Posts by TheListener

7

Demons and inanimate objects

by TheListener in

jw
friends

in another thread vm44 asked if there was any biblical precedent to a demon attaching itself to an inanimate object.. no one answered on that thread yet.

i don't recall any such thing being in the bible.. does anyone have a scripture that shows the demons can attach or demonize an inanimate object?.

if not, then it really does seem plausible that the wts are using the demons just like other religions may use hellfire.

TheListener

I searched various Christian sites online. It seems that most christians do not feel that inanimate objects can be demon posessed. Some fundamentalists do.

I found the following information in a christian discussionf forum. The information comes from the book Protecting Your Home From Spiritual Darkness by Chuck Pierce.

ddDeuteronomy 5:6 'I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 7 'You shall have no other gods before Me. 8 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 9 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 10 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
Acts 19:18And many who had believed came confessing and telling their deeds. 19 Also, many of those who had practiced magic brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all.
He reminds us of the story of Rachel in Genesis 31,dying young "because" of the idols she stole and hid, and the story in Joshua 7 of Israel's defeat in the battle of Ai because Achan took and hid forbidden objects after being specifically instructed by God not to do so.

The scriptural support appears somewhat strained. A separate poster said this about the presented scriptural evidence:

Mr. Pierce is flat out wrong. All the examples you listed were examples of idolatry or blatant disobedience coupled with covetiousness. It was the actions of the person that caused the problem, not the object itself.

Deuteronomy 5discusses idolatry.
Rachel died because she stole idols with the intent of worshiping them. Also, the curse came from her husband, not from a demon or a society. Also, to further destroy Mr. Pierce's use of this verse to buttress his point, notice that Rachel died DESPITE having removed the idols, cleansed herself, and building an altar
It was the condition of Rachel's heart in relation to the idols that caused the curse to come true.
[*]Demons can and do inhabit inanimate objects
I find no scripture stating anything like that.
[*]Destroying objects can free your household and your family from demonic influence
Again, the object is not what causes the presence of a demon, it is the action of the person. When we resist the devil, (not when we go through the house destroying inanimate objects) he flees.

James 4:7to "Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you."

I'll post more if I come across it. Has anyone searched the WT CD rom? It may provide some insight on what the WTS uses to back up their inanimate demonization belief.

10

jw's slacking off on fs?

by carla in

i hear you guys saying that often.

i find it frustrating because mine sure hasn't!

maybe it is all the jw's who have ubm's who do most of the door to door now?

Demons and inanimate objects

by TheListener in

jw
friends

in another thread vm44 asked if there was any biblical precedent to a demon attaching itself to an inanimate object.. no one answered on that thread yet.

i don't recall any such thing being in the bible.. does anyone have a scripture that shows the demons can attach or demonize an inanimate object?.

if not, then it really does seem plausible that the wts are using the demons just like other religions may use hellfire.

TheListener

In another thread VM44 asked if there was any biblical precedent to a demon attaching itself to an inanimate object.

No one answered on that thread yet. I don't recall any such thing being in the Bible.

Does anyone have a scripture that shows the demons can attach or demonize an inanimate object?

If not, then it really does seem plausible that the WTS are using the demons just like other religions may use hellfire. Scare tactic.

28

Potential Changes at Bethel...

by TheListener in

jw
friends

i posted this on another thread but it really got me thinking about how the wts could really do this:.

the wts needs to stop spending so much cash.. they have real estate but once sold and the proceeds used it offers no more value.. they need to simplify, simplify, simplify (and isn't that the mantra they recite each time they make an organizational change?).

they could: push more and more printing to the individual publishers in order to cut down on printing costs (this may only apply to developed countries but it still would result in significant savings).

TheListener

Basically a lot of witnesses are lazy. Yes, yes, yes, they work hard doing all that mama tells them to but they do it in the laziest way possible.

Most barely study or study while watching tv, field service is 70% coffee break and driving from one end of the territory to the other or doing the pioneer shuffle, meeting attendance is time to just sit back and realx in a semi comfortable chair. They appear busy on the outside (and feel busy) but in reality they're lazy.

I think printing of member only literature by the local body of elders makes more sense than my original thought of all the tracts and brochures being printed at home.

If the WTS gives the brush off to all non-trustworthy elders and COs they can implement a more progressive pushing down of management duties. Let's face it the WTS is a business. In business you want the loyalist cheap labor you can get doing the most work you can give them. The elders are primed for that position. Throw them a bone of a trip to Patterson for training, or a DC or CA talk and they're yours. Remove the CO from breathing down their neck and make one of their own locally responsilbe and again they're yours.

The elders and the core congregation members provide the peer pressure from within to keep things running on auto pilot. Members may be lazy and they may live double lives but the peer pressure (along with Disfellowshipping) maintains the pressure for outward conformity.

As far as commuter bethelite program goes - I think it will be reinstituted and expanded - but called something else. A call will go forward asking volunteers to apply and to be ready to move NEAR bethel if invited (no in bethel).

Just my opinion.

10

jw's slacking off on fs?

by carla in

i hear you guys saying that often.

i find it frustrating because mine sure hasn't!

maybe it is all the jw's who have ubm's who do most of the door to door now?

TheListener

Carla,

I've read your posts for a long time. I don't aways comment.

This is a really personal question and you can obviously choose to ignore it, but have you ever considered separation or divorce? What keeps you and your husband together?

28

Potential Changes at Bethel...

by TheListener in

jw
friends

i posted this on another thread but it really got me thinking about how the wts could really do this:.

the wts needs to stop spending so much cash.. they have real estate but once sold and the proceeds used it offers no more value.. they need to simplify, simplify, simplify (and isn't that the mantra they recite each time they make an organizational change?).

they could: push more and more printing to the individual publishers in order to cut down on printing costs (this may only apply to developed countries but it still would result in significant savings).

TheListener

I think they'll eventually push down as much printing as possible to the individual publishers or congregations.

This would include KMs and study articles of the WT.

Loyal dubs will spend whatever it takes to stay in the loop with the WTS.

Although they they won't contribute much to a faceless WTS they will pay to visit bethel or give the CO money directly or pay for food to help a local family out or pay for gasoline to attend meetings/service - they'll pay for ink cartridges.

It's all tied to salvation. Having literature is tied to salvation - anonymous contributions is not.

56

The CO asked for more contributions

by outofthebox in

jw
friends

it looks like the wt is running out of money fast.

few weeks ago we had the co visit and he told us in the ms and elders meeting that he had never seen a letter from the gb like this one, but then he went ahead and read it.

the letter basically said: "the contributions are down and there is more people in the congregation.

TheListener

I started a new topic with my above post:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/161708/1.ashx

28

Potential Changes at Bethel...

by TheListener in

jw
friends

i posted this on another thread but it really got me thinking about how the wts could really do this:.

the wts needs to stop spending so much cash.. they have real estate but once sold and the proceeds used it offers no more value.. they need to simplify, simplify, simplify (and isn't that the mantra they recite each time they make an organizational change?).

they could: push more and more printing to the individual publishers in order to cut down on printing costs (this may only apply to developed countries but it still would result in significant savings).

TheListener

I posted this on another thread but it really got me thinking about how the WTS could really do this:

What if:

The WTS needs to stop spending so much cash.

They have real estate but once sold and the proceeds used it offers no more value.

They need to simplify, simplify, simplify (and isn't that the mantra they recite each time they make an organizational change?)

They could: push more and more printing to the individual publishers in order to cut down on printing costs (this may only apply to developed countries but it still would result in significant savings). By having each publisher or congregation print it's own literature on a regular color printer major savings could be had. This would be in conjunction with offering more tracts and brochures in the ministry and less books.

With less printing being done by the WTS they could have less facilities, manpower, expenses. However, there is more to this.

As they decentralize the printing work they could focus on the work of management. Management work doesn't necessarily have to be done by in-house live in help. By expanding the commuter bethelite program they could have tons of qualified dubs (many would move from all over the country if necessary) who would live in their own home and care for their own expenses (like a pioneer) but would work full-time (or part-time) for the WTS.

Imagine the savings the WTS would have! Less live-in help means less laundry, food, cleaning, utilities, etc etc.

This could all be done by selling off the remaining Brooklyn properties and relocating to Patterson. Cheaper housing can be found near Patterson for the commuter bethelite program that would be expanded.

56

The CO asked for more contributions

by outofthebox in

jw
friends

it looks like the wt is running out of money fast.

few weeks ago we had the co visit and he told us in the ms and elders meeting that he had never seen a letter from the gb like this one, but then he went ahead and read it.

the letter basically said: "the contributions are down and there is more people in the congregation.

TheListener

The WTS has a lot of real estate money but it's all tied up in the property. They do sell properties to get a cash infusion but they can only do that on a limited basis.

They need liquid cash and the best place for them to get it is from the individual dubs around the world.

Perhaps we will see the WTS decentralize the headquarters staff even more. Less brick and mortar and more online technology.

This could go hand in hand with online literature that the dubs print off for themselves. That would push printing costs waaaaaaaaay down.

If they only needed white collar office space, they could also get rid of the need to house people full-time. Perhaps expanding the commuter bethelite program where you live nearby and commuter to bethel for work each day. They could begin a slow shift to regular 40 hour a week office workers (qualified dubs only) from the live-in bethelites that we've all come to know.

10

jw's slacking off on fs?

by carla in

i hear you guys saying that often.

i find it frustrating because mine sure hasn't!

maybe it is all the jw's who have ubm's who do most of the door to door now?

TheListener

Hey Carla,

I don't have a specific answer regarding your BM (get it, bowel movement or believing mate?) hahahaha. Anyway, I digress.

I've seen a lot of slacking off in the FS in my area.

However, a witness with an unbelieving mate often times feels it necessary to put on a strong front. In fact they are encourage to do so by the congregation. Remember, they hear a lot about how you, the unbelieving mate, can be won without a word.

I'm in a somewhat different boat. My wife knows I know the truth and have rejected it. She doesn't try to win me without a word because I've rejected the truth. But, your husband regardless of what you've said regarding the truth is still intent on showing you how great it is. - probably (imho)

Does your husband complain about the congregation? any of the friends at the hall? Do you get invited to get togethers? Does he leave literature around for you to accidentally find? Does he smile and talk about how great he feels or how happy he is - in relation to the truth? These would all be things a believing mate would do in order to win you over without a word.

So, where others may see a lessening of FS by mates or witness friends you may not see that same trend in your household.