Posts by isaacaustin

he visited me at home a few weeks ago, and as i seem to be getting more comfortable at fading i invited him in and told him i was very concerned over the 607 bce.

Exactly PSac...and also the fact that this is simply an academic date. If secular historians are wrong it is not a big deal...it simply means they are off on some dates. If the WT is wrong, their so-called 7 Gentile Times teaching is not so Biblical after all. Even if 607 were proven correct it does not prove the WT teaching correct- it is still full of ridiculous leaps of logic on every link of scripture combined and conflated to make up the 7 Gentiles Times doctrine.

36

586/7 vs. 607 (another one) Critique my letter please....

by bigmouth in

jw
friends

since moving back to another town i've met up with an elder i knew from way back.

(i met him coming out of a salvation army shop.).

he visited me at home a few weeks ago, and as i seem to be getting more comfortable at fading i invited him in and told him i was very concerned over the 607 bce.

isaacaustin

Ultimate Reality, thank you for posting that...where Josephus agrees with a 70 year babylonian rule over the nations, and Jeru itself laying desolate for 50 years.

36

586/7 vs. 607 (another one) Critique my letter please....

by bigmouth in

jw
friends

since moving back to another town i've met up with an elder i knew from way back.

(i met him coming out of a salvation army shop.).

he visited me at home a few weeks ago, and as i seem to be getting more comfortable at fading i invited him in and told him i was very concerned over the 607 bce.

isaacaustin

Rolf Furuli

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search

Rolf Johan Furuli
Rolf Johan Furuli (born 19 December 1942) is a lecturer in Semitic languages at the University of Oslo

Rolf Johan Furuli (born 19 December 1942 [ 1 ] ) is a lecturer in Semitic languages at the University of Oslo. He became a magister artium in 1995.

He is currently involved in translation of non-Christian religious texts, and is considered an expert in ancient languages. In 2005, he finished a doctoral thesis suggesting a new understanding of Classical Hebrew. This study has been privately published.

Furuli started his studies of New Babylonian chronology in 1984. Based on these studies, he has attempted to defend the view held by Jehovah's Witnesses—of which Furuli is a member—that Jerusalem was destroyed by the Babylonians in 607 BC rather than 587 BC.

Alongside Norwegian, English and Hebrew, he is able to read Akkadian, Aramaic and Greek. He has written works about Bible translation and Biblical issues.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolf_Furuli

36

586/7 vs. 607 (another one) Critique my letter please....

by bigmouth in

jw
friends

since moving back to another town i've met up with an elder i knew from way back.

(i met him coming out of a salvation army shop.).

he visited me at home a few weeks ago, and as i seem to be getting more comfortable at fading i invited him in and told him i was very concerned over the 607 bce.

isaacaustin

Reniaa said:

Hi Bigmouth

It’s not as if all secular evidence contradicts 607 – because it doesn't. The ancient Jewish historian Josephus argued that Jerusalem was empty for 70 years. He also lists the reigns of the Babylonian Kings – a list which curiously contradicts the Cannon of Ptolemy — for reasons that remain unknown.

My reply: Josephus later acknowledged that Jerusalem was desolate for 50 years. So yes, all evidence makes 607BCE impossible.

Reniaa said:

Interestingly, not all experts support 587.

My reply: Right, some support 586.

Reniaa said:

At least one, Rolf Furuli of Oslo University, writes:

“The chronology of Parker and Dubberstein [hereafter, P&D] has been almost universally accepted for the last fifty years. According to P&D, the accession year of Nebuchadnezzar was 605 B.C.E and his destruction of Jerusalem occurred in 587 B.C.E. The conquest of Babylon by Cyrus occurred in 539...”

“ A study of each cuneiform document used by P&D to show in which regnal years of Babylonian and Persian kings intercalary months were added, reveals that 51 percent of the "evidence" used by P&D has no real value, in this author’s judgement . A comparison of 1450 cuneiform tablets dated in the reigns of the Persian kings reveals tablets for most of the kings that contradict P&D’s scheme , which was based on first and last tablet dated to each king. On this basis it is argued that the chronology of P&D should be radically revised....”

“As of present I have reviewed data from about 7.000 business tablets from the New Babylonian Empire. There are so many tablets that are anomalous (from the point of view of the traditional chronology), that the whole scheme of P&D breaks down; each king seems to have ruled longer than P&D says .”

My reply: Dubious as a scholar...he is a JW you forgot to mention...

Reniaa said:

As we can see, at least some experts will support the Bible’s viewpoint against the traditional 587 date.

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/607/appendix.html#sectionb

My reply: Not the case. Furuli is considered an expert in ancient languages NOT Neo-Babylonian chronology!

Very dishonest posting by you Reniaa! Also circular reasoning since you call 607BCE the bible's viewpoint- a notion easily refuted many times here and elsewhere.

172

Top 10 reasons why JWs don't have the truth - please contribute

by oldlightnewshite in

i thought it would be an interesting exercise to ask everybody on here what their 'top 10 reasons why jws don't have the truth' actually were.

maybe we can see some correlating views/patterns/ideas that may help us de-programme the newbies that come on this site.

if eventually most people have an outstanding gripe/concern it'll help everybody understand the ex-jw mindset a little better.

isaacaustin

Actually a reading thru the whole book of Cor will show it was Paul refuting a letter written to the cong stating they had to do certain things. Paul was refuting this assertion here ....sometimes it is a bit difficult to follow as paul is quoting what was said, and then giving his words.

172

Top 10 reasons why JWs don't have the truth - please contribute

by oldlightnewshite in

i thought it would be an interesting exercise to ask everybody on here what their 'top 10 reasons why jws don't have the truth' actually were.

maybe we can see some correlating views/patterns/ideas that may help us de-programme the newbies that come on this site.

if eventually most people have an outstanding gripe/concern it'll help everybody understand the ex-jw mindset a little better.

isaacaustin

Freydo, I agree there. they pick and choose from the Law what they need to use to bolster their own doctrines....like stealing and misapplying the dietary restriction on the eating of animal blood and conflating it, then stringing together with Gen and Acts to make it appear to support their ever-changing 'blood doctrine'

172

Top 10 reasons why JWs don't have the truth - please contribute

by oldlightnewshite in

i thought it would be an interesting exercise to ask everybody on here what their 'top 10 reasons why jws don't have the truth' actually were.

maybe we can see some correlating views/patterns/ideas that may help us de-programme the newbies that come on this site.

if eventually most people have an outstanding gripe/concern it'll help everybody understand the ex-jw mindset a little better.

isaacaustin

Hebrews 13:17
Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.

Reniaa says: Shepherds in leadership roles can I acknowledge be a great force for good or evil and they will be held accountable for this but to just reject them is simply not an option for Christians.

Leaders are not meant to be passive fools either allowing the flock to run amuck. They have to feed/support/rebuke/judge/keep clean the flock and ours do all that.

My reply:

Here is the full text....

7 Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. 8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

9 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings. It is good for our hearts to be strengthened by grace, not by ceremonial foods, which are of no value to those who eat them. 10 We have an altar from which those who minister at the tabernacle have no right to eat.

11 The high priest carries the blood of animals into the Most Holy Place as a sin offering, but the bodies are burned outside the camp. 12 And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood. 13 Let us, then, go to him outside the camp, bearing the disgrace he bore. 14 For here we do not have an enduring city, but we are looking for the city that is to come.

15 Through Jesus, therefore, let us continually offer to God a sacrifice of praise—the fruit of lips that confess his name. 16 And do not forget to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased. 17 Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.

My reply: Verse 7 gives the whole picture, showing verse 17 is not speaking of doing whatever your religious leaders say, but rather to follow their faith and be obedient to them to the extent that what they are teaching is the word of God.

The term translated 'obey' has other meanings as well...such as trusting, being reasonable or open to persuasion:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3982&t=KJV

1) persuade

a) to persuade, i.e. to induce one by words to believe

b) to make friends of, to win one's favour, gain one's good will, or to seek to win one, strive to please one

c) to tranquillise

d) to persuade unto i.e. move or induce one to persuasion to do something

2) be persuaded

a) to be persuaded, to suffer one's self to be persuaded; to be induced to believe: to have faith: in a thing

1) to believe

2) to be persuaded of a thing concerning a person

b) to listen to, obey, yield to, comply with

3) to trust, have confidence, be confident

172

Top 10 reasons why JWs don't have the truth - please contribute

by oldlightnewshite in

i thought it would be an interesting exercise to ask everybody on here what their 'top 10 reasons why jws don't have the truth' actually were.

maybe we can see some correlating views/patterns/ideas that may help us de-programme the newbies that come on this site.

if eventually most people have an outstanding gripe/concern it'll help everybody understand the ex-jw mindset a little better.

isaacaustin

Reniaa said:

Fernando

1/ Romans 16:17
I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.

My reply: Learned from who? About who?

Reniaa said:
Acts 17:11
Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

My reply: The WT says this only applies to persons before they get baptized as JWs.

skipping thru some of your nonsense...

Reniaa said:

7/ We fully accept Jesus's mediatorship of the covenant that involves the 144,000. What we don't do is turn something Jesus instituted as a remembrance of him and his sacrifice and turn it into a canabalistic salvation ceremony from false understanding of Scripture.

Luke 22:19 (New International Version)

19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me."

My reply: So why don't witnesses do what Jesus said to do?

Reniaa said:

9/ I think you seem to be just flaying an authoritive structure here but this is simply not biblical.

1 Corinthians 12:28
And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.

10/ You seem to be an anti-authority person this is not unusual but it simply isn't biblical. shepherds/ positions of authority/ having to make the hard decisions for the whole flock is a biblical theme. How can the 144,000 become kings and priests in the kingdom if they have not first trianed for the job on earth as shepherds?

My reply: What kind of authority and how should it be used?

Reniaa said:

Matthew 24:45-47 (New International Version)

45 "Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put IN CHARGE of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46 It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47 I tell you the truth, he will put him IN CHARGE of all his possessions.

My reply: Parable misinterpretated by the WT...speaking of rewards given at the end...not a 1919 appointment of a false prophet just released from 'Babylonish captivity'.

Reniaas favorite and most misunderstood text:

Leadership is not a evil sin but a biblical requirement.

Hebrews 13:17
Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.

Shepherds in leadership roles can I acknowledge be a great force for good or evil and they will be held accountable for this but to just reject them is simply not an option for Christians.

Leaders are not meant to be passive fools either allowing the flock to run amuck. They have to feed/support/rebuke/judge/keep clean the flock and ours do all that.

7 Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. 8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

9 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings. It is good for our hearts to be strengthened by grace, not by ceremonial foods, which are of no value to those who eat them. 10 We have an altar from which those who minister at the tabernacle have no right to eat.

11 The high priest carries the blood of animals into the Most Holy Place as a sin offering, but the bodies are burned outside the camp. 12 And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood. 13 Let us, then, go to him outside the camp, bearing the disgrace he bore. 14 For here we do not have an enduring city, but we are looking for the city that is to come.

15 Through Jesus, therefore, let us continually offer to God a sacrifice of praise—the fruit of lips that confess his name. 16 And do not forget to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased. 17 Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.

My reply: Verse 7 gives the whole picture, showing verse 17 is not speaking of doing whatever your religious leaders say, but rather to follow their faqith and be obedient to them to the extent that what they are teaching is the word of God.