Posts by RebelliousSpirit

145

New here

by Delta20 in

jw
friends

my name is jaron, 19 years old, i'm from the netherlands, and in about a month i am going to start joining the jw's meetings and i'm kind of looking forward to become a jw.

i can of course tell ya'll my entire spiritual story, but that would take an entire bookwork.

in a nuttshell: my father is an ex-jw, my half-sis (from an earlier marriage from my dads) is one of those "special pioneers", and i am jewish (my mom is jewish).

RebelliousSpirit

Seriously though, As I said before, I am a critic and I ask questions. And if I get baptized and they dont like me asking questions then they have a big problem... because I don't stop asking question until I get an answer (and I dont know counts as answer). And if that will disfellowship me then so be it. The people Ive met seem never to be able to do that, but reading your stories and this last post of yours really made me doubt about that (and of course people can seem like A, but can be B). But because I dont have any proof of this being the case besides your post, I'd rather experience it for myself if you dont mind. But dont worry, I'll be careful and i'll keep asking questions ;) And especially those annoying ones like "If you really are the organization of God on this earth, then why <INSERT ANY OF THE POSTS ON THIS FORUM>?" =)

Ahhh, so you're a glutton for punishment? Look, I've been studying for 6 months (finished the Knowledge book, part way through the Worship book now), I am married to a JW who was DA'd for 8 years, his entire family are JWs. I came into this wanting it to be the truth so that I could make my husband and his family happy, and so that I could better my relationship with God. But in 6 months I went from being VERY sure initially of things I was learning (the first 3 months, it sounded GREAT), to being VERY unsure and having a thousand more questions than ever before (the last 3 months, it does not sound so "great" the more I learn).

Like you, I am a critic and I ask questions - lots of questions. I take nothing for granted. And I could probably "do this" if it weren't for the slightly (haha) problematic issue of potentially being DF'd for making decisions contrary to what the WTS teaches, for not agreeing with everything 110%, for doing something I feel is "innocent" but they feel is "wicked", and the list goes on. And I will NOT be a member of an organization such as this if I can't give of myself 110%. Not to mention the fact that I have 2 children to think of - this means THEIR future as well - if I raise them in "the truth" that will set the stage for the course of their entire life, for the potential for great heartache if they don't measure up to "JW standards" - and that's not a price I'm willing to pay.

I told my husband the other night that right now I feel I cannot be a JW because of PRINCIPLE. That's the bottom line. For example: I spent a number of years as a volunteer for AIDS Community Resources. Recently I decided that I would like to start volunteering there again, and I was accepted in a wonderful position as a Youth Group Facilitator for the Gay/Les/Bi/TG/Q youth support group. I am so excited and honored to be a part of this. But do you think the brothers and sisters will be as happy for me as I am, considering the "topic" at hand? I think not. How unfortunate for them. Preaching the "good news of the kingdom" is not the only worthwhile work in today's world. They might be waiting for the "new system" to fix the issues plaguing our society - but in the meantime, for example, what happens to those ones who need a light at the end of their tunnel NOW?

Like I said ... forget doctrinal discrepancies, forget the "is this the truth or not" game ... for me it all boils down to principles - and I am not willing to compromise mine.

56

to all parents..please please answer...

by gotcha in

hello it's been a long time since i was here just needed some input please from all loving parents...would you rather your daughter be:

1. married to a guy who's not really that great (history of having lotsa women, irresponsible) but seems to love/like your daughter.

2. be gay (with woman who is quite good, responsible and everything but - a woman...).

RebelliousSpirit

hello joyzabel (did you change your nick)...im not that great now...it's really been a long time......
thank you to all who have answered..im really a confused person right now...im just trying to see from a parent's point of view..i wonder why what's happening is so very much different from the responses i got.
it's hard when we hurt the people we love...sometimes it's better just to disappear and dont cause them too problems or shame

Hmmm ... with that said, I see now. My advice to the parent stands, of course.

And my advice to the daughter ... it is hard when we hurt the people we love. But sometimes that is entirely out of our control - people can be hurt by our actions because of how they choose to respond to those actions. That doesn't mean we are the one in the wrong. This daughter - she needs to be true to herself, true to her heart - in order to ever be truly happy. There are some wonderful counselors and support groups to help with this very issue. As a matter of fact I recently volunteered to be the Facilitator for a Gay/Les/Bi/TG/Ques Youth Group. This daughter ... she doesn't have to be alone in this. And it can work out. Dead is never a solution (a permanent solution to a temporary problem, remember that).

PM me anytime if you'd like to talk more.

56

to all parents..please please answer...

by gotcha in

hello it's been a long time since i was here just needed some input please from all loving parents...would you rather your daughter be:

1. married to a guy who's not really that great (history of having lotsa women, irresponsible) but seems to love/like your daughter.

2. be gay (with woman who is quite good, responsible and everything but - a woman...).

RebelliousSpirit

even if u were sure she was just destroying herself....would u still want her to live and continue making a mess out of her life?

Just my humble opinion but ...

It is her life to "make a mess" out of. Your job as her mother is to be there to help pick up the pieces.

56

to all parents..please please answer...

by gotcha in

hello it's been a long time since i was here just needed some input please from all loving parents...would you rather your daughter be:

1. married to a guy who's not really that great (history of having lotsa women, irresponsible) but seems to love/like your daughter.

2. be gay (with woman who is quite good, responsible and everything but - a woman...).

RebelliousSpirit

there's another option which i forgot...would you rather that she were:
5. dead

What kind of choice is that??

Food for thought: Do you know how HIGH the incidence of suicide is among homosexuals who have no support system?? Approximately 1 in 3 teen suicides are gay/lesbian!! Who wants their child to be a damn statistic for ANY reason, particularly for one that could have been prevented with a little unconditional love and acceptance??

56

to all parents..please please answer...

by gotcha in

hello it's been a long time since i was here just needed some input please from all loving parents...would you rather your daughter be:

1. married to a guy who's not really that great (history of having lotsa women, irresponsible) but seems to love/like your daughter.

2. be gay (with woman who is quite good, responsible and everything but - a woman...).

RebelliousSpirit

2. be gay (with woman who is quite good, responsible and everything but - a woman...)

No doubt in my mind, 110%, that's what I would choose if that is what made my child happy. The happiness and emotional well-being of my sons is of the utmost importance to me . My love for them is unconditional. Their sexual orientation is inconsequential.

A little advice from one mother to another - this isn't about you, mom ... this is about your daughter. Love her. The rest will fall into place, and you will both be MUCH happier for it.

145

New here

by Delta20 in

jw
friends

my name is jaron, 19 years old, i'm from the netherlands, and in about a month i am going to start joining the jw's meetings and i'm kind of looking forward to become a jw.

i can of course tell ya'll my entire spiritual story, but that would take an entire bookwork.

in a nuttshell: my father is an ex-jw, my half-sis (from an earlier marriage from my dads) is one of those "special pioneers", and i am jewish (my mom is jewish).

RebelliousSpirit

Anyone else find it odd that Delta responded to all posts after mine, but not mine?

Apparently the subject of my post didn't leave enough room for debate or defense on his part?

Makes ya wonder ...

19

Spies in the congregation

by chappy in

jw
friends

the article that bothered me the most was when they said if you work in a doctors office you must report to the elders if a brother or sister comes to the doctor with a (questionable) problem..

i read this comment by galaxy7 in an older post, never heard this before.

does anyone know which publication?.

RebelliousSpirit

This came up at book study last night and the conductor specifically said that a person will be held blood guilty if they do not report known "wrongdoing" on the part of another JW.

The whole thing REALLY agitated me - my life is just that, MINE, thankyouverymuch.

40

Not Having Kids in 'This System....'

by lonelysheep in

jw
friends

one of my former bs conductors and her husband decided when they got married, they wouldn't have any kids 'in this system'.

i know the world could be better, but i see no reason not to have children if that's what your wishes really are....and you're able to for that matter.

she just turned 34 and really wants to have a child.

RebelliousSpirit

One of my former bs conductors and her husband decided when they got married, they wouldn't have any kids 'in this system'. I know the world could be better, but I see no reason not to have children if that's what your wishes really are....and you're able to for that matter. She just turned 34 and really wants to have a child.
Did you or anyone you know subscribe to this thought, and what was the end result? Were you/they happy with this decision?

Haha! Funny you mention this, it recently came up as an issue for me. A few of the sisters in the hall recently made the remark that they'd decided not to have children "in this system". Being that I have 2 children, I had to ask what the deal is. Both said that they don't want to bring children up in "Satan's system" because of all of the pressures, as well as because of the very conflicts I am currently facing (transfusion or no, for example). Ah .. so the truth comes out - it's real easy to tell someone not to allow their children to have a tranfusion when you will never face that decision yourself, and you specifically choose not to have children to avoid that very decision. Heh.

The one sister I talked to about it the other day got very choked up while talking about her and her husband's decision not to have children "in this system". She said she desperately loves and wants children, and if she got pregnant she'd be happy. It seemed to me that this is one decision she struggles with, bigtime. I think that is the case for many who also make this decision - the sister said it is a "huge sacrifice" to decide not to have children when you want them, but it keeps her and her husband free to dedicate themselves to the ministry and traveling "where the need is greater" if necessary. I don't know. The conversation led me to feel that these people are making martyrs out of themselves, and are not truly happy making this decision. But that's just my take on it.

I couldn't imagine my life without my kids. My husband and I knew we wanted kids from day one - and "this system" or not, raising a family together is a beautiful, unifying, joyful experience. Ah yes, the same sister said she was told that when you have children it changes your relationship with your husband, you see him very differently, you love him differently. She said she wishes she could experience that deepening of her love for him. I honestly told her that she's missing out in that department because I know for me that my love for my husband has deepened dramatically since having our children. There's just something about creating these beautiful little human beings with the man you love, seeing him interact as a loving father, and raising them together - I wouldn't trade it for the world.

145

New here

by Delta20 in

jw
friends

my name is jaron, 19 years old, i'm from the netherlands, and in about a month i am going to start joining the jw's meetings and i'm kind of looking forward to become a jw.

i can of course tell ya'll my entire spiritual story, but that would take an entire bookwork.

in a nuttshell: my father is an ex-jw, my half-sis (from an earlier marriage from my dads) is one of those "special pioneers", and i am jewish (my mom is jewish).

RebelliousSpirit

First of all, if its true what it says about having to stop studying and only being able to read and talk about WT articles or WT-pro articles when you are baptized, is thats true then that is a very bad doctrine and I would surely fight it. So if that is true, I must say that you are totally right that that is a big flaw. It means that the organization, on a very high level, doesnt listen to its own religion (which says that knowledge is a good thing). But heres the thing, and I wrote this before.... In my experience this is not the case, and I cannot test the claim that it is the case for I have not been baptized yet. And Of course I could take your word for it, but theres always 2 sides to a story. What do you think a JW would say, lets say an Elder, when I asked him if that were true? =)

I'll tell you exactly what a JW would say. I am currently studying with the Presiding Overseer's wife. Last night in our bookstudy, the PO asked the following question regarding one of Questions for Meditation in Chapter 24, "So how would we deal with someone who has doubts or questions?" The scripture referenced was Jude 22-23: "Also, continue showing mercy to some that have doubts; save [them] by snatching [them] out of the fire. But continue showing mercy to others, doing so with fear, while you hate even the inner garment that has been stained by the flesh".

His wife, my study conductor, answered this way: "While it's our obligation to show mercy to someone having doubts because we want to save them from "the fire", we should do so with fear that they might pollute our thinking if we're not careful. Thus we want to keep a safe distance from that person and limit our contact with them, because it could mean our life".

Her answer made me laugh out loud because I am her study - thus, she just admitted to having to "keep a safe distance" from me because I am questioning and have yet to accept everything I've learned from the JWs.

The PO then said something to the effect of, "Right. And we want to keep in mind that there might be those ones in the congregation who are demonstrating doubts or a questioning spirit - we want to show love to them by trying to "snatch them from the fire" because by questioning their life is in danger. However, it is important that we maintain a safe distance from these ones so as not to be stumbled, it is often necessary then to remove such ones who continue in such a spirit of doubt".

So there you have it - that is how an Elder and his wife would answer your question. In short, carefully try to answer someone who has doubts or questions because Jehovah obligated us to try to save their life, but consider that person a danger to yourself and the congregation. And if they continue on questioning, remove said danger so as not to pollute anyone else's thinking.

As a study, I wasn't particularly thrilled with those answers.

42

I'm thinking of going back

by Smoky in

jw
friends

over the weekend my cousin came to visit from mi, and her husband (elder) started to do his shepperding thing with me (have not attended meetings for over 1 year), and made a compeling argument about how the holy spirit is given by god only if you attend meeting and go to field service...etc, etc.

and the whole "faith and works" issue.

it was a different angle that i have never heard before, about me being a "instrument or tool" of god...blah, blah, blah... anyhow, it got me thinking about going back...especially when things are not going to well for me right now... (he said its because i left jehovah).. how can i convince myself that this is not true?

RebelliousSpirit

You coulld say i am unstable since my divorce 08/03, battaling depression, alcoholism, low self esteem, self loathing, and occasional suicide. So of course, going back seems like a quick fix.

This statement convinces me all the more that you should seek counseling. The things that make you so unhappy originate from within. They can be repaired, and you can be happy - but you have to take the necessary steps in that direction. There is no "quick fix".