a lot of people here are laughing.
"englishman" wrote (i think):.
"hopefully this will mean that in britain if an elder harasses you before a case comes to court, the elder can be arrested for perverting the course of justice.".
Ok Dacke,
So that I do not take this thread into a different direction I will not give further examples.
I will say, however, that you should know I was born into the JWs, I was a firm believer for almost 54 years. You may not have any idea of all that I have seen. I don't think "paranoid" would explain my disgust and anger for the harm the WT has done to me and my family and to many others.
Borgfree
a lot of people here are laughing.
"englishman" wrote (i think):.
"hopefully this will mean that in britain if an elder harasses you before a case comes to court, the elder can be arrested for perverting the course of justice.".
Dacke,
I fail to see where we are "entering different territory here" The case I related is a case of "abuse" and the elders orders to keep it secret. Sounds like the same old story to me.
If a person was under the influence of mind-control would he/she know it?
My answer is simple, all, or almost all, JWs are under the influence of mind-control. In my daughters case, I must take a large share of the blame for teaching her to trust a corporation that uses such tactics.
Borgfree
a lot of people here are laughing.
"englishman" wrote (i think):.
"hopefully this will mean that in britain if an elder harasses you before a case comes to court, the elder can be arrested for perverting the course of justice.".
Dacke,
Your comment:
If I was in that situation, I wouldn't hesitate for a MOMENT to go to the Police.
Makes me remember how many times I have heard a JW make that kind of a statement after the Watchtower Corporation has changed their prouncement on a matter.
I was involved in a matter once, where my daughter went to her elders for help concerning her husbands physical abuse. Nothing was done, except, she was warned not to tell her father or mother about it or action would be taken against her.
She is still a loyal JW who will now have nothing to do with me. Interesting how well mind control works.
Borgfree
guess i hadn't been paying "close attention" at the meetings a few years ago......apparently, jesus is not the mediator between god and men like the bible says, he's only the mediator between the 144,000 and jehovah - i guess the rest of us can go straight to hell in a handbasket...... .
how long has this bizarre theory been around??!!
i was absolutely stunned to hear this one, as i had never heard it before.
You may be right Blondie,
I have had some "brothers" say some stupid things to me in the past, I do not know where they got their information. I did not, I should say, follow the counsel, I kept using Father. No elder ever approached me with further counsel, so, I don't know what the whole story was.
I notice that your quote, the second one, is from 1974, I think the case I referred to was before that date.
I will mention also, that when I started realizing just how much Jesus had done for us, and how he must have been more than we believed, that was when, I think, my eventual exodus from the WT began.
Borgfree
Edited by - borgfree on 12 July 2002 15:17:4
guess i hadn't been paying "close attention" at the meetings a few years ago......apparently, jesus is not the mediator between god and men like the bible says, he's only the mediator between the 144,000 and jehovah - i guess the rest of us can go straight to hell in a handbasket...... .
how long has this bizarre theory been around??!!
i was absolutely stunned to hear this one, as i had never heard it before.
Hi Gopher,
I take it the "brother" who "counselled" you maybe didn't like you very much?
That's probably true, I was somewhat of a rebel and "troublemaker"
I think their idea is that the bible is written only to the 144,000 anyway, so certain things in the bible do not apply to the GC. They can of course use that to their benefit anytime they want, and then, beat the GC with the bible anytime they want too. They can have it both ways.
Borgfree
guess i hadn't been paying "close attention" at the meetings a few years ago......apparently, jesus is not the mediator between god and men like the bible says, he's only the mediator between the 144,000 and jehovah - i guess the rest of us can go straight to hell in a handbasket...... .
how long has this bizarre theory been around??!!
i was absolutely stunned to hear this one, as i had never heard it before.
I don't know when they started that teaching Mary, but it has been like, secret teaching, for a long time. (many years)
Also, I was counseled once, about 25 years ago, for addressing Jehovah as Father in my cong. prayer. I was told He was not Father to the "Great Crowd".
Borgfree
elders and culpability revisited.
since the issue keeps coming up no matter what (watchtower ingrained in all jws the position elders had and how no one should question the elders.
on the other hand, we should all turn in errant publishers).. i would like to say first that i have said some harsh words on the subject, to amazing and to marvin shilmer and to jst2laws and hillary_step (i read the book "into thin air" and i know what that means now!!).
Larc,
I can see that and will agree with you. That particular time was important to me and the topic is a sore spot. It added to a long string of elder related snubs I have experienced. I promise I will try not to bring it up again. (Today anyway.)
Borgfree
elders and culpability revisited.
since the issue keeps coming up no matter what (watchtower ingrained in all jws the position elders had and how no one should question the elders.
on the other hand, we should all turn in errant publishers).. i would like to say first that i have said some harsh words on the subject, to amazing and to marvin shilmer and to jst2laws and hillary_step (i read the book "into thin air" and i know what that means now!!).
Thanks Dungbeetle,
I again agree wtih you. I have said things in the past that I wish I had not said, on a board like this people cannot see your expressions, etc. and cannot tell if you have a weird sense of humor (like me) so they take you wrong at times.
Borgfree
elders and culpability revisited.
since the issue keeps coming up no matter what (watchtower ingrained in all jws the position elders had and how no one should question the elders.
on the other hand, we should all turn in errant publishers).. i would like to say first that i have said some harsh words on the subject, to amazing and to marvin shilmer and to jst2laws and hillary_step (i read the book "into thin air" and i know what that means now!!).
Hi dungbeetle,
I agree with most of what you say. I think that some ex-elders do themselves no good by their current attitudes. I posted a reply on a similar thread some months ago. The ex-elder had made the point that he ignores negative comments, I replied that I had found the elders to have that same kind of attitude when I was in the org.
The ex-elder chose to ignore my post. That kind of attitude does not make me feel very good about either an active elder or an ex-elder.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=19142&page=2&site=3
Borgfree
this just makes me ill...beating a child becaase he didn't take bible study seriously.... .
sincerely,.
district overbeer
Hi SS,
I have a hard time disagreeing with you. I do not know how to explain the OT and how it fits with the NT. I know that Jesus quoted from the OT, in fact that was the only holy writings around at that time as far as the Jews were concerned, I think. He seemed to accept the OT as the word of God.
But, when He was on earth he told His followers to stop preventing the children from coming to Him. He held them in His arms and loved them. Can anyone see Him, having a man hold a child down, while He beat the child? Unthinkable. It would never happen. We who are Christian, must follow His example if we are to claim to be His followers.
Borgfree
