Rex,
AlanF just feels strongly about what he preaches. He's not really the meany he pretends to be.
Well....maybe.
IW
Posts by IW
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61Alan F's flaming arguments and insults
by Rex inhi alan, .
have you ever looked at the carved up mountains, hills and valleys?????
have examined the remarkable similarity to the mount st. helen's canyon that was carved our very quickly?
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17
Dichotomy of a Schizophrenic God
by Amazing1914 inread at your own risk
dichotomy of a schizophrenic god
the following post was the basis of my arguments in a debate with jim penton in october 2004 at the northwest conference in wenatche, wa.
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IW
Amazing,
In your thread, "The Age of Man and Creation" on Channel C you wrote in part:
Think about the significance of Genesis again: God breathes life into Adam and he became a living soul or spirit in the image and likeness of God. God is not like humans. He lives in the spirit realm. But human spirits are in the image and likeness of God. Salvation is not of the flesh, but of the spirit. We still grow old and die. We still have weaknesses of the flesh. We still sin in the flesh. But, we are made alive in the spirit, first with the token of our being children of God. We are given a new birth, or born again in the spirit. But, our final destination is clearly defined by Paul as being with God in the spirit alone.
Excellent comment. I enjoyed your whole post on that subject by the way.
Would you consider reposting it here? I think many would find it interesting. Just a thought.
IW
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25
Channel C Decides to Stay Open !
by Amazing1914 inccadmin posted a new thread today stating that the cc site will stay open.
it appears that everyone was able to work out some differences and put christian friendship ahead of partisan views and attitudes.
this is nice to see, and speaks well of everyone involved.
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IW
Ros,
Why don't you do something. You have indicated that I should do it differently. What do you do? Is is fair to criticize others for what they do if you're not doing something yourself? What good does it do to criticize here? How about starting a board that serves the exiting Witnesses the way you perceive the need?
Ironically, Ros, I am doing something, I am doing the very thing that Penton and others have done. I am criticizing a religious segment without providing a way out to better pastures.
How about if we turn your post around and put Penton's name in place of me and the Watchtower in place of you:
"Why don't you, Penton, do something. You have indicated that the Watchtower should do it differently. What do you do? Is is fair to criticize others for what they do if you're not doing something yourself? What good does it do to criticize here? How about starting a board that serves the exiting Witnesses the way you perceive the need?"
You see Ros, I do perform a valued function. One which follows in the great tradition of those Christian exJWs who "see" the Watchtower for what it is but feel no need to lead others to greener pastures. Call me an apple which has not fallen far from the tree or an apprentice to the great exJW Christian apologists.
I fell in the mud, Ros. I did not stay a hallowed Christian and with my children go to a local church after the Witnesses. No, I fell Ros, and so did my children. I know exactly what that feels like and I know how very hard it is to come back from that. In a way, I don't know if one can ever fully recover. That's why I asked Jim Whitney to post his history with regard to his own feelings toward the Bible and Christ post Watchtower. I believe it could help some here struggling to return to some beliefs or those lurking and hurting.
Good day to you, Ros.
IW
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25
Channel C Decides to Stay Open !
by Amazing1914 inccadmin posted a new thread today stating that the cc site will stay open.
it appears that everyone was able to work out some differences and put christian friendship ahead of partisan views and attitudes.
this is nice to see, and speaks well of everyone involved.
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IW
Ros,
"Christianity should not depend on Penton or Jonsson or Franz or Channel C."
Yes, Ros, I am very well aware of that. Very well aware.
I have no other comment to make on your post above. It serves no purpose to further discuss what neither of us can or will agree on.
I hope all is well with you and yours,
IW
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25
Channel C Decides to Stay Open !
by Amazing1914 inccadmin posted a new thread today stating that the cc site will stay open.
it appears that everyone was able to work out some differences and put christian friendship ahead of partisan views and attitudes.
this is nice to see, and speaks well of everyone involved.
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IW
To Ros, Penton, Jonsson, Whitney et al.My post on another board:
"I am so happy to have been raised a JW, I would not have wanted it any other way. I am also happy to have left and see for myself the downright confusion and lack of love for the whole association of brothers that exists among prominant exJW Christians. The former taught me about Jehovah, his Son and the Bible, and how the teachings of men can, like a vine, wrap their way around your heart and choke off love for God and brother placing in its stead love for the Org. The latter taught me that good intentions do not a brother of Christ make. That to lead out your brother because you believe his religion is faulty is one thing but to abandon him to the anti-god wolves out there is worse than if you had just left him where he was in the first place."
IW edited to add: I posted the above before noticing your last post, Ros. I will respond to your post forthwith. -
25
Channel C Decides to Stay Open !
by Amazing1914 inccadmin posted a new thread today stating that the cc site will stay open.
it appears that everyone was able to work out some differences and put christian friendship ahead of partisan views and attitudes.
this is nice to see, and speaks well of everyone involved.
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IW
Hello Binadub (aka Ros),
My question is: Why do people have an issue with a forum that elects to focus on a Christian perspective? Why does that bother you?
Doesn't bother me at all. What bothers me is that the prominant exJW Christians on your board do not help the great crowd of exJWs by either posting on a general exJW board or by publishing a book or other publication which helps them to remain Christians. They need association, Ros! Exiting JWs need help to remain Christian. They need more than a "keep warm and well fed," If Penton and the others did so I would applaud your board for what it is, a place for Christian discussion.
But as it is your board is a place for the strong to preach to the choir. JWs exiting are dying Ros, they are spiritually dying. They need help, they need association. They need someone to take the lead. They need someone who cares enough to pubish a simple monthly newsletter of encouragement. They need someone who says to them, "come" rather than "go away."
Penton, Jonsson, Whitney, etc. can do this. They have the know how, the name and the maturity. What does Jesus have to do? Send a bolt of lightning their way in order to wake them up?
The damn Watchtower is dead, DEAD! What matters now are the brothers and sisters in there and those leaving.
HELP THEM! Either allow them to post on your board or encourage Penton and the others to do something to help people who are being destroyed. What good is it to know all about doctrine if we allow our brothers to fall away? To him that was given much, much will be demanded of him. Penton, Jonsson and a few others have been given much. There is a whole crowd out there in need of spiritual food. Just simple spiritual food nothing deep or fancy just some crumbs to sustain them until they can stand on their own. If mature exJW Christians do not stand up to this challenge than let God himself teach them to do so.
Is there something else more important to the Christ than to feed and care for his sheep? No.
IW
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17
Dichotomy of a Schizophrenic God
by Amazing1914 inread at your own risk
dichotomy of a schizophrenic god
the following post was the basis of my arguments in a debate with jim penton in october 2004 at the northwest conference in wenatche, wa.
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IW
Jim,
I thought I read once that you had more or less left Christianity or close to it. Now you have returned. Is this correct? That was the only thing I was interested in learning about. Your journey back to Christ.
IW
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17
Dichotomy of a Schizophrenic God
by Amazing1914 inread at your own risk
dichotomy of a schizophrenic god
the following post was the basis of my arguments in a debate with jim penton in october 2004 at the northwest conference in wenatche, wa.
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IW
Amazing,
Have you posted your Christian journey here? If so I would be very interested in reading it if you would post a link. I have a feeling we may have walked a similar path.
IW
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25
Channel C Decides to Stay Open !
by Amazing1914 inccadmin posted a new thread today stating that the cc site will stay open.
it appears that everyone was able to work out some differences and put christian friendship ahead of partisan views and attitudes.
this is nice to see, and speaks well of everyone involved.
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IW
Hi Amazing Jim,I have been banging my head on the table trying to figure out who IW might me
I'm just an apparition. You'll forget it by morning.
I agree that forgiveness is not a trait unique to Christians. But, it is a trait that a Christian should at least be practicing, if one is going to be true to Christ. I can't speak to the inviting aspect, because the forum is not an open forum, but one confined to those the board own believes will contribute to the focus on Bible discussion.
Amazing Jim, I would see no problem with a closed forum for Biblical discussion if the prominant exJW Christians of that forum also saw fit to post here or on another general exJW forum in order to aid their fellow exiting JW Christians. But they do not dirty their feet here do they. Be honest, would Jim Penton or Carl Olaf Jonsson ever come here and "talk" with the folks here on a regular basis? Would they discuss scripture? No, friend, they would not. Why is that?
She is also a member of the JWD forum, and can see how some have acted. For example, one poster who was kicked off of JWD and sent to another competing forum for his neo-nazi propaganda would not be allowed on CC.
Jim, you are using an extreme example in order to justify the general exclusion of many.
In making selections, she uses her best judgment. I have known Ros for over 13 years, so I do trust her style.
That's good, I'm glad to hear that Jim. It seem though that Jim Penton recently did not trust "her style" all that much.
Channel C was never intended to be a healing station, but more of an expert or serious and experienced student of the Bible. It was intended to function on a different level.
I there a forum where you, Penton, Jonsson, Persson, Ros and other knowledgable exJW Christians post that is intended to be a healing station? Where do you all post to hurting exJWs exiting the Watchtower? Where do you all encourage the great crowd of rank and file JW Christians as they exit their religion? Please post the link!
The recent problems, in my mind, were a tempest in a teapot - especially compared to the flame wars we have had here, or elsewhere. H20 had the best all-time wars.
A tempest in a teapot? Well, no one can prove one way or another what was said because Ros deleted the posts.
My memory of the event: Ros, a Christian, get's upset with Penton, another Christian, because he mentions the U.S. in a posting conversation with you, Jim. Ros gets all upset because she claims Penton is some political nut who in her view will lose it and go on some political tirade. She tells you, Jim, not to be naughty again and she tells Penton that if he posts anything with regard to the U.S. again his posts will be deleted. She posts to Persson all sorts of complaints about a certain "person."
Penton, gets all hot under the collar because he is that "person" she was maligning and calling Ros by her real name denigrates her.....and insinuates her problem is dealing with strong men. Ros replies with an accusation that Penton is anti-feminist.
"I am leaving," posts begin to appear. Ros declares that Channel C will close.
Penton makes a mild attempt at reconcilliation which is rebuffed by Ros. Persson takes the lead in reminding both of their Christian duty to forgive. Both remember.
(I cannot refer to the removed posts so the chronological order of the argument may not be perfect.)
Yep, a tempest in a teapot, a Christian teapot. Name calling, accusations etc., doesn't sound all that different than other boards.
For what it's worth I thought you did well with the evolution discussion. You held your own.
I understood where you were coming from with "schizophrenic" post but like the evolution post, Channel C cannot take that sort of stuff.
Now that I am thinking of it, I will repost my "Schizophrenic" post here on JWD and see what kind of response it gets. That would be an interesting test.
Yes, it would. Likely the atheists would clammor for more!
All in all, IW Gary, and Neon, I understand and agree that your criticism have some good merit. I hope that my explanation has at least mitigated some of the concern, and establish the limited focus of CC, but also gave honest admission of some of the weaknesses.
Yes, thank you.
I may be many things Jim, but one thing I do try to be is honest and forthright. I have posted my thoughts about Channel C, prominant exJW Christians and even you, on H2O.
Mature exJW Christians MUST care for their fellow Christian brothers, Jim. Is there another mission for Christians?
Take care,
IW
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25
Channel C Decides to Stay Open !
by Amazing1914 inccadmin posted a new thread today stating that the cc site will stay open.
it appears that everyone was able to work out some differences and put christian friendship ahead of partisan views and attitudes.
this is nice to see, and speaks well of everyone involved.
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IW
Hello Amazing Jim,I opened a new account here just to post on your thread. Won't be staying long.
Believe it or not I'm glad Ros decided to keep Channel C going.
But as you can see by the posts on this thread Channel C does not have what one would call an inviting Christian reputation.
Ironically, after backstabbing one another the Channel C Christians decide that to forgive and move on would show the world their Christian love. lol Sorry to disappoint them but forgiving and moving on is a human trait, shown many times by the good people on this board by the way, and does not in itself prove one a good Christian or Channel C a good Christian board.
Channel C misses the mark on a grand scale! They exclude most of those who are hurting or are in the greatest need while including the close community of exJW Christian greats and the few who can serve as sounding boards for their posts. (yeah, I know, being a little unfair but not much)
Ros asked you to help atheists. Atheists on her board? lol How many are there? 1 or 2 who are allowed to post? The atheists and agnostics are here Jim. Help hurting Christians here. The righteous have no need of repentance, remember?
Your evolution posts would have gone over much better here, Jim. At Channel C some put hot coals under your feet just for bringing the subject up. Nope, no closed minds over there. Nope, just a bunch of loving and inclusive Christians who love God and brother to pieces, literally.
IW Edited to add: You guys on Channel C really enjoy Biblical text and interpretation debates. Now the discussion centers on what did Jesus REALLY mean by "on this rock." Well, I got something for discussion Jim: What did Jesus mean by "Feed my sheep," was that the FAT sheep or the hungry do you think?