Posts by slimboyfat

20

Round and round the not so marigoround

by Coded Logic in

i find most theist arguments to be either confused or dishonest at best.

and most of them i regard with mild annoyance.

but there is one track of thinking that is so stupid it really gets under my skin: when, in order to try and prop up "faith", people try and tear down reason and critical thinking.

slimboyfat

I mean to say the idea that consciousness arose from non-consciousness inside the universe as we know it, rather than, for example, a consciousness or a being that is not part of the universe. As Roman Williams says, not an item or thing in the universe. What Terry Eagleton calls the 'Yeti theory of God' where many atheists imagine they can use science to eliminate God as if he's some sort of mythical creature.

I am not saying the problem of evil is solved because it's old. The point Williams makes is a good one. The fact is that people in the middle of suffering often find a conception of God that works for them. Some atheists may dismiss this as "no atheists in foxholes" scenario. But that really is an impoverished and cynical view of the attempts of fellow humans to make sense of the world and suffering in a way that combines conceptions of a transcendent being.

I agree definite claims about creationism and 6000 years are stupid. I didn't think that's what we were talking about.

20

Round and round the not so marigoround

by Coded Logic in

i find most theist arguments to be either confused or dishonest at best.

and most of them i regard with mild annoyance.

but there is one track of thinking that is so stupid it really gets under my skin: when, in order to try and prop up "faith", people try and tear down reason and critical thinking.

slimboyfat

I agree synthetic statements are definitive. They are also tautologous if they are truly synthetic statements, including all of mathematics. And I agree no analystic statement is immune to revision.

Personally I don't find anything I can say about the subject of God that I would call well founded.

Provisionally I would say that existence is a mystery that seems to require some sort of explanation. And the idea that consciousness arose from nothing and has no purpose beyond the purpose it makes itself, seems like a leap of faith in some sense.

I like Rowan Williams' comment in the last video where he describes the encounter with God to a footprint in the forest. From just the footprint, you know it's big, you know it was there, it leaves an impression, but beyond that there's not much you can say for sure about it.

And it's interesting that none of the arguments "new" atheists use are anything new. The Bible itself already complains that God stands by and allows suffering. It already asks why. It already says that such a God is incomprehensible and it seems wicked. None of these observations are new. Believers incorporate these difficult problems into their questions about how God is, whereas atheists use them as a basis for saying God cannot exist or he is evil if he does exist. Sometimes it's not clear which.

236

What did President Trump say about Sweden?

by kpop in

this you will never see on the mainstream media.

before you comment watch the whole video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqaigeqxqgi.

slimboyfat

The Muslim you think might be your nice neighbour is not really your real friend anymore than the guy at the local car dealership is your friend even though he's super friendly if you go look at cars.

That's a hell of an assumption. And a nice neighbour is all I really need my Muslim next door neighbour to be.

It's also strikingly similar to what I've been reading in Laurence Rees new book Holocaust. Many Germans objected to Nazi propaganda by saying that the Jews they knew personally were good people. So the Nazis produced a propaganda campaign (poison mushrooms) that argued that some Jews pretended to be good people but Germans should not be fooled. In fact these Jews who pretended to be good and ordinary Germans were the most dangerous of all because they were hiding what they truly were. Like mushrooms that appeared harmless it was claimed they were really poisonous.

http://www.aish.com/ho/p/Personal-Accounts-During-the-Holocaust.html

20

Round and round the not so marigoround

by Coded Logic in

i find most theist arguments to be either confused or dishonest at best.

and most of them i regard with mild annoyance.

but there is one track of thinking that is so stupid it really gets under my skin: when, in order to try and prop up "faith", people try and tear down reason and critical thinking.

slimboyfat

I don't think there is anything definite we can say about anything. Like philosopher Quine said: "no statemeant is immune to revision".

Which is not the same as saying we cannot make claims and give reasons for them. The problems arise when people start saying: "this is the only legitimate answer". Such as the atheistic answer to the problem of evil for example. Or any particular theistic response for that matter.

If people are making definite statements about God I object to that too.

Science is great at answering all sorts of questions, which beguiles some into thinking it should be able to answer all important questions. Dawkins as a "professor for public understanding of science" added much confusion in this regard.

I notice that the next scientist to hold this post has attempted to remedy the situation by explaining there are questions science cannot answer, including the existence or otherwise of God.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/jun/29/what-we-cannot-know-marcus-du-sautoy-review

236

What did President Trump say about Sweden?

by kpop in

this you will never see on the mainstream media.

before you comment watch the whole video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqaigeqxqgi.

slimboyfat

I don't know if any particular interpretation makes a person "more" or "less" Muslim, either moderate or extreme.

What I said is that claiming the only "good" kind of Muslim is an apostate or ex-Muslim is an attempt to stigmatise anyone who claims to be a Muslim by forcing them either to renounce the identity or by categorising them as not "good".

236

What did President Trump say about Sweden?

by kpop in

this you will never see on the mainstream media.

before you comment watch the whole video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqaigeqxqgi.

slimboyfat

"Crusade" is in quotation marks to indicate a quotation - from Bush. He stopped using the word when he was told it was politically inconvenient.

236

What did President Trump say about Sweden?

by kpop in

this you will never see on the mainstream media.

before you comment watch the whole video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqaigeqxqgi.

slimboyfat

Jesus said if we don't hate mother and father and brother and sister, we are not his followers. Forsake them. Let the dead bury the dead. Don't look at the things behind. It's a prominent theme of the gospels.

If you are going to insist a real Muslim must follow extreme verses, why do you excuse Christians from the same?

A moderate Muslim has an enlightened view of the text, just the same as a Christian does.

There is as much scope to carve a violent interpretation of the Bible as there is the Quran, as two thousand years of history testifies.

236

What did President Trump say about Sweden?

by kpop in

this you will never see on the mainstream media.

before you comment watch the whole video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqaigeqxqgi.

slimboyfat

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/5373525/Tony-Blair-believed-God-wanted-him-to-go-to-war-to-fight-evil-claims-his-mentor.html

The Bible gets better? In the NT Jesus said he brought a sword not peace, and to turn family members against one another. The last book Revelation says those who don't fall down and worship God and his lamb will be destroyed, and repeats it using various violent images.

236

What did President Trump say about Sweden?

by kpop in

this you will never see on the mainstream media.

before you comment watch the whole video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqaigeqxqgi.

slimboyfat

You seem to be confusing "things people chose to do" with "things people do because their religion commands it".

Nope.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa

14

The Study edition of Luke NWT Now on JW.ORG...great, now they dig even deeper into the pile of muck

by NikL in

jw
friends

so had to check it out to see what it's all about.. what i got was more cloudiness.

as in luke 2:9.... suddenly jehovah’s angel stood before them, and jehovah’s glory gleamed around them, and they became very fearful.

the notes point out.... jehovah’s angel: this expression occurs many times in the hebrew scriptures, starting at ge 16:7. when it occurs in early copies of the septuagint, the greek word agʹge·los (angel; messenger) is followed by the divine name written in hebrew characters.

slimboyfat

The appendix says:

Recognized Bible translators have used God’s name in the Christian Greek Scriptures. Some of these translators did so long before the New World Translation was produced. These translators and their works include: A Literal Translation of the New Testament . . . From the Text of the Vatican Manuscript, by Herman Heinfetter (1863); The Emphatic Diaglott, by Benjamin Wilson (1864); The Epistles of Paul in Modern English, by George Barker Stevens (1898); St. Paul’s Epistle to the Romans, by W. G. Rutherford (1900); The New Testament Letters, byJ.W.C.Wand, Bishop of London (1946). In addition, in a Spanish translation in the early 20th century, translator Pablo Besson used “Jehova ́ ” at Luke 2:15 and Jude 14, and nearly 100 footnotes in his translation suggest the divine name as a likely rendering. Long before those translations, Hebrew versions of the Christian Greek Scriptures from the 16th century onward used the Tetragrammaton in many passages. In the German language alone, at least 11 versions use "Jehovah” (or the transliteration of the Hebrew “Yahweh”) in the Christian Greek Scriptures, while four translators add the name in parentheses after “Lord.” More than 70 German translations use the divine name in footnotes or commentaries.