Drum roll . . .
Posts by besty
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1Interview with an apostate - Mum
by Mum inell us a little about yourself and your family.. .i am an american from the heart of appalachia (tennessee-kentucky-virginia border).
i lived with my grandparents until i was about 11 years old.
both of my grandfathers were fire-and-brimstone country preacdhers.
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A radical direction for the WTS - speculation thread.
by besty inwhat might the wts do to counteract growth stagnation and attrition?.
of course they could ditch certain teachings and practices such as blood, shunning and homophobia.. how about if they closed the kingdom hall network (all proceeds back to mothership) and built out more regional mega-churches?
<assembly halls>.
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besty
That is their ultimate goal.
The ultimate goal of an organization is firstly self-preservation. Usually growth/profitability feature close behind.
They have closed a lot of regional branches recently - whats your take on that in light of your KH in every town theory?
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A radical direction for the WTS - speculation thread.
by besty inwhat might the wts do to counteract growth stagnation and attrition?.
of course they could ditch certain teachings and practices such as blood, shunning and homophobia.. how about if they closed the kingdom hall network (all proceeds back to mothership) and built out more regional mega-churches?
<assembly halls>.
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besty
I don't think they will move to mega churches as control is easier in smaller groups
It was widely speculated the reason for abandoning the CBS was small groups being more difficult to control. If you look at how the talks have become much more manuscript and outline driven with less and less room for personality, it would make sense to continue that trend. This is also borne out by the AGM arrangements to hook up lots of venues to a live event.
I think consolidating to larger venues hides the decline effectively - megachurches maybe a step to far to soon now, I'm thinking 5-10 years out. I bet they have lots of plans for when that compound gets to be finished...
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A radical direction for the WTS - speculation thread.
by besty inwhat might the wts do to counteract growth stagnation and attrition?.
of course they could ditch certain teachings and practices such as blood, shunning and homophobia.. how about if they closed the kingdom hall network (all proceeds back to mothership) and built out more regional mega-churches?
<assembly halls>.
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besty
What might the WTS do to counteract growth stagnation and attrition?
Of course they could ditch certain teachings and practices such as blood, shunning and homophobia.
How about if they closed the Kingdom Hall network (all proceeds back to mothership) and built out more regional mega-churches? <Assembly halls>. All day Sunday worship and weekday events for the whole community. Combine 20 KH's and you could have a vibrant community going...
Follow that up with converting JW.org to a social network - every JW has a profile (approved and moderated). New members are found and converted online only - the bookstalls are pop-up stores driving brand awareness same as any retailer.
What do you think? it fits in well with their property development and donation business model. (they just have to accept a teensy move towards the mainstream in exchange)
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Interview with TD
by TD ini'm not an 'apostate' in the technical sense, but many of these questions did strike a chord:.
tell us a little about yourself and your family.. grandparents were contemporaries of russell.
one pair liked what they heard and were loosely associated with the bible students.
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besty
great stuff TD - thanks for sharing,,,
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Interview with an apostate: besty
by besty intell us a little about yourself and your family.. early 40s married with 2 boys.
scottish born living in london since 1997.
(except for 3 years in la).
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besty
I see the WTS membership continuing to grow. The demographic will continue to gravitate towards blue collar/3rd world. Its not a religion for intelligent converts with Internet access.
Combined with the revolving door of membership attrition, I believe their move to a new compound upstate NY is driven by the new reality of their economic base. The jw.org strategy is interesting. Might they eventually offer online study courses with a minimal affiliation in person required for baptism? "Now man this bookstall for 10 hours a month"...."and if you can make 6/10 monthly meetings that would be awesome"... That could take them back to double-digit growth in a stroke...
The other interesting thing is the cognitive dissonance displayed by members. "The end is coming any day soon now" and "We aren't serving for a date" is an awesome piece of bait and switch.
My role in all this is to make information available that helps JW's think about what truth really is, and what that means for them.
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want to find all the "interview with an apostate" threads in 1 click?
by besty ingoogle this:.
"interview with an apostate:" site:jehovahs-witness.net.
boom done.. thanks..
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besty
kate - it is possible to see Google results without the personalisation they do by default
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want to find all the "interview with an apostate" threads in 1 click?
by besty ingoogle this:.
"interview with an apostate:" site:jehovahs-witness.net.
boom done.. thanks..
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Interview with an Apostate: Cofty
by cofty intell us a little about yourself and your family.. my wife and i are fortunate to live in a lovely little country cottage northumberland in northern england.
we have two children who have both grown up and left home.
our son is a physical training instructor in the royal air force and our daughter works in the historic city of york.. were you a born in or a convert?.
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besty
great stuff cofty - cheers!
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Interview with an apostate: besty
by besty intell us a little about yourself and your family.. early 40s married with 2 boys.
scottish born living in london since 1997.
(except for 3 years in la).
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besty
Tell us a little about yourself and your family.
Early 40’s married with 2 boys. Scottish born living in London since 1997. (except for 3 years in LA)
Were you a born in or a convert?
2nd gen born-in.
Are your parents / family JWs?
Mum and Dad both true believer converts. Dad passed 2006. Mum and brother + sisterinlaw all still hard core. 2 nd gen wife is out. Her dad is out, although not DF’d and her JW Mum is a normal human being.
How many generations have been JWs?
2
Did you hold any position in the WTS? (MS, Elder etc...)
MS from age 21, moved cong and never reappointed due to not being arsed with the routine once I moved to London.
Did you *really* believe in the bible, in spirits (angels, demons)?
Yes I did. Although even as an inactive layabout I still believed, I wasn’t motivated to respect that belief to its natural outcome.
Did you get baptised? When and why?
Aged 16 I was baptized at my fathers suggestion – the peer pressure was overwhelming.
What was the initial trigger that made you start questioning things?
The thought of raising children in such a tedious lifestyle made me start investigating reasons to leave.
Where did you find information? Internet sites? Books?
The Internet - Watchtower Observer, eWatchman, Freeminds and then jwfacts and JWD. Alan Feuerbachers blog was priceless. Also read CoC and ISOCF and TGTR in paper format. Downloaded Captives of a Concept.
How difficult or painful was the process of leaving?
It was very stressful as I was desperate to get my wife out. I knew I was done before she knew I was researching.
Was it a big dramatic exit or a careful quiet fade?
We tried a semi-quiet fade and then some goon-avoidance but we felt moves against us were being orchestrated by my family. In the end we were both DF’d for apostasy, wife in absentia, me in notgivashitia.
Did you convince anyone else to leave with you?
No – I did talk to a few friends and they all dobbed me in, except my BFF who elected never to speak to me again instead.
How were your family relations affected by your decision?
My family took it pretty hard and commenced hardcore shunning, although my Mum seems to be turning a blind eye these days. The cynic in me says she is only there because of the grandchildren, although they may be the loophole she really craves to keep in touch.
Were you or are you still being shunned by those who didn't leave?
Yep. Big time locally. Proper do-not-calls etc. Although bizarrely I did happen to find myself in a bar recently with a very good JW friend right beside me. He looked like he saw a dead man walking. He chatted for 15 mins and made his excuses. All very civil and I will never see him again most likely.
How long have you now been out?
Mentally 8 years or so – technically 6 years.
Was there anything you looked forward to doing when you left?
Freedom to stop living a double life and let the authentic me breathe a little.
What are you most proud of achieving since you left?
Having my wife out with me and together raising two <mainly> delightful little boys who have a decent crack at normality in their childhood.
Is there anything you miss about life in the congregation?
Nothing that wasn’t replaced. Well I do miss my BFF and his wife and family – we had great times together.
Red pill or blue pill? Do you regret waking up to reality at all?
Always honesty above all else – truth and being true to yourself is a one-time chance. This is not a dress rehearsal.
Did you become an atheist or transfer your faith elsewhere?
Insta-atheist. Just add evidence and stir for 20 minutes.
How do you now feel about religion in general?
I believe in freedom of religion the same as I do the freedom to smoke cigarettes. Its not good for you, it irritates others and it should be taxed like any other business.
Do you feel any guilt celebrating xmas or birthdays or doing any other JW "no-no"s?
Not really – although I’m a bit embarrassed about Xmas when the MIL is round the house, as it’s a very in yer face celebration. Specially the way we do it J
Have you attended any face-to-face meetups of ex-JWs?
Lots – met hundreds of ex-JW’s. And made some great friends from JWD. I would say its almost vital to physically meet people who have been or are in the same boat as you. It made a huge difference to realize a lot of others in my locality felt the same way.
Describe your circle of friends - mostly other ex-JWs or regular people?
Mostly neighbours, kids at the school parents, workmates – a few ex-JW who we will continue to keep in touch with.
Do you tell people about your JW past?
Yep – no problem there. Although why would I, if there is no specific reason? My closest friends all know.
Do you feel animosity or pity toward current JWs?
Mostly feel sorry for them as they are regular folks who for one reason or another have found themselves trapped in a very tedious religion. It’s an interesting question as to who thrives in this type of authoritarian group, and why certain personality types seem to be drawn to membership.
How do you respond to witnesses when they call at your door?
They don’t. I was an RV for a while in LA and had great fun winding them up. They stopped calling. Now they are on the street with their book stalls I will talk to them if I feel like it – with a ‘see if I can make them think differently’ approach. Not confrontational as that feeds their persecution complex.
Storm the barricades or tend to the wounded? (do you favor activism or support)
Education is your friend. I read a lot of stuff in the privacy of my home when I was exiting so I assume that creating high quality content for an unlimited online audience in a format that will last indefinitely is the best use of our time. Waving banners on the street or creating Peoples Front of Judea activist pressure groups seems to me to be limited at best and counter-productive. Possibly therapeutic for participants, but as a resource for thinking JW’s? Hmmmm.
What do you think is the most effective approach to reaching people still in?
See above – creating high quality non-judgmental content eg jwfacts or personal experiences – see JWD, freeminds etc
Do you think the WTS can or should be destroyed, will continue on as-is or grow / change?
Religious groups come and go – major movements achieve critical momentum and are unlikely to disappear anytime soon. The WTS has achieved a Tier 3 scale, and has survived 135 years give or take – unlikely to die without a black swan event. It will continue to evolve due to the nature of their religion. It’s a high control endtimes cult but unwilling to state the date. They are clearly hoping to gain converts from jw.org so will be interesting to see how the website evolves.
How has your life been impacted by your JW past?
I think I have a better perspective on some of the big questions of life. I feel well equipped to respond. I have a sense of wonder on behalf of my children as they enjoy their childhood normally. (And I met my wife via the religion)
Are there things in your life you blame the WTS for?
Their failure to respect higher education at a crucial time for me meant I didn’t go down that road. Its up to me to pursue it now if I so wish. The religion stole other parts of my childhood and teenage years that can’t really be replaced.
JW upbringing - a protection or a curse?
No justification for raising children in a cult.
How do you fill your time now it's not filled with meetings and field service?
Family stuff, eating, drinking, and carrying on. Pursuing various work-related endeavours.
Do you still have an interest in JW beliefs and doctrines?
Kind of – although a new tract campaign isn’t quite as interesting as it was 6 years ago. Massive flip-flops and bizarre new light are still interesting, although once you realize religion is BS then it all becomes relatively droll.
How much of your time is still spent on JW related matters?
Just on JWN now really – maybe 20 minutes every other day, unless there is a climate change denier needing slapped.
What do you think of the ex-JW community?
Most people are good. The ones I have met have all been decent folks. Some great friends have been made. Of course there are idiots everywhere, and maybe selecting 100% of your friends from the ex-JW community is not the best of ideas.
Do you see yourself still being associated with the ex-JW community in 5 or 10 years time?
Less and less as time goes on. I like the idea of putting something about myself fairly publically on the internet so that those who look can find me – maybe its called Facebook and LinkedIn ;-)
Do you fear the future?
Of course not. I can rouse rabbles, clear bars and verify your credentials – the future – meh.
What advice would you give to anyone starting the journey of leaving the WTS?
Educate yourself before opening your mouth to anyone. Trust no one. Fading is a long term strategy that may or may work out the way you think. Being Df’d was the best option for me as it was instant move on with your life. If you are invited to a JC politely decline without saying anything else. Its your rules now. Never DA.
What would you change in your life if you could go back and talk to yourself?
Pursue education. Stick in at school. Recognize big opportunities when you hold them. Reaching the top of your personal ladder will afford an excellent view of the bottom of someone elses.
Do you have any regrets about life since you left?
None.
Can we read your life-story anywhere? (links to online or books)
http://freeminds2.org/where-did-it-all-go-wrong/
http://www.watchtowerdocuments.com/stories/where-did-it-go-wrong.html
and on this site if you look for Posts I started.