The Study edition of Luke NWT Now on JW.ORG...great, now they dig even deeper into the pile of muck

by NikL 14 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  NikL

  So had to check it out to see what it's all about.

  What I got was more cloudiness.

  As in Luke 2:9...

  Suddenly Jehovah’s angel stood before them, and Jehovah’s glory gleamed around them, and they became very fearful

  The notes point out...

  Jehovah’s angel: This expression occurs many times in the Hebrew Scriptures, starting at Ge 16:7. When it occurs in early copies of the Septuagint, the Greek word agʹge·los (angel; messenger) is followed by the divine name written in Hebrew characters. That is how the expression is handled at Zec 3:5, 6 in a copy of the Septuagint found in a cave in Nahal Hever, Israel, in the Judean desert. This fragment is dated between 50 B.C.E. and 50 C.E. It is noteworthy that when later copies of the Greek Septuagint replaced the divine name with Kyʹri·os in this and many other verses, the definite article was not included where it would be expected according to standard grammatical usage. This may be another indication that Kyʹri·os replaces the divine name here and in similar contexts. A number of Bible translations retain the divine name when rendering the expression “Jehovah’s angel” in this verse.—See App. C.

  So I had to see for myself all the "many translations that render it "Jehovah's Angel".

  Know how many I found?

  Zilch!

  Take Bible hub for example...

  
  

  New International Version
  An angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified.
  
  New Living Translation
  Suddenly, an angel of the Lord appeared among them, and the radiance of the Lord's glory surrounded them. They were terrified,
  
  English Standard Version
  And an angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were filled with great fear.
  
  Berean Study Bible
  Just then, an angel of the Lord stood before them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified.
  
  Berean Literal Bible
  And an angel of the Lord stood by them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they feared with great fear.
  
  New American Standard Bible
  And an angel of the Lord suddenly stood before them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them; and they were terribly frightened.
  
  King James Bible
  And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
  
  Holman Christian Standard Bible
  Then an angel of the Lord stood before them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified.
  
  International Standard Version
  An angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified.
  
  NET Bible
  An angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were absolutely terrified.
  
  New Heart English Bible
  And suddenly an angel of the Lord stood by them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified.
  
  Aramaic Bible in Plain English
  And behold, the Angel of God came to them and the glory of THE LORD JEHOVAH shone upon them and they were greatly afraid;
  
  GOD'S WORD® Translation
  An angel from the Lord suddenly appeared to them. The glory of the Lord filled the area with light, and they were terrified.
  
  New American Standard 1977
  And an angel of the Lord suddenly stood before them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them; and they were terribly frightened.
  
  Jubilee Bible 2000
  And, behold, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the clarity of the Lord shone round about them, and they feared greatly.
  
  King James 2000 Bible
  And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were much afraid.
  
  American King James Version
  And, see, the angel of the Lord came on them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
  
  American Standard Version
  And an angel of the Lord stood by them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
  
  Douay-Rheims Bible
  And behold an angel of the Lord stood by them, and the brightness of God shone round about them; and they feared with a great fear.
  
  Darby Bible Translation
  And lo, an angel of [the] Lord was there by them, and [the] glory of [the] Lord shone around them, and they feared [with] great fear.
  
  English Revised Version
  And an angel of the Lord stood by them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
  
  Webster's Bible Translation
  And lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them; and they were in great fear.
  
  Weymouth New Testament
  when suddenly an angel of the Lord stood by them, and the glory of the Lord shone round them; and they were filled with terror.
  
  World English Bible
  Behold, an angel of the Lord stood by them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified.
  
  Young's Literal Translation
  and lo, a messenger of the Lord stood over them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they feared a great fear.

  That's 25 translations. How many are there in English?

  Maybe the WTs definition of "many" is different than mine?

  Note the apendix c in the notes.

  One paragraph from that is interesting...

  The basic question that needs to be answered is this: Since the Tetragrammaton appeared in the original Hebrew text that was being quoted by the first-century Bible writers, did those writers deliberately substitute the word Kyʹri·os or The·osʹ for the Tetragrammaton each time they quoted from the “Old Testament”? Throughout the centuries, numerous Bible translators have concluded that such a substitution would not have taken place. Therefore, such translators have felt compelled to restore the divine name in their translations of the “New Testament.” The translators of the Christian Greek Scriptures of the New World Translation agree with that viewpoint

  Which "bible translators" are those? I see no evidence of it.

  There is also a footnote which reads...

  A number of scholars, however, strongly disagree with this viewpoint. One of these is Jason BeDuhn, who authored the book Truth in Translation: Accuracy and Bias in English Translations of the New Testament. Yet, even BeDuhn acknowledges: “It may be that some day a Greek manuscript of some portion of the New Testament will be found, let’s say a particularly early one, that has the Hebrew letters YHWH in some of the verses [of the “New Testament.”] When that happens, when evidence is at hand, biblical researchers will have to give due consideration to the views held by the NW [New World Translation] editors.”

  The point being that it hasn't happened.

  Lets use that argument about people that might believe the moon is made of cheese.

  If someone goes to the moon and finds it is indeed made of cheese than the scientists will have to acknowledge the viewpoint of those that said it was made of cheese.
  

  Lets say the tetragramaton was in use during the first century.

  Did they say "god" or "lord" when they read it?

  I put forward that they did. That's why the translators replaced it with kyrios.
  
• 

  ab.ortega

  Thanks for posting. I find particularly interesting the last quote you cite. The rest of the quote mentions: "When that happens, when evidence is at hand, biblical researchers will have to give due consideration to the views held by the NW editors. Until that day, translators must follow the manuscript tradition as it is currently known, even if some of its characteristics appear to us puzzling, perhaps even inconsistent with what we believe. Anything translators want to add to clarify the meaning of ambiguous passages, such as those where “Lord” might refer to either God or the Son of God, can and should be put into footnotes, while keeping the Bible itself in the words given to us.

  So, WT basically cherry picked just what they wanted to make their point. However, it seems they don't agree with the full thought of this scholar, Jason BeDuhn because they still replace "Lord" to suit their beliefs.
• 

  Crazyguy

  What's also funny is they say many other bible translations say this , so I guess thier not the only ones using gods name after all.
• 

  menrov

  On studybible.info:

  Murdock(i) 9 And lo, the angel of God came to them, and the glory of the Lord shone upon them: and they feared with great fear.

  So, an angel of God and the glory of the Lord (Jesus??)

  And found this one (WBTS very happy):

  ECB(i) 9 and behold, the angel of Yah Veh stands over them and the glory of Yah Veh haloes them: and they awe a mega awe.

  and this one:

  JMNT(i) 9 And then – look and think of this! – all at once [the] Lord's [= Yahweh's] agent (or: messenger) took a stand upon [their encampment], in the midst of them (or: stood at their [side]), and [the] Lord's [= Yahweh's] glory (Theophanous manifestation) shone (gleamed and radiated) around about them, and they became afraid [with] a great fear (= were struck with terror).

  Anyway, we do not know what the translations or copies they used in the first century. Further, if it was critical that the tetragrammaton was to remain in all translations or copies because it means life, you'd expect it to be there. A God who is capable to create humans, is very well capable to protect His name. But He did not. Moreover, the name of His Son became the most important name mentioned in the NT.

  
  
  
• 

  dropoffyourkeylee

  I would say that 99% of the JWs I know are not even aware of the issue of the NT not containing the divine name. They just don't get it.
• 

  NikL

  I would say that 99% of the JWs I know are not even aware of the issue of the NT not containing the divine name. They just don't get it.

  You got that right. My wife is completely unaware that there is a problem even though I've pointed it out to her.

  A God who is capable to create humans, is very well capable to protect His name. But He did not. Moreover, the name of His Son became the most important name mentioned in the NT.

  A similar thought went through my head during today's talk at our hall when they read 2 Peter 3:18...

  No, but go on growing in the undeserved kindness and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.
• 

  sparrowdown

  @Menrov - The wording of the second translation you cited (ECB) is a classic "... and they awe a mega awe." Lol!
• 

  AverageJoe1

  In the Kingdom Interlinear (I have the hardback version but you can download it in the JW App) you can see the literal English translation and you will see that Jehovah's name is not mentioned in many instances... and that's in one of their own publications. Most JWs won't even pick that up though.

  Ephesians 6:4 KI:

  And the fathers, not be YOU provoking to wrath the children of YOU, but be YOU nourishing out them in discipline and putting mind in of Lord. (Κυρίου)
• 

  jwleaks

  A number of Bible translations

  • New World translation
  • Revised New World translation
  • New World translation Reference Bible
  • Revised New World translation Study Edition of Luke
• 

  slimboyfat

  The appendix says:

  Recognized Bible translators have used God’s name in the Christian Greek Scriptures. Some of these translators did so long before the New World Translation was produced. These translators and their works include: A Literal Translation of the New Testament . . . From the Text of the Vatican Manuscript, by Herman Heinfetter (1863); The Emphatic Diaglott, by Benjamin Wilson (1864); The Epistles of Paul in Modern English, by George Barker Stevens (1898); St. Paul’s Epistle to the Romans, by W. G. Rutherford (1900); The New Testament Letters, byJ.W.C.Wand, Bishop of London (1946). In addition, in a Spanish translation in the early 20th century, translator Pablo Besson used “Jehova ́ ” at Luke 2:15 and Jude 14, and nearly 100 footnotes in his translation suggest the divine name as a likely rendering. Long before those translations, Hebrew versions of the Christian Greek Scriptures from the 16th century onward used the Tetragrammaton in many passages. In the German language alone, at least 11 versions use "Jehovah” (or the transliteration of the Hebrew “Yahweh”) in the Christian Greek Scriptures, while four translators add the name in parentheses after “Lord.” More than 70 German translations use the divine name in footnotes or commentaries.