their children;

Oh?

l) disfellowshipping is a Loving provision;

Repeat.

m) Marriage is the only proper forum for people to express sexuality;

As if JWs are unique in this.

n) the New World Translation is an excellent, accurate rendition of the Holy Scriptures;

I believe it is.

o) Oral sex is bad;

Not bad. Just nobody's business. Do you regularly speak of lapping about your spouse's sex organs in public?

p) Phallic symbols are everywhere;

Not a major topic in conversion with JWs.

q) QUIET PLEASE (signs at assemblies);

Only because many JWs don't know how to show respect. Why do you think the signs were put out in the first place?

r) Relaxation means you should be studying a Watchtower publication instead;

Ridiculous assertion.

s) Salvation is contingent upon association with the WTS/JWs;

Salvation is contigent upon believing in Jesus. JWs are not unique.

t) Time slips must be submitted to be considered approved;

Finally you get one right. Again, most JWs would be thrilled if this was done away with.

u) Unity is redefined to mean 'conformity';

I could show you dozens of Watchtowers which teach otherwise.

v) Variety in thought and belief is a sign of weakness;

So what? If a JW submits to that peer pressure, it is his problem.

w) Women, while making up the majority of followers, have no say in decision-making processes;

Which is how it should be. ;-)

Again, not unique to JWs by any means.

x) eXiting the JWs makes you a bad person;

Not necessarily. Again, not at all unique to JWs.

y) Young People Ask (enough said);

You did get that one right, although again, JW advice to young people isn't nearly as bad as some groups.

z) Zebras are notorious for their high sexual appetite.....

Face it, Scully. You bash JWs because for some other reason besides an objective analysis of their faith. Why not really let us know what it is?

75

Giving Up Smoking

by ballistic in

jw
friends

i'm giving up smoking on the 22nd.

it will be the third time, but this time as part of a government sponsored training course with drugs and patches supplied etc.

anyone else given up and got any helpfull advise?.

Cygnus

I usually smoke 2-3 cigarettes a day. Some days I don't have any. I never smoke more than 5 in a day (unless I am golfing and having beers afterwards... then I might have as many as 8 or 9).

I always feel short of breath in the morning for about 2 minutes. Go through a major coughing spell. Then everything clears up. On the rare circumstance that I had more than 3 the day before, I can't breathe properly for at least 4 hours.

That sucks, but I can't imagine how a pack-a-day smoker gets through it.

The only reason I occasionally smoke is because I can (grew up JW afterall). But I don't particularly enjoy it. And I don't understand the addiction to the nicotine.

In any event, I plan to give up both smoking and drinking pretty soon myself. Wish me luck! LOL

19

Breakfast

by gilwarrior in

jw
friends

i just want to know: what did everyone have for breakfast this morning?

.

i had some oatmeal, two slices of toast with butter, and some orange juice.

Cygnus

Triscuit wheat crackers, sharp cheddar processed cheese, and 5 cans of Labatt Ice beer.

10

Rex's road to Armageddon?

by unclebruce in

jw
friends

in a post yesterday, englishman asked "please name 'just one' atrocity done in the name of atheism".

i offered the crimes of gengis khan, stalin and mao tze tung.

i would have liked a discussion on that, but such as life is on a discussion bored, it never eventuated.

Cygnus

ub,

For a silly fuck, you're pretty smart.

Cygnus, three-fingered typist