the underlying assumption of the apostasy is that if the watchtower falls short to a significant degree then it cannot be jehovahs organization.
thats why apostates are hopeful that if enough fault can be found with the organization and brought to the attention of the faithful, then they too will accept the conclusion that jehovahs witnesses are not who we say we are.
unquestionably, many have been stumbled over a multitude of stumbling blocks.
ChristianObserver,
You got a lot of doubletalk, (doublespeak) from You Know. What Christendom is to the Watchtower Society is every Christian religion - except, Jehovah's Witnesses - But to most Jehovah's Witnesses Christendom has come to mean "every" religion except Jehovah's Witnesses.
Borgfree
"We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home." Edward R. Murrow
the underlying assumption of the apostasy is that if the watchtower falls short to a significant degree then it cannot be jehovahs organization.
thats why apostates are hopeful that if enough fault can be found with the organization and brought to the attention of the faithful, then they too will accept the conclusion that jehovahs witnesses are not who we say we are.
unquestionably, many have been stumbled over a multitude of stumbling blocks.
I congratulate all you posters. This thread has been read almost 800 times already. I am sure many of those, must be JWs looking for answers. I think the evidence you have presented has been outstanding. You will never know how many you may have helped. In the long run, maybe even YK.
Borgfree
"We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home." Edward R. Murrow
the underlying assumption of the apostasy is that if the watchtower falls short to a significant degree then it cannot be jehovahs organization.
thats why apostates are hopeful that if enough fault can be found with the organization and brought to the attention of the faithful, then they too will accept the conclusion that jehovahs witnesses are not who we say we are.
unquestionably, many have been stumbled over a multitude of stumbling blocks.
You paint a pretty picture of the organization, You Know. However, your picture is just like the "whitewashed graves" spoken of in the Holy Bible.
Two very serious wrongs in your story.
#1 and most importantly is that the organization does not recognize the Christ for who He really is, and they lie about Him. That's serious.
#2 the organization fully fits the description given in Deuteronomy of a false prophet. They, and you cannot escape that.
For those reasons alone, we should help everyone we can to get out of "her"
Borgfree
"We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home." Edward R. Murrow
at this late, middle stage of my life, i've started wondering, now that i know what i know, about the things in my life that i "lived" with.
having been raised all my life in the "borg" i have known nothing else.
when questions began forming years ago, it started me thinking.
This is probably the hardest topic I could respond to. I cannot respond fully. As I have written before, I was born in our house, that was being used as a kingdom hall. We moved from that house when I was two years old, so I can tell when some things happened because of that fact.
Sometime, before I was two years old, my father, in his zeal for the organization, was trying to prepare us for the persecution ahead. I remember seeing our table covered with pictures of the bodies of the Jewish people in Nazi Germany. I do not remember the exact words but the idea was instilled in my siblings and me, that something similar would happen to us before the end of the system.
I think that the upbringing I had in the organization has been responsible for just about everything in my life, really, how could it not?
There were many times when I did wrongs in my life, thinking, "I will not live in the new world anyway, what difference does it make if I do right or wrong" I could never be good enough to please Jehovah.
There were times, even when very young, when I was forced to go from door to door, or to meetings, etc. when things happened that embarrassed me so much I will not even talk about them now. Times when I was sick etc.
I realize that the organization may not have been directly responsible for some of those things, but they were constantly telling their followers that the end was very near and we must put the preaching and other organizational matters above everything else. My parents took those teachings very seriously, so they of course, acted accordingly.
Some of you are not old enough to know how things were back in the 40s etc. the organization was a lot different back then, much stricter, more demanding, more blunt. We were living in a time of persecution because the second world war was going on, and there was very great patriotism in our country. Later there was the threat of communism, being called a commumist by people at the doors, in school, and elsewhere.
There is so much that comes to mind, we would never need the education, the end was too close. How does a child take education seriously, when the child is raised with that attitude?
I could write a very long book, that is of course, if I had the education to actually use proper sentence, paragraph, structure.
Even worse, I was somewhat like that with my own children.
Just a few thoughts that I hope may help someone.
Borgfree
"We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home." Edward R. Murrow
what is your favorite verse of song?.
what bands do you like?.
what are some of your all time favorite song?.
It's really easy to pick on the faults of Christians. We Christians are a very sinful lot, that's why we need a Savior.
I am personally very thankful for all of those "hypocrites" who fought and even gave their lives, maybe even sometimes singing "Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition" while serving their country and at the same time honoring God.
I wonder where we ex-JWs and JWs would be today if not for those "hypocrites"? Maybe we would not even have been born.
But, if it makes some happy to call those brave men names, then by all means, be happy.
Borgfree
"We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home." Edward R. Murrow
will be june 14-16--food is great where: the chinquapin conference center in pinecrest, calif. call: 1-800-379-5070 or 916-776-4705 for reservations....(i am so sweet to post this 4 him....)
Will you be there Queenie? If so I will see you there. Several good speakers, including the Creteans (sp) the one who made the "Jehovah's Witnesses" video.
Borgfree
"We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home." Edward R. Murrow
what is your favorite verse of song?.
what bands do you like?.
what are some of your all time favorite song?.
The one with the most meaning to me is "Amazing Grace", also "How Great Thou Art".
In newer music I like "The Anchor Holds" Ray Boltz.
After that I like a lot of old and new Christian music.
Borgfree
"We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home." Edward R. Murrow
well at 29 years old, after a lifelong relationship/belief in/association with a higher power i called god, here i am very close to taking an athiestic or agnostic approach to the rest of my life.
it really hit me the other day although my doubts have been there but i just have been forcing myself to ignore them because i was afraid to give up that religious part of me because its all that i have ever been and i was afraid of the unknown.
but i realized after getting through another one of those weeks from hell that it makes no difference how much i pray or how much i believe.
Flower,
I do not know how much you know about "mouthy" but I can assure you she has been through some very hard times. One time even effected me so much that I was somewhat stumbled for a while, but, I think mouthy would only encourage you, as she has in fact done.
I have had some very hurtful disappointments myself. I am not saying these things to minimize your troubles, but to just say you are not alone.
Along with the troubles I mentioned above, have been some truely outstanding "blessings" I am sure mouthy would agree with me.
No one has the answers to many of the things that happen to us or to others. I think maybe one of the answers would be the scripture (I will make a stab at it from memory) "Satan has demanded to have you, to sift you as wheat"
I could give you many stories like the one Double Edge just gave, but, as I suspected, such stories are not well received.
Hang in there, maybe things will change for the better for you soon.
Borgfree
"We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home." Edward R. Murrow
i've been studying with the jw's for about a year now.
i know that by nature (or nurture!
) i have an addictive personality so i have tried to be real careful that i'm doing the right thing by getting involved with them.
Hi Meow921,
You have certainly gotten a lot of good responses. There are some great posters on this forum who can pull up quotes and materials in an instant, it seems. I would only like to add my personal experience.
My father and mother became JWs (Bible Students) in the early 1920s, I was born into the organization. I truely believed that the Jehovah's Witnesses were God's only channel to the people of earth. I believed it until I was 54 years old.(blame it on a hard head)
Throughout my life I had questions, now and then, but was always told, and believed, "leave it up to Jehovah, He will straighten it all out, in time" I finally discovered God will not straighten out a group that is not and has never been His organization.
You Know makes a lot of statements that he doesn't really know the truth about. He says he has been a (WT) believer for 25 years. I was a (WT) believer for my entire life until I was 54 yrs. old. I know old teachings, personally, that You Know would probably deny.
You Know says that ex-jws are immoral. Many on this forum are better God loving Christians now, than they ever were as Watchtower followers. I am one of those. I love my Lord and my God with all of my heart. I could never make that claim when I was a JW. I WAS immoral at one time in my life, when I was a JW. I will put PART of the blame for my immorality on the teachings of the Watchtower Society.
You Know says that "apostates" (I fit the Watchtower description of that word) use "lies" and "half truths" That is a claim the JWs have used for a long time (it is interesting that polititions and many others use that same claim when they are confronted with facts they cannot defend) But, when do they quote or specify what those "lies" and "half truths" are?
I think they (intentionally) confuse ex-jws with other opposers. When I was a JW, I would hear people say "Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe in Jesus Christ" Every JW or ex-JW knows that is not true. However I will tell you that the JWs do not believe in the SAME Jesus Christ that Christians believe in. Christians do NOT believe Jesus is Michael the archangel. Christians do NOT believe that Jesus is a creature, created by God.
The fact is (because I lived my life as a JW and I know)JWs use lies and deception to cover their wrongs, false prophesies, and false teachings.
Pay close attention to what the people here tell you, they have "been there" They Know.
Borgfree
"We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home." Edward R. Murrow
howdy, this is to try out our new "desperately seeking" forum -----some of us who have moved over the years......or are just not free to say outloud "i don't wanna be a jw!!!".
soooooooooo, i grew up in indianapolis, in - stayed until i was 30, primarily irvington congregation on 21st street (eastside) - anybody around there?
then kokomo cong.
Hi,
Actually my home was Richmond, but I lived in Indianapolis for a couple of years as a teenager. I doubt that any of you were around then. I think my KH was called the SW unit. It was on Washington St.
Borgfree
"We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home." Edward R. Murrow
