organised reform? pfft not in our lifetimes (much like a lot things) however there is a definite undercurrent. people don't feel guilty about missing meetings at all, or not going out on service all that much-my favourite one that the ex "golden boy" uses (left school early, pioneered and worked part time-still a ministerial servant and working to become an elder) uses is "the long term goal is to get back to pioneering" (while he works a good job in sales, brand new car 5 holidays a year and is up to eyeballs in debt). Our hall has not seen any new regular pioneers in 3 years- in fact 3 have come off. people are hedging their bets however, keeping their foot in the door, just in case.
walkaway
JoinedPosts by walkaway
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32
Is There Truly Any "Underground Reform" Going On?
by minimus innot an organized type, at least.
as an elder, i would try to bend the organization's rules so as to be more moderate and give the "sheep" a little more comfort.
but no elder or group of people could organize such a group and stay within the watchtower's (kingdom hall's) walls.
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To Those Who Still Go To Meetings, Do You Sense Anything Different?
by minimus inare people excited by anything in the organization?
are they tired?
mostly missing?
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walkaway
it is the same in our hall. we used to be seen as the "fun" congregation, because we actually were- but people moved away (it is a transient congregation at the best of times). Then a circuit overseer came and put an end to us all going away for weekends (Which we still do funnily enough) and basically pushed alot of my peers out (wish i had gone as well at that point). a lot of the elderly ones are getting tired, people that came in to the "truth" a few years ago are wondering where the big A is, and people that were raised in the truth have taken on this stoic view of things (including my father, the PO, who incidently doesn't have a retirement plan, except the properties that we own, that even he admits was "just in case things don't pan out as we hope). everyone is tired, and getting sick of the propaganda being spewed out by the watchtower. it used to be an undercurrent of unhappiness, not it is a stream, how long until it is a river?
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Curious as to what a wedding at the KH is like...
by Riverwatcher ini don't know why this has popped into my head.
just wondering about j/w weddings.. is there music?
are there any traditions used in the ceremony?
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walkaway
weddings here can actually be quite good fun, ok it is a rareity but i have had some great times at JW weddings. Most weddings here take place before summer, just after winter ie; i am going to 3 weddings in the next three month, already been to one, and they all follow the routine of most worldly weddings, without confetti etc. Drinks reception at the hotel, usually mulled wine or whiskey- tea/coffee if you so desire. While photographs are done. Bars are all run by hotel staff. wine is available, usually 3 bottles per table. Music is ok as well, most have DJ's as bands are crap for the most part. It is traditional for the bride and groom to be "clapped in" by a standing audience etc. We used to have "pot-luck" weddings but now people have money, it isn't unusual for people to spend the best part of €10.000 on theirs. however i find with weddings, the simpler the better.
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How do you feel about people on government assistence?
by free2beme infor a long time, before working with people in this situation, i would have answered this question with .... "i feel for them and i know how degrading it must be, to come to this point in their life to have to depend on the government to sustain them" .
... once i got up close and personal with these people, i have learned that my answer only applies to a small group of those on government assistance.
well from my experience, those on government assistance are more often about taking advantage of the system, then they are about actually being in need of help.
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walkaway
sorry mbut national minumum wage is EUR 8 and those that are making just the minimum wage don't pay any taxes+council housing etc. there is no excuse for unemployment here. that is unless you are a carer etc.The fact is that we have to import another 150000 eastern european workers for the labour force this year to keep the economy growing as it is. The service industry is ever growing here (have you walked down some streets in Dublin or Cork recently). If you want to work you can. according to the latest figures 4.2 % of the 18-65 are unemployed, this includes all on disability etc.
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Guardian site
by Peppermint inhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1687735,00.html
edited to make link clickable ~ scully
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walkaway
it wasn't in todays first edition- is it in print anywhere else?
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53
How do you feel about people on government assistence?
by free2beme infor a long time, before working with people in this situation, i would have answered this question with .... "i feel for them and i know how degrading it must be, to come to this point in their life to have to depend on the government to sustain them" .
... once i got up close and personal with these people, i have learned that my answer only applies to a small group of those on government assistance.
well from my experience, those on government assistance are more often about taking advantage of the system, then they are about actually being in need of help.
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walkaway
i'm posting from a country with *nearly* full employment, basically anyone who wants a job can get one. no one in my hall is without work, none of my neighbours are, and people that i go to uni with all work. Our system works thusly- when you get a wage, your boss pays PRSI stamps on your behalf and then after 3 months you start paying them aswell (this is basically government credit). These can be used for a number of things, primarily if you lose your job or you quit, you can claim "dole" from the government. When you are employed, these stamps take money off your dental bills etc. This really came into its own when a brother in our hall was in a bike crash coming back from work. He had paid his stamps, he couldn't work for months so the government not only gave him his salary, but also paid his hospital bill (which is only 800 euro maximum here anyway). The system here works when you need it to. some people take advantage of it, but if you want to work, you can. so the vast majority of people do. however i will say this, "god bless social-state europe" , esp ireland :-)
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Ireland again
by AuntieJane infinally i think we are going to go to the land of eire!
who on this board lives there,.
and can give me some suggestions?
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walkaway
just one thing, don't call it Eire :-) ireland will suffice, "the republic" at a push but never eire.
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i just had to share
by walkaway ini met a friend of mine for lunch today, and lunch extended into coffee.
now this is a girl from a rural background and always seemed to be doing the right thing.
as coffee progressed she asked me what i thought of the new blood card- we discussed that for a while, then she mentioned another doubt.
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walkaway
of course i'll be careful- we already agreed to be silent about this, perhaps not even talk about it for a while- at the moment it is just doubts, she suggested that she might even be here though. One thing to keep in mind however is that she hasn't been the most regular at meetings for sometimes and has been irregular on service for the last two months-anyway i have to go to work- sigh, thanks for the kind words of warning so far though.
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i just had to share
by walkaway ini met a friend of mine for lunch today, and lunch extended into coffee.
now this is a girl from a rural background and always seemed to be doing the right thing.
as coffee progressed she asked me what i thought of the new blood card- we discussed that for a while, then she mentioned another doubt.
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walkaway
i met a friend of mine for lunch today, and lunch extended into coffee. now this is a girl from a rural background and always seemed to be doing the right thing. As coffee progressed she asked me what i thought of the new blood card- we discussed that for a while, then she mentioned another doubt. I asked her directly "have you been reading these things on some websites" she looked at me as if she had been caught- then i confessed my doubts to her. we spoke for the best part of 11/2 hours about everything 607, time of the end, exclusivity, views on university.......everything! . i really can't believe it- a girl in my own congregation with the same issues that i have and it gets better- she said that another sister and her have been discussing the same things, and i said that i and another brother have been doing the same. It all seems so unreal- it turns out i'm not alone in our hall!!! sorry if this doesn't make much sense- i am just so excited.
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Dinner with College Professor
by RichieRich ini went to the circuit assembly last weekend.
we went up friday, so we could have some time to chill before the assembly saturday and sunday.
our "christian convoy" happened to include a very nice family that is new to our congregation.
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walkaway
this college thing has caused more problems than the society reckoned with, i reckon (i know there are one too many reckons in that sentence). some friends of mine in Bologna said that at their hall half the congregation are either at or involved with university and their circuit overseer made such a big deal about the evils of university both at their elders school and their congregation visit that 1 elder (one of my friends father) and a ministerial servant resigned on the basis that their lifestyles must conflict with the societies standards (one is a lecturer in the history department and the other is getting his PHD in sociology) one is fading (my friends father and most of his family) and the other has gone into underdrive (if that is word). if people stand up like this the world over then there are going to be big big problems, both for the society and people being led by the idiots that make it to elder status. hello from someone getting his bachelors in june and a phd by 2009 :-) richie- i don't know you but i hope that your conversation sparked something in this guys head and got him to reconsider the last 3 years.