i had a look at the wikipedia entry for jehovahs witnesses yesterday and noticed that it wasn't as comprehensive as it once was.. most links to non-pro-jw sites have gone as is anything truly critical or exposing of their beliefs and practices.. last night i added a link to this site to the "other sources" section.
this morning it is gone.. i wonder whether this is some private zealot who has decided to do it or an organised campaign?.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/jehovah%27s_witnesses.
a site on the internet where posts (or whatever they are called on wackypedia) are altered or deleted without the poster's (or whatever they are called on wackypedia) knowledge or permission? and you say you can't find out who did it? i'm shocked. shocked i tell you! what is the internet world coming to?
j2s
have you heard the saying that if everything is going your way you must be going the wrong direction?
well i am going uphill bothways in the snow while wearing my one pair of dry pants lately.
then i called to see if i could get my camera in the show tonight.
sparkplug,
"plano looking women"...that's funny. and more people must speak texan than i thought because no one asked you what you meant by it. in my minds eye i saw the women from "last of the summer wine" on a drunk and disorderly night on the town.
j2s
i was always very cautious with worldly people but of course i trusted everyone in the congregation 100%.
i trusted someone from the congregation with a business deal and got raked over the coals.
its a long and frustrating story, suffice it to say it cost me a lot of anguish, time and money.
in all the cases mentioned i'm sure the bruthers repented, thus making repayment unnecessary. any demand for repayment after the thief has repented is obviously greed on the part of the victim, and will be treated as such by the boe. to continue to call the thief a thief could be construed as slander and will be treated as such by the jc which you will be called in front of to defend yourself recieve your instructions---just get over it.
i wouldn't deal with an elder/brown nosing minesterial servent owned business if i were dying and they were the only business in town that could help me. liars, thieves, and hypocrites.
j2s
don't know about his health, heavanly hope, or housing arrangements. but i think the other thread confirms something i've suspected for awhile...in a society (jwd) where bethel service is valuable ("insider" information) some people will lie about who they know and what they know. and that lie will be believed by people who value connections more than content.
the only bethel insiders on jwd that are imo "real" haven't been on the inside for 15-30 years. and just like the current bethelites wouldn't have touched an apostate with a ten foot pole while on the inside.
accurate inside information doesn't come from the laundry room, it comes from the board room. and there aren't any bethel boardroom insiders on this forum or any other forum on the internet. as the brits say "just my 2p".
j2s
"on the basis of this faith in god and in his provision for.
salvation, have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to do.
gods will henceforth as he reveals to you through.
didn't anyone else answer the second question no? can anyone prove i said yes when i didn't? never joined tms, never reached out for "priveleges", never volunteered to help out at the hall cleanup, refused to go door to door as an "unbaptized publisher", went door to door perhaps 5 times in 10 years. not interested in suing anybody. what association?
just like their religious writings the wtb&ts' legal writings are pretty much a sham. they work not because of their brilliant legallity, but because they have approx. 100 lawyers on retainer and, at least in the united states, the courts are just the kind of cess pool they are comfortable swimming in.
i think this question is just a tricky little way of getting one to say, "yes, you may disfellowship me, or announce me as no longer a jw.", or whatever they might do to purge you from their ranks. personally i don't care what they do. if i'm gone they have been purged---end of story. the other sheep however insists they will have to disfellowship her so that she can keep her friends until that happens and then have her say on many subjects before they toss her. different strokes for different folks
j2s of the we don't need no stinking association class
i have come across some old threads that make various accusations against rayfranz, but i think on the whole he seems a kind and thoughtful person.
he didn't do everything right, and he is no saint as some make out: his expulsion is a bit flatteringly called a "crisis of conscience", but he came to terms with the disorienting situation well and did a service to all involved with the witnesses by giving us a look behind the curtain.
some of the things that people hold against him it seems:.
purps, accepted. and here's to better day for both of us.
j2s
i have come across some old threads that make various accusations against rayfranz, but i think on the whole he seems a kind and thoughtful person.
he didn't do everything right, and he is no saint as some make out: his expulsion is a bit flatteringly called a "crisis of conscience", but he came to terms with the disorienting situation well and did a service to all involved with the witnesses by giving us a look behind the curtain.
some of the things that people hold against him it seems:.
purplesofa,
so what i'm hearing from you is...imperfect man; just get over it. where have i heard that before? it was at the kingdom hall i believe. and not to put too fine a point on it, they left him...he didn't leave them. he didn't leave the gb, they voted him out. he didn't leave the organization, they threw him out. i'm sure he went through a crisis, but i'm not sure it was a crisis of conscience. and your "just get over it" attitude doesn't do anything to convince me it was.
i can't believe your comment to me didn't come straight from the watchtower.
j2s
i have come across some old threads that make various accusations against rayfranz, but i think on the whole he seems a kind and thoughtful person.
he didn't do everything right, and he is no saint as some make out: his expulsion is a bit flatteringly called a "crisis of conscience", but he came to terms with the disorienting situation well and did a service to all involved with the witnesses by giving us a look behind the curtain.
some of the things that people hold against him it seems:.
"...he should not be judged"
in the real world, out side the borg and borg think, we are all judged. i never read his books because by the time i came along all his information was available on the www. if you did and it helped you, i think it is great. and i'm sure that those who have met him are telling the truth about what a nice guy he is. however, that doesn't mean much to me because i haven't, and probably never will, meet him. and i think he should absolutely be judged for his contributions to the WTB&TS. it didn't become the religion we love to hate by itself. it became the religion we love to hate through the contributions of men like ray franz who went along to get along until they couldn't get along anymore. if the present governing body is to be judged as harshly as it is on jwd, and believe me i think they should be judged harshly. then in all fairness ray franz should be counted as the gb member he would still be if they had not gotten rid of him. scripture says...judge not lest ye be judged. in the manner you have judged you will be judged. just2sheep says...i have been judged, and i have been judged harshly. and now it is my turn... whining and crying won't help you because they didn't help me.
just something to think about while making out your "individuals and groups who should not be judged because (fill in the blank).
j2s
i think the real reason family members shun their "loved ones" is not because they love you and think it will bring you back, or that they are being obedient to god, but that you have totally embarrassed them, brought the family name into disrepute and it now brings into question how spiritual they are.. if they shun you, in their minds, they think the elders, and dubs will not think less of them.
its all about what the "neighbours " think not what the bible teaches.. its about pride not love.. what do you think?.
oh and it gives them brownie points to be used at armageddon.......................just in case.. .
garybus,
if we all have one thing in common here it is wishing we could do it over. i know it doesn't seem like it but i grieve for every man, woman and child who has been taken advantage of by this religion. even the ones that really upset me have in their own way been hurt just as much as i have. sometimes i have to remind myself of that.
j2s
mary that is what i thought you meant.
i think the real reason family members shun their "loved ones" is not because they love you and think it will bring you back, or that they are being obedient to god, but that you have totally embarrassed them, brought the family name into disrepute and it now brings into question how spiritual they are.. if they shun you, in their minds, they think the elders, and dubs will not think less of them.
its all about what the "neighbours " think not what the bible teaches.. its about pride not love.. what do you think?.
oh and it gives them brownie points to be used at armageddon.......................just in case.. .
bigtex,
you characterize my description of your late father-in-law as cruel. are you aware that this description is word for word the description you gave in one of your early threads? i didn't know him, you did. you described him. my comment was based on your description. if my online personality bothers you, don't read my posts. i can guarantee that you, and others like you, won't like what i have to say. except for personal attacks on me, that i must defend against, you don't have much to say i am interested in. unlike the kh i have a limited method of defending myself here on jwd through replies like this and i intend to do that.
mary,
in answer to my question did you really mean that no one had done this or did you mean that no one in your family has done this? you can certainly answer for your family and i know other families who feel the same, which really is beside the point i was trying to make. but, to say that no one has done(is doing) this isn't realistic.
j2s
